<p>I'm feeling a little confused here...I ran the NPC for Michigan for my OOS DS, just for kicks, after assuring him that three isn't really a possibility of that school financially. And it came back with a number within $3000 of our in-state university. I have seen on their website that they're trying to increase their endowment to attract more OOS students, but this seems too generous. Can we trust their NPC? </p>
<p>I have double-checked the numbers and yes, our state of residency is correct.</p>
<p>If you are low income, but anticipate the possibility of increased income during the time the student is in college, you may want to try the net price calculator with the increased income levels to check whether it will still be affordable.</p>
<p>Here is the situation for UM. UM meets full need for their in state students. Yet the common data sets show about 20% of their students do NOT get full need met and that the average need met overalll is 85%. Given that Michigan is about 2/3 in state in compositions, what it means is that the 1/3 that are not instate are the cause for those numbers not being 100% as they are for schools like Notre Dame and Northwestern. </p>
<p>Now you can believe that the NPC can pick out which OOS students are not going to get full need met, or that something else determines if you are an OOSer who gets full need met. IMO the NPC calculators deal with averages, and that a more holistic method is used other than pure need to determine who gets full need or very close to it out of the OOS pool. I think an OOSer with excellent stats will be an A+ designated student by admissions, and when the file goes to fin aid, that person will get a better package than one not so highly designated. Or, perhaps, UM gives those with very high need, a full need package but gaps the students who don’t have as much. Or maybe, in order to keep those need met stats as high as possible, they give those students with low need their full need and gap those with that need a lot. Or they have their own way of doing this, like first come best served. All schools that do not have the resources to meet full need aid , have some way they gput together the packages, and some students will get full need met, and others will be gapped. I do not believe the NPCs have the detail where they can tell each student in such a category what the package for that student will be–it will be an average.</p>
<p>What the NPC result told you, is that there is a chance that UMich would give you sufficient aid to be affordable. Just as there is a chance your student would get accepted. So don’t take it off your studen’ts list, but don’t hold that NPC number as gospel truth.</p>
<p>A couple things I want to point out here. First, UMich does not guarantee need met for oos, however, they do have generous aids to low income families. You may find that as in one of their sample scenario. Second, the UMich NPC was recently migrated to CB and there was some bugs initially. I am not sure if that has been fixed. Someone has tested it with different hypothetical numbers and found a cliff somewhere that oos students would suddenly receive very little aid. I am not sure if it is a bug there or intentional. OP’s income/asset may well be below that cliff.
For OP, if the NPC does show UMich is affordable to you, there is no reason not to apply. We are from in state and we were surprised with a grant from UMich for my D that replaced all loans and work study at the end. They “do not guarantee need met” but not “guarantee no need met” for OOS students.</p>
<p>They didn’t ask for stats; they did ask for the intended major (engineering).</p>
<p>They maxed out the student loan and assumed a higher student work component than the other NPCs I’ve run ($3000), with $2444 remaining cost.<br>
So, the estimated net price is still about the same as the net price of the in-state schools that we’re looking at. The most affordable safety for us is commuting to our local state school, but if he could get into Michigan for the same price as one of the sleep-away in-state schools, that might be something to consider.</p>
<p>edited: @mom2collegekids, they listed the Pell Grant, a $27,888 U-M institutional grant, and a $12,468 U-M institutional scholarship. As I said, I’m not sure why the U-M scholarship and and grant because they didn’t ask for stats. However, other schools have asked for stats with the CB NPC so the numbers are saved in the CB system; is it possible the U-M calculator sees those even if they don’t ask directly?</p>
<p>Well, I guess UM is on the table for now. I don’t want to get his hopes up too much, but if it worked, it would be great on many levels…great engineering, family close by, and he has been a UM football fan his whole life .</p>
<p>They asked for intended major because the CoA is different. The scholarship they listed is probably still a need based one (just like those from top privates). Part of the grant my D got initially was also called “scholarship”. Nevertheless, the former NPC at UMich we used actually showed a range on everything instead of a fix number. So that number may be an average amount.</p>
<p>I wonder if the OOS admissions at UMich will get tougher if they plan on giving lots of OOS aid (sort of like what UNC and UVA do…they meet need, but if you are accepted you are likely a top student, so the aid has a sorta merit component.)</p>
<p>I think that is kinda what the UCs are doing. They are accepting top OOS students to help their stats, and giving some aid (altho not as much as it sounds UMich is doing). The UCs expect OOS people to pay EFC plus $23k per year…which for those who have EFCs of about $20k will essentially be full pay/loans at schools that cost $50k+</p>
<p>I can see more better publics doing this. If they get a top OOS applicant, why not fill gaps with merit and other aid. At my own kids’ undergrad, a top (non NMF) OOS student with a 0 EFC may not find it affordable even with free tuition, a pell grant and a 5500 loan. An extra $3-5k could make it all work. </p>
<p>This would make sense, and I’ve told DS that the freshman class profile might not apply to an OOS with high financial need. But for an engineering program of the caliber of UM, we’ll give it a shot . His CR SAT is low for the top schools, though his 800 on the US History SATII may help there, maybe? He’s taking the ACT to see if that’s better. He’s a pretty determined kid, so he’ll find his way, however it goes.</p>
<p>The admission to UMich from oos has been getting tougher already. The decrease in admission rate is mainly due to the increase in oos applicants. An estimated oos admission rate from a couple years ago was around 25% for UMich overall while in state admission rate was around double. For UMich CoE, the overall admission rate has dropped from 30% last year to 20% this year. I guess the CoE admission rate for CoE would not be too far off from Ivies.</p>
<p>I guess the CoE admission rate for CoE would not be too far off from Ivies.</p>
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<p>Do you mean: The OOS admission rate for CoE would not be too far off from Ivies?
@billcsho </p>
<p>Anyway, I doubt UMich is going to want to give away $200k in aid to an OOS low EFC student with “good” stats that don’t do anything for the school. </p>
<p>Since so many flagships have to emphasize GPA for their instate admissions (otherwise the flagships would exclude many A-student URMs from underprivileged areas), it makes sense for them to compensate for the negative impact of those low-ACT instate admits by bringing in some OOS high test score kids. </p>
<p>I don’t know this for a fact, but I suspect that the UCs weight test scores higher for OOS students. They have no reason to use their instate methodology (weighting GPA higher) for OOS students. </p>
<p>Yes, my bad. I meant the OOS admission rate for CoE would not be too far off from Ivies. UMich emphasize GPA not only for in state students. They put GPA and course rigor as very important on their CDS while scores are just important. Most students receiving financial aids do nothing for the school anyway. They just want to attract more qualified students from OOS. Now there are over 40% enrolled students from OOS. They have been raising the endowment trying to provide more aids to OOS students while the in state students have need met already. There is little support from the state government, so the money is from private donations. Remember the university is the one receiving most of the money at the end.</p>
<p>Yes, I think anecdotally there are always a few fortunate low-income highly desirable academically out of state kids who end up with very good packages from Uof M and report that fact on these forums, but it is not a given that every low-income kid will get enough aid to attend. The university has been very forthright in the press about the desire to have the revenue brought by out of state and international students. Yes they are trying to raise endowment funds to support more aid for out of state kids, but that is a long-term activity, I doubt the results will be seen in the short term. But 50,000 applications yielding 16,000 acceptances to yield around 6,000 freshman plus or minus tells you that it is quite easy to accept out of state kids and internationals who are willing to put forth the $$ it takes to attend. Most kids who are at the level of stats to get acceptances are highly desirable candidates at schools that do give tuition discounting merit money to high stats kids. You are talking about a very small portion of the OSS pool (and international pool) that garner any merit money. If a kid is out of state and cannot afford $50,000 a year the advice is pretty consistently to apply if UofM is a highly desired school, but to understand that the finances may not work out. </p>
<p>I think the net price calculators generally yield the best possible package at schools were aid is not automatic dependent on test scores and GPA - not any kind of guaranteed number since merit scholarships can often be chosen by committees, departments, etc. they are not automatic - just “possible.” </p>
<p>From UofM’s financial aid website:
</p>
<p>Remember, included in that number are the in-state students who are guaranteed to have their need met and the freshman class size is around 6,000. So again, my advice to the OP is if the OP has a high stat, high GPA student who loves UofM, have them apply and they will know in late March/mid-April what the costs will be. The best scholarships require an early application so the application needs to be complete and done, including test scores sent by end of October. </p>
<p>I don’t think the NPC are just showing “possible” but far from realistic numbers, otherwise, what is the point to have NPC. As there are other factors that would affect the financial aid, the NPC should show around the average numbers according to the input values. Merit aids are rare, particularly large ones. They will be diluted out easily even if they are included in the calculation (which I doubt).</p>
<p>UMich has been criticized for low enrollment of students from low income families. Perhaps this is how they can entice more such students to enroll, or at least make it look like they are trying to get more of them (since there probably won’t be too many applicants or admits in the low income ranges where the NPC shows good financial aid).</p>
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