Is this safety "safe" enough?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm sure your son is going to have some nice choices. I think that Seattle U is just to have in his pocket, though I have seen a number of kids who got some very nice scholarships from their safety, visited it, found some good programs there and even ended up there. My older son ended up liking his two safeties very much, a surprise because he put little thought in their selection or even thinking about the schools until the very end of the process when he was offered some excellent merit scholarships there, and felt he should at least take a look. His take was "I could go there and be happy". He did not as he did get into some schools that he had really wanted, and yes, there was a bit of prestige factor in play as well. My other son is at his safety, and it was an awakening of sorts when he finally focused on what was available there, and it became a serious option. Again the merit aid was what made him take a good look at the school, even though we would have paid the full private school cost had he wanted to go to one of those. It turned out, however, that our state school had exact combo of programs and courses he wanted whereas his other choices where not quite there, once he started asking more directed questions and getting to know how the programs were run. It took the whole admissions season to get to that point for him.</p>

<p>I don't know how much of an advantage it is to apply EA to Stanford, but I also don't know what the advantages are to apply EA to any of his other schools. Often EA does not give you your financial package until RD time. It relieves the student of the admissions question--you know you are in, but I reall think this young man is going to be admitted to those schools. What he needs is the financial part taken care of and that is more difficult. He should call and find out if there are any advantages in getting scholarship money by applying early at those schools and how much of an advange there are. Some schools will only give EAers their juiciest awards, and if that's the case, he should find another school since he wants a shot at the big merit money. That's why rolling at a school with a low state sticker price with some built in merit aid can be the financial safety. If he can get situation covered, he can then have much more flexibility with everything else.</p>

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<p>If I understand your posts correctly, you are concerned not only about an admissions safety school, but also a financial safety school. That is, you want to be sure your son is admitted somewhere that you can afford to send him. </p>

<p>Many merit awards aren't announced until March or April, after the application deadline for most colleges has passed. My son applied to two RD schools and was accepted by both in the fall. One notified him of a piddly merit award when he was accepted, but he didn't learn about the substantial awards offered by both schools until spring. </p>

<p>If your son needs significant merit aid or would prefer not to have loans which are often a large component of the financial package, he may want to add some financial safety schools to his list, i.e. schools where he is at the very top (not just top 25%) of the applicant pool and very likely to receive a large merit award. </p>

<p>You may want to contact curmudgeon here on CC. He is knowledgeable about how to identify financial safety schools and/or schools where a student is likely to receive large merit awards.</p>

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<p>Subscribe to US News Premium online edition for $15/year. It has some interesting figures for almost every school on how much aid they give out and what kinds of aid. It is under "Tuition & Financial AId" and at the bottom of the page.</p>

<p>For instance, for Whitman it indicates that of the 83% who apply for aid, only 58% are "determined to have need." Of those, 78% have full need met. There's lots more info there too.</p>

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<p>I didn't catch the state of residence, was it "thrown"? LOL And how does that 2010 SAT break-out in sub-scores?</p>

<p>From the list of schools I'd say our kids are a lot alike in what they might like about a school (the light booze thing is going to be tough). And to answer your specific question "Is Whitman safe enough?" the answer is unfortunately, no. (Edit: Actually it's not just no, it's NO.) "Is 8 or 9 is too many?" We had 14. Probably overkill and had she had the benefit of hindsight she would have dropped some incredibly similar safety-ish schools - maybe. (Then again, maybe not.;))</p>

<p>I think he needs more schools in the financial match category and to be blunt , I don't see your financial safety anywhere.</p>

<p>It is my opinion that you should concentrate all your energy there until that school is established. My D had a school (Hanover College) that she liked and had visited that would guarantee her enough merit aid that we could pay the rest with some difficulty. She knew she was going to a TOP 100 LAC that she liked from that day forward. When we found Hanover the pressure lessened by 75%. It was a very happy day.</p>

<p>There are great schools doing great things where he can be (within reason) assured of getting a merit package , or combo of need and merit that allows attendance.</p>

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<p>If your family really wants to play this game "for keeps" , and wants to make the commitment, then I think he needs 3 or 4 100% of need schools as true reaches (Stanford because it's his dream , Pomona, CMC, Emory, Williams or similar. I'd notch down just a bit if standardized testing didn't come up to Hamilton or Colgate instead of Williams. Maybe Trinity or Bates or Colby. ). </p>

<p>Then I'd have 4 or 5 schools at the admissions match/financial reach category . We won't know where that is exactly until all the tests are in but let's assume it's at the Trinity U level. </p>

<p>Then you need 4 or 5 schools at the Hanover level. Like a Lake Forest (similar to other schools on the list). Usually but not always Top 60-100 LAC's. </p>

<p>Think about the concept of reverse commute when you are trying for $. All the girls go there, a guy should apply. Seeking geo diversity? Go outside the West Coast. </p>

<p>Off the top of my head , I'd say you should look at Southwestern in Texas (it could be a much better choice $ wise than Trinity). It might be perfect and their merit awards (at all but the highest level) are mostly transparent. They want geo-diversity and need guys. I have other suggestions but let's see what you think of that one so I can check my aim.</p>

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<p>"We'd rather see if we can find a financial safety of 5K kids or less with a nice pool of sporty intellectuals who don't drink too much. How's that for specific?"</p>

<p>You MIGHT find them at Williams, but you'd have to look hard. (50%+ binge drinking rate, 29% heavy (meaning almost daily) drinkers. Whitman is hardly dry (or Pomona) but there tends to be less on the west coast than the east.</p>

<p>You might consider looking at Occidental a bit harder, especially given your son's social commitments.</p>

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<p>I agree with Curmudgeon about the financial safety. I though U of Seattle was a state school but I just peeked at its web site and found that it is not. Now many of my son's friends had catholic schools as financial safeties, but that was because the good brothers at the high school could tell you where you would get in, and about how much you would get at a number of the catholic schools. Not the biggies like ND or BC, but Canisus, Niagara, Iona, Bonaventure, Siena, Stonehill, Manhattan, St John were all pretty predictable to them, and as a result many kids who had to get aid to go to college had an easy time with financial safeties. They also tended to get a bit more of the money than their stats would indicate on a number of their schools, and I suspect it was not just divine intervention at work. But unless you are in a network like that, you can't rely on most private schools in terms of what kind of aid or scholarship you are going to get. I've seen kids who had to be waaay up there in stats that did not get much of a merit award, and others get the money that were not as academically endowed, and for no apparent reason. That's why if you need that money, you have to get a sure thing in the bag early so that you can then focus on the goodies and dream away.</p>

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<p>OK - you guys are good! Thanks for all the suggestions. We really have looked quite a lot, I don't want you to think I'm asking without doing my homework. Cur is right, what we need to concentrate on finding are a few financial safeties that he could honestly get excited about attending. We are in Oregon, and the truth is the state schools here are just not that appealing academically and culturally to him. He doesn't want to be so far from home, though, that getting back is a huge financial hardship - unless he has some "wow" factor to show for it. The schools back east/south aren't going to get a visit unless he's accepted, so he doesn't have much to go on except web research, guide books, and friends.
Cur - the 2010 is 710 verbal, 660 math, 640 writing. He was really expecting higher scores (maybe you should prep??) so he's retaking 10/14 and hoping for a boost. His only SAT II is Lit - 740. He's taking Math IIC and Bio 11/4.
Cpt - many schools he almost likes are either jesuit or religious of some type. Does anyone have experience with Univ. of Portland, Whitworth, or Westmont? S thought Westmont to be way too conservative in theology, but I'm thinking Whitworth or Gonzaga could be good.
I do have US News subscription, as many suggested,but am fishing around looking for info.
Hey Cur - We're the ones who you called your "next project" - glad you're still here! S is interested in Rhodes as well, but hearing from students there that the Greek scene is overwhelming and the city a bit difficult to navigate. How's your D doing???</p>

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<p>OP, I thought that you resembled somebody.;) Blame it on a failing memory. Duh. Well, anyway -it was a brief sabbatical. Sorry to leave you hanging. </p>

<p>Greek scene is NOT overwhelmingly possessive or exclusive , but booze? More than I would like. City gets easier to navigate. D is doing great. Loving it. Says 80% of the kids are smart and the other 20% aren't stupid. Quite an improvement over high school.;) </p>

<p>She has already been signed up for a neat NIH funded research job next semester in her field of choice and has her volunteer placement at U Of Tennessee Medical School's Hospital. That plus Ultimate Frisbee Travel Team (Vandy this week), Church Groups, Varsity basketball, salsa dancing lessons, her sorority, tough classes with profs she adores, papers every week, plus seminars.... well , she's right on schedule to burn out and join the krishnas junior year.</p>

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<p>Carolyn is the west coast guru of those sorts of schools, it seems to me. I cannot give any advice in that area. I do know that Occidental is an excellent school that gives a lot of merit money, but it also has high stats. My son visited Loyola in LA, and thought that it was a beautiful school, and it sent him lots of merit info, but I am not in that loop to give advice. If you research some of Carolyn's older posts, there's a lot of info on west coast catholic schools since her student was in a catholic highschool. I just glanced through them, as we are, at this point, even more east coast than you are as far as schools for our next one. My son who is now in college just happened to be visiting LA and decided to look at some schools there which was how he looked at Loyola.
Good luck in your search. As I said before, I'm sure he will have some good choices in college. It's the money end that is difficult, because it is even more unpredictable than admissinons.</p>

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<p>Cur - that sounds awesome! Knew your D would make the most of all there is to take in. I'd almost like my S to go there just to see if he could meet her :)</p>

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<p>Lewis and Clark gives out some very large merit awards. </p>

<p>How did the visit to claremont go?</p>

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<p>S liked Claremont, and got a better taste for Pomona. Decided CMC is his pick over Pomona and lopped off Occidental as a possible safety. His overnight in the dorm at CMC was underwhelming: S and friend both scheduled overnights and each had a hosting student assigned. Friend's overnight host never showed up, so my S's host invited friend to stay in his room as well. Apparently the talk among roomies was mostly about partying - a turn off for both S and friend. It didn't sour their feeling about the school totally though, as they enjoyed their classes, had an encouraging coach interview/team time, and thought the facilities were very nice.
It's not off the list, but he also didn't come home and put the application in the definitely YES pile.....</p>

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<p>If money is tight, another issue to think about at this stage of the game is the cost of transportation. This did not even occur to me during the college selection process with my first daughter (now a junior at a midwest LAC), but it sure will be a factor when my younger daughter (now a HS junior) starts looking this spring.</p>

<p>Not only will the student have to go back and forth between home and school, the parents will be making trips, too - moving the student in, visiting for parents' weekend, moving out at the end of the year, etc.</p>

<p>Even with the cheapest flights it adds up quickly!</p>

<p>flatlander</p>

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<p>Well, technically its not necessary for the parent to accompany the kid if travel costs are a problem. I have yet to see my daughter's college - she visited on her own before & after admission, and did just fine with the movein without parental help. </p>

<p>So yes, those are costs to consider.... but costs can be contained by cutting down on the number of trips as well as limiting the number of travelers.</p>

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<p>Both of my boys went to schools that were a good 7 hour drive from here. But the schools were about a half hour from airports that featured cheap flight to our home airport, so that has been a non issue for us. Each year, H or I drove the boys to college in a one way rental, dropped the car off at the airport when done settling in, and returning home on a 1 way flight. The reverse would be done for coming home. Enough kids live out this way from either college, that getting a ride home was never an issue.</p>

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<p>calmom - I"m wondering how you managed a visit far away with only your D going. I am totally new to this process, but haven't been able to figure out how to send just S, as being 17 he can't rent a hotel room on his own, and the colleges will only host him one night in a dorm. From west coast to east, and in order to do coach meeting, interview, class, and overnight, at least two nights are needed. Am I missing how to pull this off?
Thanks for any suggestions.</p>

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<p>My daughter stayed with friends most places, and was visiting colleges in major urban areas so transportation to/from the airport was easy. First she went to Washington DC and stayed in the home of a good friend of her dad's, who lived very near American U. She took a cab from the airport, spent a day sightseeing around Washington on her own, then used the metro on successive days to get to American & George Washington, and then to the Goucher campus where she had arranged an overnight. The next day she took the train to New York, where she was met at the station by a friend who is a student at NYU and whose parents also live in town, and she visited NYU and Barnard.</p>

<p>She took a separate trip to Boston, staying with her boyfriend who attends school there. It was pouring rain for the first part of her visit, so she ended up cancelling scheduled visits to suburban schools (Wellesley, Brandeis), but did have a chance to visit Boston U & Northeastern, and also took a day trip to Providence to visit Brown, going by either bus or train -- I'm not really sure how they got there.</p>

<p>So the best alternative is to find a friend -- but if your son can be hosted at the college one night, and simply needs to arrive early, you can also put him on a late night flight, so he'll arrive early in the morning. That is what my son did when he went to New York to visit the college he attended for the first time, after he had been admitted -- he took the redeye, then was supposed to use an airport limo service (Super Shuttle equivalent) to get to his college, but it turned out that the lady sitting next to him on the plane lived nearby, so she gave him a ride. Then he did his overnight, and he took the train in to the city, did some sightseeing, and caught a plan out that evening. </p>

<p>Have you tried asking the coach whether he can help arrange local accommodations? I know nothing about athletic recruiting, but I would think that they might have some local connections with families who can host visiting students. Alternatively, if you don't know anyone in the area, you might be able to make a connection through this board. When my daughter was headed toward Goucher, I had also sent a PM to a CC-parent who lived in the area asking for tips about public transportation. My daughter is at Barnard now, and they do not arrange overnights at this time of year, but another CC parent has PM'd me to ask if my daughter could host her daughter... and my daughter was very willing to have a guest. I would not be comfortable doing that with a total stranger, but I've been on these boards a long time, so I feel that I know the regulars who post a lot... and I definitely feel I know some of the kids (and their SAT scores, ECs, awards, etc). In any case, I've sent both my kids off to foreign exchanges where they lived overseas with total strangers, so meeting a CC kid on a college campus seems pretty safe. </p>

<p>So if the college is accessible by public transportation from a major airport, if you can't get help from the coach, I'd suggest that you post a thread here or in the Parent Cafe asking for help or suggestions coordinating the trip. If it is more remote... then I guess that is a factor to consider in selecting a college in the first place.</p>

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<p>Just a solitary, statistical blip:</p>

<p>Our S received fabulous need-based aid from Duke. It blew all other offers off the table.</p>

<p>In spite of its reputation as a heavy party school, S has discovered that there are many who, like him, aren't into that scene, and he is loving the community of smart, interesting kids.</p>

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<p>One other resource to consider is asking the HS if they know of grad/kids in the area your child will be visiting. Perhaps you can link up with the grad/kid & they'll help out your kid. The coach should also help with this.</p>