<p>From what I’ve read, Alexandre also seems to have a very large amount of pride for UM, which skews his responses. I’m not trying to offend, or to imply this is a negative thing, it’s just something that needs to be taken into account when judging arguments. I have nothing against him as a person. I am WELL aware that this is a great university. Do not put words in my mouth in saying I don’t think U of M is good enough for me. It’s just when people try to claim U of M is on par with the ivies, they are just being a bit too proud. </p>
<p>“But I can assure you, there are thousands of students at Michigan that are Ivy League quality and gladly have chosen to stay instate or have come here from out of state. To indicate that they are somehow less intelligent because they do so, is the height of belligerence and snobbery.”</p>
<p>Without a doubt, there are thousands of students here that are Ivy-caliber (but thousands does not mean half, which has been implied by the 50% comment). I never said there weren’t a large quantity of students who would do well at Ivies, nor did I say the kids who choose to stay in-state are less intelligent because of it. And I did certainly did not mean imply either.</p>
<p>All I’m trying to say here is that there aren’t SO MANY (50% of) students here who are Ivy-caliber.</p>
<p>I now appreciate and understand where you’re coming from cdz512. Alexandre is affiliated with the university. I assume he has some inside and current information that is not readily available to the general public. Furthermore, the result of payscale numbers to me are relatively benign unless you’re comparing schools in the same region. It’s not a secret the coasts are significantly more expensive to live in than the midwest. Schools like Duke, where a very significant number of students are from the northeast, also skews the data to higher salaries. Of course, I know you are smart enough to know that anyway.</p>
<p>Maybe Alexandre has affiliation with the university, but that doesn’t make his facts about other universities accurate. I highly doubt that he can say that other schools superscore their SAT. Also Brown has 96% of the students that are top 10% with most of the students having a ACT of 29-34. [Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)
Also I highly doubt that living in a expensive place means that you are going to get a better salary. I’m sure that a good amount of UM students go live in the coast. The Payscale chart reveals how much money the graduates MAKE after graduating, not how much money the students make when they go to the university. Which means how much money do the graduates receive from their job, not what their family’s make from where they are. Any if you would like to compare regions, isn’t nice to know that Notre Dame (Indiana) has graduates making 99,100. They are in the same region. I don’t really thing that Payscale is “benign” because they compare the graduate’s salary from the company they work at, not the salary (of the family) or where they are from. Also Duke does not have a majority of people coming from the northeast. Duke has 21% coming from the south, 15% from NC, 14% coming from the west, and 10% coming from midwest. Only 15% comes from northeast, and the Northeast is a pretty big region, I don’t think even half of the people from the northeast are rich (as in upper class).
[Duke</a> University Admissions: Class of 2012 Profile](<a href=“http://admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2012profile.html]Duke”>http://admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2012profile.html)</p>
<p>^^^^“Also I highly doubt that living in a expensive place means that you are going to get a better salary.” </p>
<p>After I read this statement, I didn’t bother reading the rest of your remarks. You can’t be serious if you actually believe this. Highly doubt? That’s laughable at the least. Alexandre can say the things he does, because he talks from experience. I wonder where you are talking from?</p>
<p>Oops, what I meant was the region, not like down to the specific city.
You referred to the entire Northeast and coast as “rich” but I highly doubt that all or even half of the Northeast or the coast is rich and filled with people who receive high salaries. Again I don’t see how being FROM the northeast and going to a university is going to allow a person to have a higher salary when they get their job.</p>
<p>^^^^Wow GoBlue81. So I guess that means people who are gunning for the Ivy League are taking the SAT over and over again, just to improve a score, section by section. No wonder their average SAT scores are higher. They have to be. This is one of the things that sort of make a mockery of these kinds of tests in my opinion.</p>
<p>Cdz, your comparisons are quite unfair. Michigan has eighteen graduate and profesional programs that range from the lower-paying human services (e.g., library science, social work, nursing, teaching) to the higher-paying well-known professions (e.g., business, medicine, law, and engineering.) So of course the average salaries will vary dramatically. Michigan’s mission is to serve the people of Michigan and beyond who want a high-quality educational experience. Neither Duke (8 schools), Cornell (13 schools), or Stanford (7 schools) offer such a wide range of graduate level programs. Both schools are also located on the coasts, which have a higher cost of living. The fact that the average Michigan alum salary is over $80,000 is quite an accomplishment considering it’s a public university. </p>
<p>You need to be careful criticizing Alexandre. Since he’s a super moderator, he has special privileges, such as monitoring threads. He is also a U-M alumni representative so he has insider knowledge of the school better than you. He’s very well-respected on this forum. You may not understand this since you’re still new to CC, but you will realize why his posts are full of merit. What’s wrong with him having a lot of U-M pride? He can’t be proud of the fact he enjoyed his undergraduate experience there and wants to share what Michigan has to offer to other students?</p>
<p>Once again cdz512, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that people in the northeast were rich. Those were your words. I said salaries are higher there because, "The coasts are considerably more expensive to live in than the midwest. For the most part, they are the costliest areas in the entire country.</p>
<p>Reading recent post, it seem like cdz512 and gaints92 are debating ( if that’s the right word) on public open information available… while from my understanding rjkofnovi and tenisghs seems to be implying that Alexandre have insight information on UM-Ann Arbor( which comes to no surprise reading back on other post, etc…). So basically it seems like each will have their own standpoint ( if that’s the right word). Though I somewhat do question ( and I’m sure there is a explanation, and no intentions on being rude) on Alexandre comment that Penn does not release statistics ( or at least for enrolled), so I don’t see how Alexandre made the comparison that UM-Ann Arbor ( school I prefer over Penn) is basically at par with Penn ( which I disagree on, and stated before).</p>
<p>I think Penn is competitive as the top three.</p>
<p>Sure UM has lower paying schools but the salary is a median, the extremes are eliminated.
Also do I have to repeat myself? I mean in no way to put down Alexandre, I appreciate what he does and I do respect him. Where do I doubt his pride in UM? More so it seems like you guy are trying to put me down. Just because I disagree on some part doesn’t mean that I dislike Alexandre. I specifically said “I mean in no ways to offend Alexandre, and I appreciate his insight and opinion”. If some people would read what I said, then they would understand that this is more of a formal debate, rather than a random insult against each other. I appreciated what he has to offer and I never said he was bad. I stated from the facts that I receive, and found that what he said differed from the facts. Of course I might not have been right but that doesn’t mean I’m offending him. Again like my earlier post, I never said that I disliked his post or try to put down him. In all my post I said that I might have been right and I take into consideration of the other side. Please tenisghs, don’t put words into my mouth.
rjkofnovi, my bad, however, I do still have to disagree to a certain extent. The Northeast is expensive in some areas but also cheaper in others. So I wouldn’t say they are that much more expensive. And yet also Notre Dame somewhat opposes the theory. Notre Dame has a higher median salary than Cornell but Notre Dame is in Indiana</p>
<p>I would like to counter that with another ranking:
QS World University Rankings/USNEWS World University Ranking</p>
<p>1 HARVARD University**********
2 YALE University********
3 University of CAMBRIDGE
4 University of OXFORD<br>
5 CALIFORNIA Institute of Technology<br>
6 IMPERIAL College London
7 UCL (University College London)
8 University of CHICAGO<br>
9 MASSACHUSETTS Institute of Technology
10 COLUMBIA University********
11 University of PENNSYLVANIA**********
12 PRINCETON University********
13= DUKE University
13= JOHNS HOPKINS University<br>
15 CORNELL University**********
16 AUSTRALIAN National University<br>
17 STANFORD University
18 University of MICHIGAN -------------------
19 University of TOKYO
20 MCGILL University </p>
<p>*=Ivies
— = Michigan
(I used different symbols so it is easier to find)</p>
<p>“Reading recent post, it seem like cdz512 and gaints92 are debating ( if that’s the right word) on public open information available…”</p>
<p>Coolbreeze, my opinion is actually more based on observations of the “average” undergraduate student at U of M. My main argument is: After observing/interacting with/befriending several individuals who would be considered an average U of M student (by GPA) during my time in Ann Arbor, I cannot possibly accept the notion that the top 50% of UM undergrads could compete at Ivy League Schools. Per my observations, I would probably cut that percentage in half, at least.</p>
<p>I noticed that right away too wov2014. Nevertheless, with the thousands of universities on this planet, Michigan appears to be right up there with most of the Ivies.</p>
<p>revies?? wow nice new word there, please use real words, especially when you are just “newer” than I am to CC</p>
<p>You can’t possibly rely on ranking can you? I means seriously, I didn’t include Brown and Dartmouth because I didn’t want to go any further but still, even though they are lower doesn’t mean that they are worse. Ranking means nothing to tell you the truth, there are more of a way to brag than the show the full potential of the university. Also you can’t possibly say that UM is at par with the Ivies just because it is higher than 2 out of eight. I mean think about it, UM is one school, there are eight Ivies, there is always a chance to be better than the worst Ivies. Also Ivies aren’t always top of their class. Some Ivies are just sometimes overrated. I mean if we were to compare it with the equivalent of the Ivies, UM looses pretty badly. Brown and Dartmouth are the lower Ivies. If I’m not wrong the OP was asking about the entire Ivy league, not just the bottom ones. I mean Stanford can easily knock Dartmouth or Brown out of the Ivies. Duke can too and JHU also. Picking on the bottom two is pretty weak. I mean giants92, rjkofnovi, and I compared most of the ivies. We leave out the top three HYP because UM truly can’t compare to those schools. Few people honest know that Brown and Dartmouth are ivies. So you can’t say that just because two worst Ivies are not shown, that UM is better. Picking out the two least known Ivies make much sense.
Also lets look at the USNEWS Ranking Undergrad:</p>
<p>1) Harvard*
2) Princeton*
3) Yale*
4) Stan
4) MIT
6)Caltech
6) UPenn*
8) Columbia*
8) Duke
8) U Chicago
11) Dart*
12) Wash U
12) NW
14) Cornell*
15) JHU
16) Brown*
17) Rice
18) Emory
18) ND
18) VD</p>
<p>(abbreviated so it was easier to type)</p>
<p>Clearly UM is not on this.
So I guess either way, you lose</p>