Is Villanova University worth it?

Parents Forum
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<p>I have not read this entire thread, just the first few pages, but wonder if the OP would consider suggesting that
his D read this thread herself. Seeing all the other responses may give her some good perspective.</p>

<p>I live in the western suburbs of Philly, actually right down the road from Villanova. My son even attended some engineering classes there. Nice school, but I would hate to have my kid saddled with heavy loans after graduation. I limited my kids’ loans to the Stafford max loans, as we did not qualify for FA but did want the kids to have skin in the game, a vested interest in making the most out of the college experience. Now my son, an engineering grad, is living at home and working and trying to pay off his loans at an accelerated pace as he is probably going to marry a woman who will have heavy loans for professional school. It is not easy for these kids to make their futures in this challenging economy. Heavy student loans can get in the way of buying a first home, starting a family, etc. </p>

<p>Please, OP, encourage your D to look at the big, long-term, picture.</p>

<p>It seems that the OP’s D is a truly wonderful student and person, and I wish her and her caring family the very best.</p>

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<p>Anybody else wondering if their kid is a “mouthbreather”? Ouch.</p>

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<p>As someone familiar to this area and school, I feel it is important to consider the viewpoints of students and families in this area and in local Catholic schools. To the student who has gone through 12 years of Catholic school, whose Faith is really important to them, who probably knows many people who’ve attended Villanova (their own teachers, family and neighbors), who hears about Villanova in the local news (not just for Basketball!!), Villanova can be just a natural school at which to see oneself. Around here, it’s like Apple Pie, CYO sports, a sunny day and church on Sunday, if I can make an abstract analogy. There really isn’t any other way to describe it."</p>

<p>I’m not Catholic but I get it. I know Orthodox Jewish families who feel this way about Yeshiva University, and African-American families who feel this way about Howard and Spelman, and folks who live in Michigan who feel this way about U Michigan. I really do get it- it’s a strong cultural bias.</p>

<p>The question on the table though, is not, “Is my daughter acting in an age appropriate way to have fallen in love with Villanova, and is now crushed that we can’t afford it”. The answer to that in my mind is a resounding yes. The question is- or was- is the value differential between V and another alternative worth 100K or raiding the 401K or saddling a new schoolteacher with debt.</p>

<p>I have been recruiting for large corporations for almost 30 years, and therefore have a somewhat biased but reasonably commercial perspective on about 200 colleges/universities. (I realize that makes me an ignoramus vis-a-vis the other 2800 or so colleges in the US. But I cannot imagine- other than the distance from home- anything so substantially better about the intellectual and academic climate at Villanova that would justify saddling a kid with this kind of loan burden. If you can afford it but cutting out ski trips and keeping the car another 3 years? Go for it. If you can afford it by having your kid work summers folding sweaters at the GAP instead of hanging out by the pool? Great idea.</p>

<p>But that’s not the type of “sacrifice” we’re talking about.</p>

<p>I’m sorry to have gotten us off track about Cal Tech et al… my point was not a digression about the salaries that kids make coming out of these schools (and NB- many engineers drag down the average salary because they go to start up’s after graduation- earning $60K in salary but with many multiples in options. Many of these kids are millionaires in their 30’s, but the starting salary data does not include, nor should it, the imputed value of stock options). However, my point was that I am prepared to agree that the INTELLECTUAL environment and experience at a place like MIT or CalTech or CMU or Johns Hopkins or Stanford is at least arguably different enough that one can have a discussion about whether it’s “worth” 100K differential.</p>

<p>To me, if you’re going Catholic and want that INTELLECTUAL difference, go to Georgetown or Notre Dame. That’s not a knock on the kids at Villanova or any of the other Catholic schools-- but for heavens sake, we’re talking about college. If your 17 or 18 year old is only focused on nice buildings and pretty landscaping and cute, preppy kids walking across campus and therefore she feels at home, take her to an upscale shopping mall in Newport Beach for vacation. This is her education, not an episode of a TV sitcom.</p>

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<p>Good post, Blossom. And, juniebug, LOL. Where’s Moooopsie? Still shoveling that driveway?</p>

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<p>Oh my Blossom, very well put! Thanks. </p>

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<p>“Have you, the many posters, (Hanna included), visited Villanova?”</p>

<p>Yes, many times. Very pretty, nice area, happy students, overpriced.</p>

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<p>I actually took the LSAT there many, many years ago while I was home on a college break. I grew up about 20 minutes from there. I never considered it for college. It didn’t attract many kids from my high school, for some reason. Maybe because our student body was about 50% Jewish???</p>

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<p>Been there many times. Lovely place, nice, earnest student body. For someone who can write the tuition check with only an “ouch”- it’s a great experience. I cannot fathom stretching to the point of borrowing to send a kid there.</p>

<p>You tell me your kid wants to be a museum curator or art historian and Williams, which gives no merit aid, is going to be a painful stretch. I’m not going to tell you how to spend your money- that’s for you to decide- but the reality is that the Williams Art Mafia is a force of nature in the museum world, the gallery world, the academic departments in universities, the auction houses, the periodicals which cover the art market, the appraiser world, and now, even the companies who write insurance and the banks which finance the purchase of fine art. So is Williams “worth” $100K more than U Mass? Only the parent can determine that, but there are significant differences in the training and quality of teaching/instruction and alumni relations and ambitions and internship opportunities that your kid will get at Williams in this specific discipline, vs. a much cheaper option. Make your own decision- but there are differences.</p>

<p>Antiquity at U Chicago or Classics at Berkeley; Bio-med at JHU, Computer Science (or performing arts) at CMU, foreign languages at Middlebury, Poli Sci/History at Yale, Hotel Administration at Cornell; I could tell you something substantive and distinctive about these colleges in these areas. You have to decide if the substantive and distinctive is “worth it” to you and your checkbook, but there are differences which are both intrinsic to the experience, and well known in the “market place” externally when it comes to grad school and jobs and fellowships and grants and all that jazz. Your kid wants to study accounting? Don’t pay for one of these schools (most of them don’t offer it anyway). But for my money, there is a difference between a top rated program like U Texas Austin in accounting, vs. the no-name directional college down the street from you. Your kid may not care, and you may not care, but if the aspiration is a Big 4 or a corporate role in finance, it may be worth it. If the aspiration is to work locally and be in a small CPA office doing tax and small business audits, probably not.</p>

<p>But Hanna and I didn’t start a thread saying, “Don’t send your kid to Villanova”. The OP asked 'is it worth it" and a lot of folks here who know a lot of colleges and have seen this saga every year, have weighed in.</p>

<p>And if OP had said, “My D got into Georgetown and wants to study international relations, is it worth it?” we’d all be having a different conversation.</p>

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<p>I drive by it all the time. I took the Chartered Financial Analyst exam there back in the day. My S went to computer camp there in the summer. It is a very nice campus.</p>

<p>Whether it is overpriced or not is an individual decision - not a blanket statement to be made.</p>

<p>Someone can say, “in my opinion, Villanova is over priced”, because that is all it is, just one person’s opinion.</p>

<p>It looks like a lot of people don’t think that is over priced, with half the most recent entering class not getting financial aid nor merit scholarships and the school having an acceptance rate below 50%.</p>

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<p>MYOS, M2CK, halfemptypockets, 3tb, MoWC, Lucie, blossom, and everyone: Thank you for your kind reflections on my post.</p>

<p>I haven’t really posted on CC, but I was so interested in reading this thread throughout the whole weekend, and thought of so many different things I wanted to post, that I finally posted in response to halfemptypockets’s suggestion (for the second time) of the commuter scholarship and possibility of commuting. I also thought that if OP didn’t call the Admissions office and called FA, that maybe it would be a helpful suggestion to call Admissions.</p>

<p>I see from half’s post from the VU website that OP’s D had to originally apply as a commuter, so my suggestion wasn’t as helpful as I had hoped. Although maybe calling Admissions and asking about it even though it is past, could be a possibility, even at this late time. I recognize the OP’s family ideally wanted her to stay on campus.</p>

<p>In response to Lucie: I very greatly know that all those other Catholic colleges and universities in the area are terrific schools and that thousands of students from the Philly area Catholic schools go there, too. And I know that students who are very involved in their Catholic faith also go to Penn State, and many other Pennsylvania state schools. I was in no means saying that only ones serious about their faith go to Villanova. No, Not at All !!! I was simply responding to the many posters who seemed to imply that the OP’s D was being a Diva, or worse.</p>

<p>I really was trying to being constructive with some helpful ideas, the numbered ones. Below the suggestions, in the paragraphs, I also was hoping to contribute to the conversation by adding some local perspective, that’s all. I sincerely appreciate MYOS’, and blossom’s understanding of what I was saying. I just feel badly for the OP and D. Honestly, been there, done that.</p>

<p>FWIW, my two older kids both got into their “dream” school, and did not go to those schools because they were financially unattainable. I, too, don’t advocate excessive debt or emptying 401k’s. There will always be future expenses to consider, so something has to be left for retirement, weddings, medical, and repairs.</p>

<p>In response to Sax: I read the OP’s posts on page 1 differently:</p>

<p>Halfemptypockets asked: “Can I ask which of those schools offered her 28k?..”</p>

<p>OP answered: “…Widener was the one who offered her 28k, 23k plus a 5k scholarship she was chosen for at her HS if she choses to attend Widener, it was part of channel 10 news I think. I think St. Joseph’s and Arcadia are her next choice….”</p>

<p>I understood it to mean that Widener was who gave her the most, but St. Joe’s and Arcadia were choices #2 and #3.</p>

<p>I second MYOS’ recommendation to apply to UScranton. Also visit Catholic U again. A lot of students are very happy at both, and both are relatively nearby.</p>

<p>It seems to me that so many kind persons have given the OP a lot of terrific ideas, most especially MYOS, M2CK, halfemptypockets, apprenticeprof and so many, many others. </p>

<p>I hope that OP does post back again to update us. Everyone’s just trying to help.</p>

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<p>There seems to be are lot of new folks coming to the party. Let me bring a few things to light that may have been overlooked. D thinks English is a solid choice for her, and is not sure on secondary education, but hopes attending college with all of the possibilities will clarify that or not. So, basically she is unsure on the teaching part. Mom & Dad are helping to the tune of $100K total. Our income is above normal, and we can afford VU if that is the decision. We do feel our kids should have some skin in the game (Staffords), but not want them strapped with large debt after graduation. The $1500 a month in payments came from a spread sheet I did when I was showing D the cost of financing. VU is $57k per yr, over 4 yrs is $228,000 - $100,000 M&P =$128,000-$27,000 Staffords = $110,000 hence “Is Villanova Worth It” I have learned a lot seeing this is my very first post on CC or ever for that matter. We did visit Georgetown, West Chester, Ursinus, and few others… But D really only wanted to apply to VU, don’t get me wrong, she liked the other schools, just connected in a special way at VU, we visited three times and all three she felt the same way. St. Joe’s was her #2, but it didn’t put the same smile on her face like VU did. I realize $228K is a ton of money, I get it… In my day going to college was a was to get a great job so you can buy the home, now a days it costs the same as a home to go to College, kids shouldn’t have to pay $228k to go to college… I know, don’t even say it… well pick a different school, …Well maybe she will and maybe she won’t. She is still weighing all the facts. When I was growing up, my parents did not have 5 cents to send me or my brother to college, we both ended up just fine, but that was then. Today it’s different, I am not so sure it better, just different. My wife and I do see her flourishing at VU, we see her connecting and making life long friends… maybe she will do just fine at another school, or maybe she will regret doing so…all good questions. After 16 pages I think I have learned all I am going to. Thank you to all posters who deep down tried to help, I will post when she has made her decision. Not saying I am leaving, just can’t post everyday. </p>

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<p>Thanks. Just tell her to watch out for the mouth-breathers if she picks a different school!</p>

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<p>OP, just post when you can/want to. There is no pressure to post every day or every time someone comments on your thread. Some of us have more time (translate: more addiction to this site) than others. And these threads tend to take on a life of their own.</p>

<p>Your daughter sounds like a great kid and will do well wherever she goes. Good luck.</p>

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<p>If mom & dad are only chipping in to the tune of $100k, letting the kid take on massive loans is very unfortunate. It’s Monopoly money to the average 18-year old. If the parents can afford to finance it then it would be different. </p>

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<p>OK then…</p>

<p>So am I reading this right…the student will be borrowing $27,000. The parental units borrowing $110,000?</p>

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<p>If your daughter chooses to go to VU she could greatly reduce her debt by becoming an RA. I don’t know how much competition for this position there is but it certainly is worth trying. </p>

<p>The compensation is free room and board.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/studentlife/reslife/resassistants/prospective/job_description.html”>https://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/studentlife/reslife/resassistants/prospective/job_description.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Busy person. You were right about St Joes as number 2. In my posts I was always suggesting attending St Joes as the daughter had applied and been admitted. It certainly seems very similiar to VU in many ways. </p>

<p>This thread was a bit of a ride because the OP did not make it clear if he was going to pay for his daughters # 1 choice with his 401k or if he was going to make her pay the $1500 a month loan payments. I still am unclear. He says he can afford it but he also says they will only pay $100,000.</p>

<p>So is VU worth the daughter having $1500 a month loan payment after school. Oh heck no.
So is it worth paying for VU if you have the money. Well, sure. If that’s what makes you happy.</p>

<p>Welcome to CC. There are lots of great people with quite a bit of knowledge and willingness to help. I would love to see you continuing to post. Same goes to the OP. </p>

<p>Oh and I give up. what the heck is a mouth breather?</p>

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<p>Borrowing $110,000 over 4 years sounds insane to me, unless OP is done paying the mortgage and has enough assets that can be sold, is fairly young, both OP and spouse are in good health with a stable job that can’t be outsourced and no younger sibling is waiting.
If OP has the $110,000 in investments/savings (not 401k), and there’s no younger sibling and OP is willing to spend the money, then it’s a family choice.
I certainly hope the daughter wasn’t thinking of taking on the $110,000 debt herself - while it’s generous on her part, she can’t possibly understand how absolutely awful it’d be for her. And college debt is the only kind of debt you can never, ever get rid of. :(</p>

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<p>^^ What is a mouth breather?</p>

<p>In my neck of the woods, anyone that graduated from Nebraska.</p>

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<p>God I wish these posts were numbered! The OP wrote “our income is above average and we can afford VU if that is the decision.” to me that ends the discussion. The OP says they can afford VU if it is the choice. He says NOTHING about borrowing $100,000 herself…or as a cosigner with the student. He says “we can afford VU if that is the decision.”</p>

<p>There are a number of us here (me included) who allowed our kids to attend exoensive private universities…and the kids did not pursue careers in engineering, IB, finance, medicine, etc. Like the OP, we could afford this choice and we allowed out kids to make this choice. </p>

<p>I don’t regret one NICKEL of the money we spent to send our kids to private, expensive universities. And yes, they both had Direct Loans, and they both worked duri g college. And neither one ie earning a top…or even close to it…salary.</p>

<p>If the OP is willing to fund Villanova University, that is THEIR family choice. </p>

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<p>OP- unless you are prepared to up your contribution inline with the cost increases at V, be aware that your debt will exceed the 110 figure you’ve listed.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>