<p>Haystack, it’s this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Essentially the OP has his daughter financing $111k in private loans PLUS $27k in Stafford under this scenario. This for an English/education major at Villanova.</p>
<p>@myos1634</p>
<p>"@M2CK: because most STEM grads aren’t being hired by Google and FB. "</p>
<p>Exactly!!! That’s why it’s not accurate to think that a MIT STEM grad with just a BS will be walking into a $100k job…that will double his salary in a very short time. No one can depend on being the exception. </p>
<p>@oldfort
"I would imagine average salaries at MIT, CMU, and Caltech are quite high.
"</p>
<p>for new grads? No. Not much higher than grads from anywhere else. Often very similar.</p>
<p>Salaries are often dependent on COL of a region. The same MIT grad might make $15k less in one region than another.</p>
<p>. </p>
<p>Walt (OP): Just a comment on your math. You said Villanova costs $57,000/year, and multiplied that by 4 to get $228,000. What you left out is annual increases. That $57,000 is for the 2013-14 school year – it will likely go up 3-5% for your daughter’s freshman year. Then it will increase another 3-5% for the next three years. Assuming a 3% increase every year, that means about $58,700 + $60,500 + $62,300 + $64,000 = $245,500.</p>
<p>I used to live down the road from Villanova, and took the GMATs there. The idea that Villanova now costs the same as the top selective colleges astounds me. If they don’t provide a lot of financial aid, there must be a lot of very wealthy students there, or students who graduate with a lot of debt. </p>
<p>Perhaps in a couple of days, the OP will clarify. OP…do you’ll a. To have your student take out in excess of $100,000 in loans to attend Villanova, or do YOU (parents) plan to fund this? Please clarify. If you can afford to pay for VU “if that is the decision”, does that mean YOU (parents) will pay for the school above the Direct Loan amount?</p>
<p>
The OP’s daughter cannot borrow beyond the federal student loan limits ($27K for a 4 year program). Her parents would have to finance $111K in private loans (in addition to the $100K they are able and willing to spend out of pocket). Various scenarios might reduce the amount they need to borrow. I think the most plausible ones mentioned so far involve graduating in 3 years and working as an RA. Neither of those are sure things. She might not get an RA position. Far more students graduate in 5 or 6 years than in 3 these days. One of my own kids thought he could cash in his IB chips to graduate in 3 years … but that was before an unanticipated language requirement, an illness, etc., got in the way. </p>
<p>When the OP says he can afford VU, he apparently means he can qualify for a $110K loan or draw it out of his retirement fund. He apparently doesn’t mean he can shelve his plans to build a vacation cottage or sell some spare Apple stock. </p>
<p>What would the OP’s daughter think if Dad spent $110K of retirement money on a couple years of His & Hers season tickets? Would she think the smile on his face was worth it? Or would she be more comfortable if he settled for watching the Phillies on a nice new TV with a subscription to Home Team Sports?</p>
<p>Oops! Cut and pasted into the wrong thread. Carry on.</p>
<p>M2CK -
I know a lot of them do. We’ve made such offer to some of them, and we were short relative to other tech companies. With all due respect, I make it my business to know how much those graduates command. I know where I hire, where I can’t afford, and where I won’t even bother. </p>
<p>We tend to live in our own world of knowing what we know, but based on what I’ve seen in my little world, it is really not such an exception for STEM students from those top tier schools to do very well right out of school. </p>
<p>VU means something entirely different in my part of the country. I would sell my soul for one of my kids to go to our VU, but I’m out of kids! I got one through graduate school there, though!</p>
<p>Once again, STEM majors are not uniform in job and career prospects. For [MIT</a> 2012 bachelor’s degree graduates](<a href=“https://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation12.pdf]MIT”>https://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation12.pdf), the average starting pay levels were:</p>
<ul>
<li>$80,193 EECS</li>
<li>$76,869 Math</li>
<li>$74,403 Mechanical Engineering</li>
<li>[…]</li>
<li>$49,400 Biological Engineering</li>
<li>$42,267 Chemistry</li>
<li>$38,778 Biology</li>
</ul>
<p>Non-STEM majors:</p>
<ul>
<li>$81,667 Media Arts and Science</li>
<li>$70,256 Management</li>
<li>$62,600 Economics</li>
<li>$42,902 Brain and Cognitive Sciences</li>
<li>$33,833 Urban Studies and Planning</li>
</ul>
<p>Math, physics, mechanical engineering, EECS, economics, and management did show a range with an upper end of $100,000 or higher. But since the average for each major is below $100,000, it is not like those are the most common pay levels.</p>
<p>Note that MIT sent 17.2% to consulting and 2.5% to investment banking, which skews the pay levels upward compared to most other schools.</p>
<p>I am a recent addition to CC and found this to be a very interesting thread. OOS Affordability for Villanova was a big concern for us as well, D was deferred EA from Villanova. I applaud you for trying to keep her dream school alive. I look forward to your update.</p>
<p>Anxious4…just curious. What do you mean by “OOS affordabiliity for Villanova”? It is a private university. Instate and OOS students pay the same cost of attendance.</p>
<p>I will try to answer a few questions. We would need to borrow some of the 110K if she decided to go to VU. Whether it be HELOC, Refi, etc… also, we would have time between now and her 3/4yr when the 110k would be due to lower the 110k. What it will be then is a guess, but maybe we save 50K by then and borrow the balance of 60k…not sure, but it’s a guess. If that was to hold true, D would have debt of 27k Stafford, and approx 60K we would co sign for or finance ourselves… keeping her around 87k without factoring in tuition increases year after year to keep the math simple. D does plan to apply for a RA position like her brother is, but we all know that is not guaranteed. </p>
<p>If you expect her to pay back the whole $87,000+, that might be a tough task on the typical pay level of an English or education graduate.</p>
<p>Sorry I was cut/paste from private message regarding all D’s schools with another poster…still getting the hang of this. I hope OP understood me regardless.</p>
<p>Like many others, I have been following this thread with great interest. I concur with the overwhelming majority that D should not be allowed to borrow more than the 27K Stafford max. Does OP’s recent post mean that D would be responsible for paying back the additional amount financed? If OP can save another 50K in 2 years then why can’t OP pay another 25k a year in years 3 and 4 if he decides it is worth it? It seems the question isn’t so much whether D should take on excessive debt, or whether OP should raid his 401k ( a “no” to both), or even whether the ROI is good (probably not), but whether it is simply worth paying that kind of money to make D happy and for the VU experience. Although my head tells me that the practical posters are right that no college experience is worth that much $ unless $ is no object, and that D will likely "grow where planted, " the emotional factor is hard to ignore. Aside from making a sweet and hard working child happy, a parent may also view a college as a particularly good fit for their child. Maybe they envision their child growing more as a person in a particular environment. Or maybe their child is the type that is more likely to excel if academically challenged, or if placed in small discussion based classes. Maybe they want their child to avoid the “mouth breathers” (until this thread I had never heard that term and am still not sure of its meaning). These type of factors are difficult to quantify in dollars. Also, IMO it’s not always a school’s ranking that makes it “worth it.”
Every situation is unique and ultimately only OP can decide if it’s worth making whatever economic sacrifices he would need to make. I may, nonetheless, solicit the candid advice of the CC community on my D’s “is it worth it” scenario. 
It’s always good to have a dose of reality. </p>
<p>Just a side note: Use magnifying glasses when you make decisions based on grad surveys and employment figures. MIT info above had 274 undergraduates responding and found employment at graduation (out of 706 Graduating Seniors. Not even half.)
)</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus</p>
<p>Thanks. Those are the numbers that I’m familiar with. The idea that a MIT STEM major can count on or expect to earn $100k upon graduation and also double their salary shortly thereafter as a justification to borrow a hundred thousand as an undergrad is just too risky since the avg STEM MIT grad isn’t making that much and won’t be making two hundred thousand per year a short time later. </p>
<p>Yes there are some that will make a hundred thou right out of college, but an incoming frosh certainly can’t count of being one of those folks. </p>
<p>It says that 77.9% of bachelor’s degree graduates responded.</p>
<p>Of those, 53.1% went to work, 39.1% went to graduate or professional school, and 7.9% went to “other”.</p>
<p>The OP and his wife likely easily earn MUCH more than a new teacher. If so, then they should easily be able to pay back those big $100k loans…right? Cuz if THEY CAN’T, then they have no business thinking that their D could.</p>
<p>OP, you may “let” your daughter borrow the extra 60k but don’t expect her to be able to repay them - is this the deal ie., if she does a good job you will pay back those loans for her?
Because odds are she won’t be able to repay more than her federal loans and even that may become a stretch.</p>