haha no basses for the winn
do you play viola? @awesomepolyglot
Don’t assume that the applicant pool is full of fluff. At least a quarter of the Princeton applicant pool has:
760+ SAT CR
780+ SAT M
770+ SAT W
790+ SAT II
(Of course, that top quarter of applicants don’t usually have all these, but you get the idea)
http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile-archive/profile201415/admission/undergraduate/
Also, you need to account for the “quota” set aside for URMs, legacies, athletes, wealthy donors, first-generation students, low-income students, international students, and under-represented states such as Wyoming. If you’re an unhooked applicant, then even with strong test scores (750+ across the board), your average chances may well be BELOW that 5-7% overall acceptance rate for HYPS.
@goldenbear2020
http://blog.prepscholar.com/how-to-get-into-harvard-and-the-ivy-league-by-a-harvard-alum
this is what I based my argument on
At least 2300 on the old SAT.
Remember that excellent scores just put you in the ballpark (since most people applying also have high scores/ECs) so don’t forget to apply to other easier schools (which also offer excellent education).
Good luck!
No, it does not drastically help kids like you.
Warrenb:
You seem like an honest and earnest student. Please listen to the posters who say that your chances are very small. Debate and Music are two of the most common ECs and even with outstanding achievement in both, neither will make you necessarily stand out. The same is true of Eagle Scout. There are multiple threads devoted to what type of boost (if any) Eagle Scout provides. Since you’re already in 10th grade and it will be difficult to establish a truly unique EC, work on being sure your standardized testing (SAT, ACT, subject tests , and APs) is as high as it can be.
Also, when you have more time this summer, work on a list of schools that include Ivy league schools and others in the top 20 - 30 if that is important to you. You are obviously an excellent student and there are so many places where you can thrive and be happy.
@warrenbass You appear to have started this thread looking for people to tell you that you have a very good chance of being admitted to Harvard etc. The only ones who may tell you that are other dreamy uninformed 17 year olds.
You may get a ticket to the lottery but that is what it is: a lottery.
ok thanks for the help @TomSrOfBoston @MAB222
i do have one more question though: should my gpa be any higher? i understand its a crapshoot but is my current gpa enough to even get me into the crapshoot? @TomSrOfBoston @MAB222
are you seriously asking if a 4.0 should be higher how would u even expect to do that
lol i meant weighted @a20171
@warrenbass no ur good on GPA. Try to do something that is your strong suit and focus all energy on it. The music guy, or the law guy, the athlete, etc.
You’re in the top 2% of your class. Being in the top 1% vs. the top 2% is not what will make the difference between acceptance and rejection. People who are # 1 in their class, with 4.0/2400 get rejected, and people with lower stats get accepted.
Kids that are serious about music are not highlighting making All-State once. (Shoot for first chair, multiple years)
Are you in a market with a major youth symphony?
Are you attending a major summer music festival?
Have you won any competitions?
Do you play in a combo out of school?
Etc
If you can get upwards of 750/section, a 34+ on the ACT, and some killer letters of rec/essays, you’re chances could be more like 20-30%, since about a third of the people who apply to the Ivy leagues are well below the range that stands a chance, but there’s still a lot of luck involved in the most exclusive admissions processes. I’d say find something unique, an prestigious academic award, a study abroad, get involved on a higher level with an organization in the same field you plan to work in, something others won’t have that might be enough to set you apart.
Hello Warrenbass;
Short answer: at least 1400, shoot for as high as you can.
A simple Google search will tell you the average SAT score to the point for a given school, so where did the number 1400 come from? I took the SAT as a sophomore three years ago, and looked into the same info you now seek. There is an upward trend in acceptance the higher you go, but for Ivy League schools (excluding Cornell, which has notably lower standards), the admit rates plumetted at the 2100 mark (roughly the equivalent of 1400 today).
As for the 6% claim, you are correct that there are many applicants far below the standards. They are, however, a large minority. If say 40% of applicants fell into this group (a generous assumption), this means the “real” admit rate lies at 10%. What makes you better than 90% of QUALIFIED applicants? While the number is slightly misleading, 6% of all applicants is scarcely more intimidating than 10% of qualified applicants.
At least as of last year when I was applying for colleges, there was not a statistically significant difference between admit rates of eagle scouts and non-eagle scouts, and hence would only factor that in if accompanied by a high-quality explanatory essay. Leadership on the orchestra is a benefit for you, but nothing that sets you apart. Most of those qualified applicants from above have leadership roles; many of them are musicians. Even if they are not, is there really a difference between leading a robotics team, a debate team, a sports team, or an orchestra in terms of value? Is one better than the other? The statistics suggest the answer to the aforementioned questions is no. This is less true if your presence has been a major boost to the team (if the orchestra was on the verge of disbanding and you rallied it not only into solvency but into victory at a state competition, get a letter of recommendation from the conductor and you’ll have a major boost). By itself, however, it fills in the “EC blank,” but not in a way that would secure an acceptance. Your GPA is so far great, but again not all that unusual. Also consider that not all GPA’s are created equal, and selective colleges have many tools to determine the relative rigor of your coursework. It is true that adcoms adjust their expectations to your school… but this is only true to an extent. The fact is students from more rigorous schools with comparable EC’s get admitted at higher rates than their peers at less rigorous schools (I was in the middle of this spectrum, going to a mid-sized, moderately-above-average public school).
Debate team is definitely a great organization and excelling in that will certainly improve your admission odds. However, I would set your sights higher than state qualifier. While commendable, most qualified applicants applying to the Ivy League that were in the debate community will meet or more than likely exceed this accomplishment. I currently attend a school equivalent in quality to a low-end Ivy League. People who made debate a key part of their application were at least State Champions, and a majority had National awards to their name.
To have a good shot at these schools, I would suggest finding a strength combined with a passion that you can leverage to do something exceptional, that few else have done. This will set you apart from the other applicants; coming in third at a state level debate competition or getting National AP scholar will not.
Fortunately, you still have most of your high school career left to bolster your resume. Below is a good example of a very strong contender for the Ivy League (you can see my comments to him as well):
thanks guys!
You can’t just dismiss the 6% admit rate. Sure there are unqualified kids applying but among the 6% admitted are also recruited athletes, URM’s and others who are getting spots you have no chance at. The real admit rate may be closer to 3% for the general pool of student, and if as many as half of those are obviously not qualified (I doubt it’s that high) that brings you back to 6%. Of course I just made up these numbers, but I think it’s a fallacy to dismiss the admissions rates because some applicants are unqualified and you are qualified.
Also, it’s ridiculous to ask your chances when you have so little to show yet.
Dude honestly just do as well as you can. Try your hardest. People are being a little harsh on you, but that being said, tons of applicants to HYP have the same gpa and better ec’s than you, so do not assume that because you have a good gpa and alright ec’s that you’re a shoo-in. Will you get into HYP? Probably not, just because 94% of all applicants do not, but whether you do or not will not be decided your sophomore year. Keep trying, keep excelling in school, maybe pick up some more EC’s if you have the time. What I can tell you is that you are clearly a smart kid and will be a strong applicant for many schools, even if you don’t crack HYP.
This is something I’ve always had strong opinions on, and I’d just like to throw in my two cents here.
For context, I am a freshman at Duke, from high school GPA: 4.0/4.89, ACT: 36, SAT: 2350, All State Musician x1 year, National Finalist (top 10) in business and law competitions x2 years, 2 sport varsity athlete (I was a benchwarmer lol) x3 years.
So, yes, the top schools are almost always a crapshoot. I got rejected from HYP, Stanford, etc, got into Duke and UChicago among the top 10. A good friend of mine in high school (lets call him Steven) had the same GPA and ACT, was an all-nationals violinist, national champion in the business competition I was top 10 in, also a 2 sport varsity athlete (and also a benchwarmer haha), and owner of his own fairly successful web-design firm. He applied ED to Stanford and that was it for him (as a freshman, he has a job at Google now). He applied to Harvard for fun and got rejected.
It’s true that the applicant pools have a lot of under qualified candidates in them. But I would be willing to bet there are also quite a few people like Steven out there. Take that 6% with a grain of salt. For some, it could be as high as 50%. For some, it’s less than 1%.
Don’t forget about the importance of recs and essays. They will make or break your application. I am of the opinion that the letters and essays should be able to say something that isn’t anywhere else in your application, and if they cannot, not only have you failed as an applicant, you probably didn’t have a terribly happy high school experience. Do what makes you happy, do it passionately, and do it as well as you possibly can (and I mean push it to the extreme. No idea is too big to give a shot), and you’ll have plenty to put in your application. Admissions Committees are experts as sniffing out “resume packers” and it will hurt you if they can tell you don’t truly love what you’re doing (and they will be able to tell, I promise).
You have a lot of time to work on your application, but don’t forget to just live life sometimes, because that’s where the compelling stories are going to come from, not from doing things specifically to impress schools. My best essays were often inspired by, or about, things that had nothing to do with school. (Example: I wrote an essay about a random day I decided to learn how to do a backflip, and I believe it was the single largest factor that got me into Duke)
Finally, remember that the system, though a pretty good one, is not fair. It may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe that admissions are fairly adjusted for the opportunities that each applicant had access to. So, for the most part, worthy applicants get their dues, but sometimes, people fall through the cracks, sometimes there just isn’t enough space for everyone. If there are two identical applicants with one spot available (which probably does happen pretty often) who do you pick? It’s an impossible decision and the only person who wins is the person who gets in.
So, I guess my answer to your question is: I have no freakin idea. Get a 2400, get a 1600 (or whatever the equivalent is now) the test is not going to make or break your application. For most elite schools, it won’t even be a major factor. A lot will happen between now and when you apply for college, but please don’t forget to enjoy yourself along the way. High school can, and should, be fun, and it will help your application if you can show that you’ve enjoyed and grown from the journey.
Thanks for stomaching the long post, and best of luck!
-g, Duke 2019