Just Say NO!

Parents Forum
1

<p>As our son narrows his list and begins the search process in earnest, I’m becoming fairly jaded.</p>

<p>He will look like any other “top candidate,” good academics in the top classes at a good school, plenty of ECs, life long classical musician, athlete, blah, blah, blah blah…blah. This was not by design, but by doing the things he wanted to do during the course of his childhood.</p>

<p>That, say the bigs, is enough to get you into the hunt, but not even close to feeling like a solid, if you aren’t an athlete, Senator’s son, legacy, Olympian, under represented minority or haven’t cured cancer, you must do more.</p>

<p>The “more” comes at an expense, giving up your childhood, loosing the journey for the destination. Is it worth it?</p>

<p>I think the answer after visiting several of the bigs a few weeks ago is decidedly no. In fact, with name plates and references to the athletic conference removed, some would have trouble luring the top students.</p>

<p>Our son will not be applying to any of the Ivies, not because he doesn’t have the qualifications, but because he found no there, there.</p>

<p>What’s more disappointing isn’t the game, but how many other institutions are signing on to try to be the same. There’s a clear strategy for doing this. Get a lot of applicants to apply so you can reject most of them and become more “selective.” Vanderbilt has been mailing him since he was in the 9th grade.</p>

<p>The only way to stop this nonsense is to just say no. No I won’t pay a quarter of a million dollars in tuition. No I won’t give up my childhood. No I won’t let a magazine define my self worth. No applications to Ivies. No applications to those who’ve spammed me for four years. NO!</p>

2

<p>There’s no particular reason why your son should have to apply to any college that he doesn’t want to apply to.</p>

<p>But I don’t quite understand your rationale for dismissing a whole group of colleges out of hand. If he happens to find one or more of them appealing, why not apply? The worst that can happen is that he gets rejected or doesn’t get enough financial aid to enable him to attend. Therefore, he wouldn’t attend that college.</p>

<p>Of course, if he doesn’t apply, he won’t attend that college either. Same outcome.</p>

3

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<p>As long as it’s his decision, not yours.</p>

4

<p>Over 3 thousand institutions of higher learning in this country. Surely you can find one for your son to attend without bashing the people who might opt to attend one of the others. Not all of them are playing a game- and some of them are even doing what you are doing, which is to find a place where their kid can thrive, grow, expand their horizons intellectually, etc.</p>

5

<p>Blindly saying “no” is no better than blindly saying “yes.”</p>

6

<p>Bravo-Well said! It’s a shell game that can’t be won.</p>

7

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<p>…what does that even mean? Did he get lost on his way to visiting them?</p>

8

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<p>Far, far be it from me to suggest that anyone must apply to any particular colleges. But the statement above really has me puzzled. To which colleges could you possibly be referring? Are you suggesting that amazing, un-replicable facilities, some of the strongest faculties in the world, secure financial position, highly qualified and motivated students, and lovely traditions are not things that might be attractive to top students? None of those things have anything to do with labels, magazines, or ratings. </p>

<p>Of course, the Ivies (or whatever other set of colleges you want to identify) do not have anything like a monopoly on each of those qualities. And an individual student, depending on the circumstances, may well get a better deal (including financial as well as educational) at a less-famous institution. But just as there’s no reason to belittle the quality of great institutions that are not Harvard or Yale, there is no reason to pretend that they and their peers don’t offer something pretty darn special. Because they do.</p>

<p>And, by the way, it is certainly not the admissions departments of highly selective colleges who are telling students to sacrifice their childhoods. They say the opposite every chance they get, and I think they consciously try to avoid picking students who have done that (although they may not be 100% accurate on that). Their view is, don’t sacrifice your childhood, do what’s best for you, and if we pick you, great, and if we don’t pick you there’s some other fine institution that will, so that’s great, too.</p>

9

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<p>Baloney. But if your student needs to give up his or her childhood in order to become a competitive applicant to a super-selective university, that is obviously not a good decision, and those schools would not be right for your kid. It may be hard for some people to believe, but many normal but very bright students who have had what most people would consider normal childhoods are admitted to selective schools, including ivies, every year. I have two fairly recent graduates, as examples.</p>

<p>I agree that kids can get a good college education within many ranges of selectivity. But if you think that all, or even most, of the kids at ivies and similarly selective schools are somehow prodigies, legacies or gave up their childhoods to mold themselves into what they think selective colleges are looking for, you are misinformed.</p>

10

<p>Sorry to say, you sound more like a frustrated writer trying to bang out some reflective creative writing than anything else. If your kid isn’t shackled to the notion of having to attend an ivy league school, that’s great. Fantastic, even. Opens the doors to alot of amazing schools that I’m sure would be lucky to have him. I do think you’re mistaken on a couple of points. Lots of non-athletes, Senator’s sons, legacies, Olympians, under represented minorities and even cancer curers get into ivy league schools every year. And I’m guessing very few of them have given up their childhood for their acceptance letter. And as I’ve learned the hard way this past year…if you’re upper middle class or better, chances are pretty good you’re going to be paying that quarter million regardless…and if you’re “lucky” enough not to be, the pricetag might well be alot less at Harvard than at joe local state school. Good luck tho’!</p>

11

<p>Oh geez here we go again with another one of THOSE threads…</p>

12

<p>I agree with moonchild: baloney. I know young people who just graduated from or are current students at an array of Ivies, and all of them pretty much fit your description of your S and none of them “gave up their childhood.” They did what interested them. Period.</p>

<p>To suggest that the Ivies and similarly august institutions have nothing to attract top students other than a name is simply ludicrous. </p>

<p>Is this yet another case of sour grapes? Probably. As someone said above, it is as foolish to write them all off as it is to mindlessly pursue admission at those schools only.</p>

13

<p>This is sour grapes on both sides. </p>

<p>The pro-Ivy parents are fighting back because they want to believe they sent their child to the best of the best. </p>

<p>The anti-Ivy parents are jaded and perhaps haven’t fully seen the pluses that Ivy leagues offer.</p>

14

<p>I know one kid who not only gave up his childhood, but (IMHO) is giving up his soul, to gain admission to, and fit in at, an Ivy.</p>

<p>However, I know other kids who happen to be very intelligent and gained admission to an Ivy while following their passions and having a childhood.</p>

<p>Whether it’s all worth it depends on the student. You could write a similar post about becoming an Elite gymnast or a Navy Seal or whatever.</p>

15

<p>Typical C.C. attacks. The OP made a cogent point about the selectivity game that the colleges play to drive down the admissions rate? Instead of arguing facts, the petulant resort to personal attacks. The OP has logically argued the system is broken and that it is his/her right not to play the game. For those who wish to argue, stop the attacks, and sticks with the facts. GL arguing that the system is not broken.</p>

16

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<p>It means he doesn’t really have the qualifications and is preemptively making excuses. None of these schools is appealing in any way?</p>

17

<p>OP, just make sure that whereever your son lands, he doesn’t go in feeling superior to the other students. A lot of stellar students decide on other schools due to great merit aid, desire to stay close to home, desire to compete in a sport, or whatever.</p>

18

<p>It’s totally normal to not want to go to an Ivy League. Cornell was on the list for a week and then got booted off. The rest we were never attracted to.</p>

19

<p>It is ridiculous to support/denounce “the ivy league.” IT IS A SPORTS LEAGUE PEOPLE. Just an arbitrary group of 8 really good, really old schools. Each school in it will have pros and cons for each student. Unless you hate strong academic programs, you probably do not hate the entire ivy league as they are pretty diverse schools. Chill the **** out and help your son make his list. If he doesn’t like any schools that happen to be in the ivy league, newsflash, NO ONE CARES. If he does like some of those schools, see previous.</p>

20

<p>Re #16: That’s a cheap shot and just as dumb as the original post. There are plenty of bright kids who don’t find the Ivies appealing enough to apply to any of them. Some don’t want to live on the East Coast (perish the thought); some prefer smaller schools; and some people just really can’t stand hockey.</p>