We are done licking our wounds...HELP!!!!

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi all of you knowledgeable and compassionate parents~</p>

<p>First of all, get a cup of coffee/tea/whatever??: this is going to be LONG...</p>

<p>As some of you may know, my son was rejected in the EA round at Yale on Wednesday. It was, without doubt, the biggest blow he's ever suffered. His reaction scared me, and now, though he is mostly back to his old strong, confident self, the scars remain.</p>

<p>And I feel like a flippin' failure. I've never felt like this before in all of my years of parenting six children. I guess I've pretty much gotten off easy prior to this...</p>

<p>I'll spare you the emotional trauma I feel about allowing him to put himself in that no-win, destined-for-destruction position, but now, I need all of you capable people here to give me some advice.</p>

<p>Here it is in a nutshell~</p>

<p>My son decided at the outset that he wanted to try for some of the upper-tier schools. He is applying to Yale (an obvious bust), Stanford (I'll go out on a limb on the basis of Yale and call this one a bust too...), Cornell, UPenn, Brown, Duke, and JHU.</p>

<p>He is also applying to University of Michigan and our state school honors program (safety).</p>

<p>Now, this is why I feel like a failure. Despite knowing better, I let him create this very "top heavy" list. His reasoning....if he didn't get to attend one of those choices, then he'd <em>settle</em> for the state school, save the $ as he will probably get a good deal of merit aid there, and go for a more elite grad. school.</p>

<p>Now, though it's late, I am completely rethinking this issue (if it's not TOO late), and THAT is where your help comes in--PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?!</p>

<p>A brief description of my remarkable son: He is very balanced in his academic talents--equally able in both the verbal and mathematical areas. He has an ACT score of 34 (99th %ile, with a perfect 36 in English), and a 1460 S.A.T. I. </p>

<p>His interests: From about the age of 9, he has had a passionate interest in epidemiology/infectious diseases. He is a voracious reader on the subject and has been in contact with a local doctor who is the most renowned AIDS treatment practitioner in the region. This woman issued a stunning letter of recommendation (she has never done one for a h.s. student, only med. students as she is a faculty member at a school of medicine here) for his Yale app. and all the others too. </p>

<p>But, he is also an avid devotee of the law, an interest he's carried since 5th grade and for which he is a major natural (given his debate skills--he just qualified for NATIONALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! next summer in Philly!!!). </p>

<p>His plan at the moment is to get a pre-med or scientifically oriented undergrad. degree and then go on into law school in order to practice some type of medically related law or work for something like the CDC later.</p>

<p>Here come the questions: What do you think, in light of his interests, of the college list above, save for what we already know...that he basically has one match and one safety. <em>lol</em></p>

<p>What schools can you suggest for his interests that are more sure bets for him? Which are worth the out of state tuition (versus our state school)?</p>

<p>Will going to a less elite undergrad program hurt his chances of getting into an elite grad. school?</p>

<p>ANY comments and suggestions would be helpful. I feel like we are starting from square one...</p>

<p>Thanks in advance, all. ~berurah</p>

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<p>Hi Berurah -
WICONSIN???</p>

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<p>Washington University in St. Louis can be very good for pre-med or scientifically oriented undergrad. degree. They take common app, and the deadline is January 15, I think.</p>

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<p>Hey MotherOfTwo,</p>

<p>Thanks for responding!!!</p>

<p>Do you know anything about the sciences there? Do you think it would be worth the out of state tuition versus his getting some decent merit aid here? thanks!! ~berurah</p>

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<p>I don't know too much about it specifically, except, as I told you, my colleague got his bacherlor's and Ph.D. in a biological science field there (I forget his specialty in grad school, it might have been related to neuroscience). I know there are quite a few Nobel prize winners there and I think biological sciences are very strong. I would have to look it up to find out more, but it is definitely extremely well respected.</p>

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<p>I'll definitely put this on our list to to look at very carefully. When I ran it by him the first time, he was still living under the delusion that he might make it into an upper-tier...~berurah</p>

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<p>whoa...with a 1460 you think he has a bad shot at the top tier schools? I am frightened for myself then...</p>

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<p>Nothing wrong with his list given his profile. They are his reach schools. If you had sent out Michigan earlier, he would have had that acceptance in hand by now and it would have softened the blow. I suggest you get that app out ASAP as that is a rolling one, and though I think he will get in, it makes me nervous that you don't have it out yet. With state schools sometimes Einstein would not get in once the seats are filled and they do fill quickly at UMich. </p>

<p>You now need to look for some match and safety schools. Look at U of Indiana, Wisconsin, for some big state schools (yes, I am nervous that you did not get the Mich app out yet but I am not from there--talk to his counselor). Look for some schools like William and Mary, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, CMU as well. I would be wary of Wash U, the RD numbers I have seen for that school are tough. </p>

<p>Your son is a bright young man and if he gets a number of these apps out he will have some great choices come April. The admissions picture for some of these schools with a < 30% accept rate is dismal given the number of apps they are getting. And it is going to get worse for the next 3 cycles given the population curve.</p>

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<p>babybird...not specifically because of the score, but rather because of the nature of the beast of ivy admissions.</p>

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<p>In the Fiske Guide, it says that biological sciences is one of the strongest programs. I think some major discoveries that I learned about in undergrad and grad school were made by researchers at Wisconsin, but I am getting so old I forget what I learned so long ago :( I would think it would be equal or better than Michigan for his interests, but I am definitely not an expert on large Midwestern universities. It says in the Fiske guide that there are rolling admissions for Wisconsin with deadline of Feb. 1, but you should obviously check the official website.</p>

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<p>My daughter went to Wash U. Last year they had 22,000 applicants for a freshman class of 1300. It has an excellent reputation. Their actual med school is ranked one of the top in the country. Daughter has many friends who got into med school after doing undergrad there. That said, over 50% of kids start there as pre-med and many drop it after the first year. I think the pre-med courses are quite rigorous. </p>

<p>It is an excellent school, right below the Ivies. My daughter loved it, but please keep in mind that many qualified kids who do not get into the Ivies, end up applying there.</p>

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<p>If he would be happy at the state school honors program, you don't have anything to worry about. </p>

<p>You need to split the pre-med world from the grad school world. For pre-med, the best thing you can do is go to a program where you can truly excel. If you truly excel, you will likely get more research opportunities/internships/mentoring relationships than if you are simply the average student at an elite university. Your GPA may be higher, and you may be top of your class - and it will show up in admissions. More importantly - MOST importantly - you may have the money to pay for it. Over the past 25 years, the percentage of Yalies going on to med school in the year following graduation has declined from 17% to 6%. The quality of Yale students hasn't dropped; nor has the quality of education. Rather, for TOP students, the gap has radically narrowed, (and med school immediately upon graduation has become less desirable for Yale students, and Yale has become very jealous of its rate of acceptance of its undergrads into med school - all of the above applies.)</p>

<p>For grad schools, contacts count for a lot. Again, he will benefit if he is a top student at a mid-level school, though contacts with top schools are more easily established from the top undergrad feeders. </p>

<p>But is there a reason he isn't considering a top LAC? After all, they are known, if for nothing else, in having truly well-rounded students. Why not Amherst, whose flagship program is in Law, Jurisprudence, and Social Thought, but where you can get a topknotch pre-med education as well? And certainly has law, med, and grad school admit rates as high or higher than the other schools on the list? (of course, it is just as hard to get into Amherst as into, say, Brown, but it is another direction.) Bowdoin? Wesleyan?</p>

<p>Or why not Emory, which is close to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, with lots of internship opportunities?</p>

<p>I can't see why you should feel like a failure, though. He does have a safety. He does have a state university, and chances are he'll be getting into other places as well. Yale has a lot of good things going for it, but it is no utopia by any means, and they may have done your son a favor. (You'll know next year.) Hang in there.</p>

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<p>"I can't see why you should feel like a failure, though. He does have a safety."</p>

<p>I agree. A parent's job isn't to protect our kids from ever feeling failure. Our job is to help them develop the ability to bounce back from failures. Everyone will suffer setbacks in life. A teen/child who never suffers a setback will become an adult incapable of handling one when life knocks them down, and when parents are no longer at their side.</p>

<p>IMO, too, not getting into Yale is a high level "failure." Most students have no chance of getting into a college like that so don't even bother to apply. To have the background to apply to a place like Yale means that one has a very strong track record of success -- whether or not Yale accepts one.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I suggest that you and your son also take a close look at schools ranked 30-50 on the US News list. Several probably would be safety or good match schools. U of Rochester is one to look at. AI understand it's strong in the sciences, too, plus it even has a med school and merit aid.
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I'd say he has a pretty good shot at Cornell. He can also look into Georgtown, and some LACs such as Amherst, Williams, Middlebury etc. </p>

<p>btw, how does one become interested in infectious diseases at the age of 8?</p>

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<p>davidrune...</p>

<p>funny you should mention that...it was the subject of one of his essays. Basically, he read Old Yeller at the age of six and became absolutely obsessed with rabies!! From rabies----->AIDS-------->Ebola. He wrote off to the CDC at age 9 and they sent him two packets: one on biosafety level 4 viruses and one of the workings of the organization itself. He has always been an unusual child. His favorite book in third grade was The Hot Zone, which deals with the subject of Ebola. ~berurah</p>

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<p>Things look good for him, especially if he'll be happy at the state school.</p>

<p>jamimom mentioned W+M, while a glance over the majors will tell you that there is no "Pre-Med" major there, a very high percentage (I want to say ~80%) of students who apply to medical school from W+M get into their first choice program.</p>

<p>W+M would probably also give him a feel of the Ivies, population wise and such.</p>

<p>Most likely though, he will get into at least one of those schools on his list.</p>

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<p>mini,</p>

<p>Not much time to respond now, but I will respond more fully later. I don't think he will be "happy" at the state school--it is, after all, in Kansas <em>LOL</em>, and for some very personal reasons, I think he needs an entirely new perspective. But, he will be content there if he needs be. ~berurah</p>

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<p>Oh, and davidrune...</p>

<p>I thought you might find this amusing: Guess what I found to give him for the holidays? There is this company that sells stuffed (plush) microbes, among them AIDS and Ebola. I bought them for him, along with Black Death (which, unfortunately, is on backorder--ha ha, he's not the ONLY one!) and a couple of really good books on AIDS and Ebola. ~berurah</p>

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<p>Has he thought about Case Western in Cleveland? It's very strong in the sciences and had a number of Nobel winners on the faculty when we toured a few years ago. It's adjacent to a top-notch medical center and has a well-regarded medical school as well as a law school. It's considered a fine research university, especially in medicine.</p>

<p>CWRU is ranked in the US News top tier, has very impressive science facilities, and is known to be generous with merit aid. My daughter liked it A LOT (it was second on her list), and both of us thought the campus was terrific. It's urban, but not intensely so, and is located near the medical center, several museums, a symphonic hall, etc. There was a lot of green around, and the campus has a very well-engineered feel. I thought their library was one of the best I've seen.</p>

<p>I believe it would be something of a safety for your son, and, as I recall, it's a common app school without a very arduous supplement.</p>

<p>I've also gotta say I don't understand why your son wasn't at the very least deferred, considering the excellent recommendation from his mentor in an unusual field. That can't be something the Yale adcoms see everyday.</p>

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<p>jamimom...</p>

<p>I, too, am nervous about the michigan app. not being in yet. That is the NEXT one going! He really likes Michigan, and my dh is from there. ~berurah</p>