<p>So, I’m pretty er…ticked off right now because I got a lot of people (3) telling both me and my mom that I only got in because of gender quotas usafa’s trying to meet. Which, quite naturally, made me angry, because I believe everyone who got in got in by merit, not because of race or gender.</p>
<p>So, my question is: Is there any truth to that? Is there any affirmative action, so to speak, in play?</p>
<p>¡muchas gracias!</p>
<p>?!?</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Although the ratio is usally about the same from year to year (although your class's will probably be higher than most others, since it's been on the rise for the past few years), you get in b/c of who you are...not because USAFA is trying to fill a quota. The ratio is because (generally), fewer females apply to USAFA then males. The ratio comes b/c of the number of females who come, not b/c it's predetermined.</p>
<p>I really doubt that the U.S. government is going to invest millions of dollars and years of time in training you to be an Air Force officer just so that it can use you as a statistic. The way I see it, if you got in, you got in by your own merit. Be proud! </p>
<p>Just my two cents...</p>
<p>heehee
now i have confirmation of my suspicions...
i was just worked up, but now i'm done. :D</p>
<p>i read that "ethnic diversity" was "encouraged". i dont know what that means, but it could apply to gender diversity as well. however, like AFA2B said, the government isn't going to invest that much time and money on you unless you truly are something else.</p>
<p>If USAFA was trying to meet a gender quota and they ran out of qualified female applicants, what would they do? Take a person who could not succeed here? That is nonsense. missmuff-- you deserve your appointment and that is that. </p>
<p>Ignorance is bliss.</p>
<p>I am positive that they do want a balance of men and women, however, that is not a reflection of you at all. If you look at statistics, you would still be higher than all of the other women even if they had a certain quota. In the end though, you were the best qualified candidate from your nominating source, end of subject, period, dot!</p>
<p>What you are hearing is sour grapes from people who didn't get the slot, or they didn't get their dream school. Throw their opinions in the garbage can and show them that you are the best officer that the AF can have regardless of race or sex.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Race:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The primary sources for the nation’s officer corps are the service academies and the ROTC, the latter comprised of students already admitted to participating colleges and universities. At present, the military cannot achieve an officer corps that is both highly qualified and racially diverse unless the service academies and the ROTC use limited race-conscious recruiting and admissions policies. Accordingly, these institutions rely on such policies
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is a great report which explains the necessity for ethnic diversity.</p>
<p>That is a ridiculous argument, and I don't believe it's true. Missmuff, I don't even care what your statistics are, because I can see one thing that's more important: your attitude.</p>
<p>The fact that you want to be here badly, have worked hard to get here, and are excited to come here is crucial. If you can keep that attitude up through 4 years at the Academy and love this place while you're here, have positive things to say, and be excited for the future...then you're already more qualified than 50% of the cadets ALREADY HERE. Trust me on that one.</p>
<p>If you can fight the cynicism and serve your country with a smile on your face while you're here, you're already top-notch, no matter what your statistics. You're already accepted (for your stats), so now this is your challenge. And trust me, it's a tough one. But it's one worth pursuing.</p>
<p>Okay here's the deal (speaking as a woman)...there will always be people in your career that will say you got XXXX b/c you are a woman.</p>
<p>Let me give you a real life example:</p>
<p>Jeannie Flynn was the poster girl for women getting into fighters, the AF brought her out for publicity...(1st woman fighter pilot) she was on national tv, AF Times cover, and if memory serves me right Time or Newseek cover. (this was about the same time the Citadel was being sued to allow women in). </p>
<p>Jeannie is now an LTC, commanding an FTU squadron, she arrived here and quickly got a command. Many people were upset about this because they felt she got it b/c she was a woman. </p>
<p>People forget that she is an accomplished pilot and leader, she filled her squares just like the others, yet, they think because she was the 1st that the AF is playing a PC game. This may be true, but than again it might not be...nobody here can say yea or nay only much higher paygrades can say whether it is true. The fact is that she is in command and from what I understand nobody is kvetching about her b/c she is a woman, they are kvetching about her like they do with anyother commander!</p>
<p>If you believe that you got in because you are a woman or worried that people think it, you can do 1 of 2 things...coast and hope that the AFA will give you a free ride for being one (wouldn't reccommend this) or 2 use this as a motivation to prove to yourself and everyone else that you deserve this appt regardless if you have 2 XX chromosones or 1 Y.</p>
<p>I know for Bullet he respects every officer and never sees them for being a women or a man. He can see that in Jeannie's case, yes, she got a leg up for being the 1st female, but what she has done after that was on her own steam! The AF will not risk another life in the flying world just so they have a woman in the squadron. When the plane has their wheels in the well, it is about how you command the jet, not how you will use a pittle pack!</p>
<p>Now I will also state that I personally do have issues with the AF policy that women are allowed different requirements for PFT and other things. Here is my reason why: </p>
<p>I am positive that there are girls that can out run my son or husband, so why is there a different time?</p>
<p>If you get to water survival, as a woman you have different reqs. for pulling somebody out of the water. In reality if a jet goes down in the pond in a 2 seater 1 of the crewmates might have to pull the other person into the life raft due to multiple reasons...think about it, a 6'4 guy can pull out a 5'6 women easier than the opposite scenario. Bullet is 5'11 and 190 lbs., as his wife and mother of his children I want to be guaranteed that she can do it...by allowing a women to do less then a guy, it is not realistic to what might happen...is my husbands life just not worth raising the bar to an equal std.</p>
<p>BTW I feel the same about this issue for police and fire, and evry other aspect of society. If you want to play ball with the boys, than don't ask for special consideration. By allowing woman to have different physical reqs. where it matters (when you are running away from the enemy, you both neeed to run equally fast, otherwise you are endangering your crew mate by going slower, by not being forced to carry the same dead weight as a guy the same is true). I am for women in the service in every aspect, even combat, but we need to stop the lower limitations</p>
<p>I may be out of touch and idealistic, but I am realistic, in the next 20 yrs., you will deal with jets going down...you all need to be able to get out and that requires physical abilities. Getting into the AFA demanded different aspects.</p>
<p>Missmuff I fear some of my daughters pessimism may have worn off over orientation JK :) You and all of your fellow candidates were evaluated using the same measure. Some came up short others did not. There is a girl from here that potter, her ALO, and I talked with. By all accounts she was a solid candidate, but she did not get in. She comes from a military family, and was familiar with the process. When everything was boiled down at the Academy they saw something, and she will not be joining you.</p>
<p>You were appointed becuase you are a candidate the Academy believes has the potential to succeed. That said you have an obligation too. There will be classmates who believe women do not have a place in the Academy. That is what happens when you fill a place with a lot of testosterone, and type "A" personalities. Do not let them shape your opinion, or make you cynical about your place. </p>
<p>Potter is as you have seen a very petite young lady. She struggled earlier in the year with a couple of classmates that were not behaving like gentlemen should, and displayed the "you don't belong here attitude". She pressed through despite them. What they failed to see was the strength she brings to the table (demonstrated by the Star & Lightning bolt she hides instead of wearing). They only saw what they wanted to see. Shre doesn't have the most forcefull personality, and that magnified things. She pressed on though, and eventually things turned. </p>
<p>Dont ever let anyone tell you that you haven't earned the right to your appointment. Now you need to focus on earning the right to call yourself "Cadet", and keep your eyes looking forward, not to the past.</p>
<p>And just throwing it out there... Females here do not have it easier than males. Maybe that's why a lot more females have left my class than males. I'm not a feminist person at all, but you will face challenges as a female cadet here that your male counterparts will never have to deal with. It's just part of the Academy.</p>
<p>I would believe that ^^^</p>
<p>In the end of the day remember you, potter and redhead will be making the path for more women and all you have to do is to show the XY chromosome has nothing to do with being the best officer!</p>
<p>So far, not one single person has ever said a word to my D about her gender/getting an Appointment. Honestly, it never even occured to me until I read Missmuff's post that some might think that.....that's a shame Missmuff and don't you even for one second start believing it! If you're like my D then you have worked your #$$ off to get where you are now! For TWO entire years my D didn't come up for air as she finished high school in two years! ... In the meantime she was driving between 3 different schools for sports, JROTC, and then after school busy with 10 other things! ...when she does come up for air she dives right back in for more.... I have watched her run herself ragged and then some so I just dare some brave soul to even try to get away with such a lame, demoralizing and sexist comment! Flymom's got her claws out!</p>
<p>Missmuff, you earned your spot, now go make us proud!!!!..and my D will be right there with ya! :)</p>
<p>Yes, the standards are lower in some areas (PFT, AFT, PE classes, etc.) for females here, and we can debate that without ever getting anywhere. But redhead is right in that women face unique challenges here, one of the biggest being the dominant male attitude toward them...I honestly believe that 75% of the men here treat the women (whether openly or behind closed doors) in a shameful manner unworthy of future officers who should (in my opinion) be gentlemen as well. (Important to note that a smaller percentage treat ALL women this way...something I can't stand.)</p>
<p>I'm very glad that my sister does not want to come here...I wouldn't want her to for this reason. I have a couple close female friends here who have told me about some of the ways they've been treated (aside from all the jokes and banter that is commonplace) as "one of the guys" or as being less of a woman (this may sound weird, but it's true) as civilian girls, and it frustrates me to no end...perhaps my conviction of treating women well and being a gentleman is a bit unusual in today's unfortunate culture, but I think there's too little of respect for the women here.</p>
<p>Yes, the women who come here should be tough and ready to play ball, as bullet so aptly put it. But that doesn't mean the men can drop their duty as gentlemen. </p>
<p>So bottom line, that's a tough challenge to consider, and the women who put up with it, stay strong, and keep their pride and happiness in this place despite all that deserve some respect, regardless of how you feel about women in the military, or the standards, etc.</p>
<p>Now flymom,</p>
<p>I was hoping you would give a different motivational speech!</p>
<p>My hope was that you would speak about a mutual aviator. This mutual aviator defended the strike (which jet is better air to air or air to ground) When they did, it quickly got back to our base (1 commander is an ex-TBird). </p>
<p>Now to the rest of you all, this aviator is A) a female, B) a Strike Eagle Pilot My point is that she fought hard to get into the Thunderbirds, and everyone in the Strike knows that she deserved it and earned it!</p>
<p>I have personally met flymom's daughter and spoken to her. From what little I know of her, she earned that appt. not because she was a girl, but because she was the very best candidate. I personally know of a guy that was accepted with an SAT of just over 1700 out of 2400, his gpa was under 3.2 for uw. ---not speaking of our DS he had 2120 and a 3.47 uw</p>
<p>So flymom is right if you question your spot, realize that there are others who got in with lower stats, and they are guys!</p>
<p>BTW be thankful to all of the women before you who have proven that we are as capable of commanding people as a guy :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
By allowing woman to have different physical reqs. ......
[/quote]
</p>
<p>perhaps out in the Air Force airmen should not have different regs based on age. A 36 year old should be able to run as fast as a 22 year old.</p>
<p>missmuff - Go to the AFA and go proudly that you EARNED your appointment. There have been naysayers for 30 years - (I lived through the 70's) but do not allow then to be detractors.</p>
<p>yes the academies recruit women (and minorities) - however recruiting and encouraging women to apply is NOT analogous to admitting unqualified folks.<br>
All the academies have a goal - that is to have the same representation of female officers as female enlisted. Traditionally (until the last few years) that number has been lopsided with many more female enlisted. The Services have gone out of their way to encourage and recruit qualified women to become officers in the military. This actually has served to increase the compeition among women. Believe me - if you did not deserve your appointment you would not be getting it.</p>
<p>Not all Congressional districts have the same amount of competition - some kids will have an easier chance of getting in since the competition is less - this does not mean they are unqualified or less deserving of their appointment.</p>
<p>You cannot control other people - just go be the best cadet you can be.
Good Luck!</p>
<p>G4C was right on in what he said. I'm so happy someone gets it! haha :)</p>
<p>But to put your mind at rest, basically all cadets assume that if you're here, it's because you earned it and deserve to be here, regardless of gender.</p>
<p>Oh yes Pima, you are right on, reminding us of that particular FEMALE pilot, Maj. Malachowski.... </p>
<p>And if she were adding to this conversation she would remind us of the female pilots who flew before her. If you ask her who her heroes are she would say the WASPs, that THEY paved the way for her. She's awesome to listen to because she speaks about this very subject when she lectures. You can see her latest lecture here: National</a> Air and Space Museum - Webcast Archive </p>
<p>I'm sad that the respect for females is not yet where it needs to be at the Academy, but with that said, I have spoken to three female grads recently who all say they would allow their own daughters to attend, so that says a lot to me. </p>
<p>Personally if I had an appointment in my hand, I wouldn't let ANYONE make me feel as if I hadn't earned it.</p>
<p>And just one more thing, if you're trying to watch that archived lecture link that I gave above, be patient. It plays for awhile then stops and gives an error message, just watch the minute counter and you can re-start it where it stops. This happens several times but it's so worth putting up with because she is so inspirational..AND she has footage from inside her cockpit--fabulous footage!! I believe the museum purposely does this so you cannot copy it.</p>