<p>I know this will be unpopular but I think you really want Wheaton and are convincing yourself to go to Knox because of the money. As calmom said, you you have worked very hard to be financially responsible in your selection of schools and your parents have told you they can handle either school financially so go where you truly want to go - Wheaton. Every conversation on line says Wheaton is your preferred school were it not for the financial concerns, but your parents have said not to worry about that. So go with your first choice, which is usually the correct one, Wheaton.</p>
<p>And if you choose Wheaton you won’t have to listen to the “I told you so’s” from your dad every time you say anything negative about Knox.</p>
<p>I agree with amtc, about your having come across as really wanting to attend Wheaton. I do disagree that both of your parents feel that they can afford Wheaton. It sounds like your father says he can afford Wheaton, but your mother is not so sure. I know it is a bitter pill to swallow, but I think that jym’s post #98 is very much on target. Please read post 98, and then reread it a few times before making your decision.</p>
<p>FWIW, you need to face the fact that at college, earning a 3.0 is not easy for all students to accomplish. Some % will lose their merit award. What happens if you end up with a 2.9 and lose your merit award? </p>
<p>I have seen parents pay for freshman year, but parents could not keep the pace of paying tuition beyond freshman year even when students kept their merit awards intact. Those students had to transfer somewhere less costly (ie: instate public), or had to take time off from college to work for min. wage and then transfer to a less expensive school. Some had to work and go to school PT and move back home with their parents. I am not saying that this will happen to you, but it is something to consider.</p>
<p>I agree: read #98 a few times before making a decision.</p>
<p>Since I’m one of those rude, snobby New Englanders, I’m going to be blunt.</p>
<p>FWIW, Wheaton used to be a women’s college where the student parking lot was full of Volvos, and the academic standards were respectable but far from outstanding. Lots of preps and haute suburbs. Not the best students. (I knew a number of people there very well. It was my safety school, since I noted that they accepted every single applicant with my SAT scores, no matter what the grades.) Presumably, coeducation has had some effect on this, but I predict that if you go there you will soon be back here complaining about how everyone else is from Greenwich and has more money than you do (even though it won’t be true…), and how difficult it is to get to Boston and how Providence has nothing to do. If you go to Wheaton, I advise you to immediately sign up for whatever help you can get with your writing, which although often expressive is full of awful grammatical errors. You will need to do this, and keep your nose to the grindstone, in order to make sure that you do not lose your merit money.</p>
<p>Knox is not a school I know a lot about, except that it was founded by idealists and reportedly had/has a great theater program. It sounds interesting to me, albeit isolated. If you go there, I expect you to be back here soon complaining about how isolated it is, how everyone is from the Midwest, and so forth. If you go there, I would also advise that you sign up for help with your writing.</p>
<p>In either case, you should try to keep an open mind about differences, and possibly even–gasp!–learn from them. You should also strive not to excuse your rudeness and tendency to stereotype others as simply part of who you are. We ALL need to constantly strive to be better people and to grow. It disturbs me that you still refuse to accept any responsibility for the French debacle, and blame it all on your host family.</p>
<p>I feel for you, since you are caught in the situation described in #98. Good luck.</p>
<p>Knox is in Galesburg, which is a 3-hour drive from Chicago. However, there is Amtrak service to Chicago with station in downtown Galesburg within walking distance of campus, which is easy access. Knox has many ties to Chicago, and many Chicago-area students attend. Chicagoans are equally assertive as New Yorkers, if speaking of stereotypes - perhaps even more so, based on my native Chicago experiences coupled w/6 years in NYC area.</p>
<p>Galesburg is economically depressed, but surviving better than Earlham’s Richmond. Town of Galesburg is very supportive of its college and there are strong town-gown ties - not always case for college towns. I’ve spoken to many Chicago-area parents who’ve done the Richmond-Galesburg-Beloit circuit, and all agree that Richmond looks the worst of the bunch. DH said it reminded him of “Bates Motel” and said it was very depressing based on his touring many Midwest LAC towns. Midwest LACs have a tendency to be located in Rust Belt declining industrial towns. Advantage in Beloit and Galesburg is that contain very low-priced housing, whether purchased or rented.</p>
<p>We toured Knox, and frankly I didn’t think their library was any dustier than the other LAC libraries. It actually contained students studying, which wasn’t always case at other LACs. Campus isn’t the prettiest; a tree-planting campaign is needed and their endowment is relatively small. Students looked content, not frazzled. I’d pick Knox in your situation anyways.</p>
<p>EC: I’ve checked back on your posts regarding “isolation”. You’re likely to get many invites to Chicago from Chicago-based students, will learn the Amtrak schedule, and will be able to plan weekends in Chicago when you get cabin fever. I suspect you can head to St Louis as easily, as well as other Amtrak destinations. Don’t discount that Amtrak station. Also, it’s easy to have a car on Knox campus, but not necessary.</p>
<p>And Chicago as a great youth hostel in downtown Chicago.</p>
<p>
…And, you will need one to go places from Wheaton, too. Wheaton students do not hang out in Boston as someone has led you to believe.</p>
<p>Truthfully, I have a feeling that no matter where you end up, you will be unhappy. You seem to have a habit of blaming others for your unhappiness. Plus, the discussion has brought up a lot of ridiculous aspects of college life that you dislike. Really, how many other students have we heard talking about a “dusty library” or “hot girls” in regards to a particular school.</p>
<p>I hope you figure this out for yourself, but I truly suspect you will be on CC complaining about whichever school you finally choose.</p>
<p>And, yes, I am a “northerner” too.</p>
<p>PS: You might want to ask your Dad where the “smart women” are going the next time the issue of “hot girls” comes up.</p>
<p>OP, my daughter is currently a sophomore at Wheaton and really loves it there. You are welcome to PM me if you have specific questions I might be able to answer. I don’t have any personal knowledge of Knox, so I can’t compare the two.</p>
<p>One thing I will say is that it’s quite easy to be at Wheaton without a car- or so my daughter tells me! She has taken the train down to Providence (20 minutes) a number of times, and she’s been to Boston (45 minutes) several times too. The GATRA (not sure what that stands for- it’s a little bus) picks students up right on campus and takes them to the train station in Mansfield, where they can easily get a train to Boston or Providence. She loves the fact that Wheaton is a small community in a small town, but “the big city” is easily accessible.</p>
<p>We are definitely NOT wealthy, and she has to keep a 3.0 to maintain her merit scholarship- but so far so good. There are certainly many wealthy students there (as there would be at any private college costing >$50,000/yr) but also many scholarship students. Our daughter has friends on both sides of the coin! The financial aid office has worked with us to make it affordable, and our daughter became an RA this year, which has also helped with costs.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision- it sounds like you have 2 great choices. :)</p>
<p>Your college experience won’t be determined by the campus or the buildings, but by the people you meet there. I lived in the quad at Knox for three years – the dorms were old then and they’re older now, but they’re built for socialization and if you’re living anywhere in the quad it’s impossible not to get to know people. (My senior year I lived in Williston, but it might be more accurate to say I lived in the Science & Math Center).</p>
<p>Knox promotes a sense of community in everything it does, from the Pumphandle the evening before classes in the fall to First-Year Preceptorial to Flunk Day in the spring. Involvement with theater and the school newspaper will also lead to stronger relationships with people in classes ahead of you and behind you. Knox’s Rep Term is an amazing experience, and the creative writing community at Knox is huge for a LAC. Frat parties are generally open to anyone, and always serve non-alcoholic drinks. I had friends in all the frats despite not being in one myself. Knox football is more of a fun community event – the football players aren’t BMOC’s. You don’t even have to be good to play on a Knox team, you just have to be better than Monmouth. 
Or in my case on the track team, not. :(</p>
<p>BTW, I went through Pumphandle with a Michael Moorcock book sticking out of my jacket pocket, and made friends with common interests before the first day of classes. Just wear something to Pumphandle that gives others a clue about you, and your network of friends at Knox will already be off to a great start.</p>
<p>spdf- You’re comment on Monmouth made me laugh. And about the library- I thought it was one of the prettiest ones I have ever seen. I wanted to curl up with a book in one of those “dusty” nooks.</p>
<p>
Just want to remind everyone that EC made clear that he has a strong dust allergy. As someone who grew up with severe allergies myself, I have to say that it it’s not a matter of being prissy, it’s really is a matter of feeling physically ill. For me it was sneezing, coughing, itchy ears & throat, red & itchy eyes, etc.</p>
<p>That being said – I went to a college in an area where my allergies were equally bad – (I seem to be more allergic to outdoor pollens, like grass & weeds – indoor dust didn’t bother me) – and I did just fine. When I was young, the only antihistimines available caused drowsiness, and I grew up having a hard time because I always had to be on strong doses, & switch off between meds to keep them effective… and it was hard to stay awake & pay attention in class. Also, the stuff I needed was only available by prescription. </p>
<p>That has changed. I’ve outgrown my allergies so I don’t take anything any more, but I believe that products like Allegra are now available over the counter and can be very effective without causing drowsiness or other side-effects – so the dusty library & dorms might be a problem that EC can solve relatively easily with a pill. </p>
<p>I’d also note that if EC and his siblings do have dust allergies, it’s very possible that his parents have been proactive in providing an allergen-free home environment. EC may be very used to living in an extremely clean house – which may in turn explain why he is quick to notice when environments aren’t up to his mom’s housekeeping standards. That is something that might change when he is living away, as he quickly become accustomed to whatever is the norm in his new location. However, it is something he should consider with dorm assignments – if he wants a clean and orderly living environment, he might note that on any roommate questionnaire he is given, and consider substance-free dorm options to the extent they are available, to avoid potential roommate problems down the line. (That’s one issue that really can’t be anticipated or avoided anywhere – but it is something to think about)</p>
<p>Thats so nice of you to have seemingly taken on the role as E-C’s spokesperson, calmom. I think many many of us have lived with severe allergies and yes, in this day of many over-the-counter and prescription remedies, inhalers, and what have you, there are many ways to manage and live with these discomforts. Now training up roommates not to be slobs, thats another matter entirely </p>
<p>But thats really not relevant. The library wasn’t the deal-breaker in this college toss-up. Many many posters have taken their time and energy to try to be helpful and address the many issues that were raised, whether that help offered was appreciated or heard or not. </p>
<p>What I would have liked to have seen more of (and its not too late) were more of these questions about the schools that have surfaced since the campus visits, being asked in the Knox and Wheaton forums. The posters there, and the few here who fortunately can speak from personal experience from having attended these schools, can best answer many of the questions the OP has about the student body and its “fit”, since he says that is what is most important to him. IMO, if E-C has questions about the students, the classes, the faculty, the degree of engagement of the students, the availability of the faculty, the nitty gritty of the theatrical programs, the amount of time the students spend on-off campus, etc, those questions can better be answered in those forums, even if they are less active forums.</p>
<p>For those of us parents who cannot help in that regard, we tend to respond to what we are “hearing”, directly or indirectly in the posts, and also to the financial concerns that have been raised many times by the OP. We are parents. We worry. About our own kids and other kids. They may not appreciate how we say what we say, or may not want to hear what some parents here are saying, but it is being said out of genuine concern. </p>
<p>E-C , too, seems to be a worrier. So, maybe its time to embrace it, to use that tendency to worry, to think “what if” and let it help you decide.</p>
<p>So EC, if you are listening, I would ask you to both consider and answer here: Think worst case scenario. What if you could only spend one year, or at most 2, at one of these schools and then your parents couldn’t afford to let you stay, and you had to transfer back closer to home. If you could only have spent one or 2 years at one of these schools, which school would it be?</p>
<p>My guess is that he chose Wheaton. </p>
<p>What’s your guess?</p>
<p>A toss up! I just don’t want to see EC on here in October saying he hates it and needs to transfer! I have a kid at Wheaton & we are not wealthy either, so we know of two students at Wheaton who don’t come from wealthy New England families! :)</p>
<p>Most schools have a form you can turn into housing to ask for allergy-reducing housing placement (no carpet, A/C usually). Just wanted to point out that severe allergies can not always be remedied completely with medications. I have a daughter that takes over the counter meds in addition to prescription meds, but does have to have the filtering of an A/C unit. My youngest has asthma and it’s a much more severe situation. When it’s time for him to head off to college, the housing will be a very crucial factor unfortunately. </p>
<p>Also, as superficial as it is for the Dad to mention “hot girls”, this topic is not new LOL! Let’s keep in mind that these applicants are TEENAGERS. All the Collegeprow books even give a rating for the attractiveness of each school as given by their own students. I think responders are being overly sensitive. </p>
<p>EC has done an amazing thing here. He applied to 17 schools and was admitted to 13 with merit awards. He has worked very hard to get into a college his family can afford. I am impressed by his determination! I don’t think it’s unusual to be struggling with the final college decision when it’s down to two schools. I know my oldest waited all the way until the May 1 deadline --it’s a tough decision! I wish EC nothing but the best…</p>
<p>So it seems there is not “one right answer.”
FWIW, probably not definitive, I think you will find friends wherever you go. The whole NY attitude may be abrasive anywhere, even in NY, but you might mature a bit and learn to temper it. I notice that sometimes the people who are in-your-face outspoken can be people who are actually a bit anxious. Therefore they can’t be chill about stuff going on around them. </p>
<p>The importance of this decision is, understandably, creating anxiety. Try a little mental imagery. If you picture yourself standing in or traveling to Galesburg or Norton, does one feel more calm than the other? </p>
<p>My impression about Knox is that there is more effort to create “community.”
Haven’t seen the student body, just my nephew. My sister says his friends are very caring and supportive of each other. </p>
<p>Wheaton students seem more reserved, but that’s New England. Soccer is taken seriously and I think many students participate in some athletic club. They appear fairly fit and active.</p>
<p>Probably unrelated to EC, who doesn’t plan to play a varsity sport, but I conjecture that the following is unlikely to have happened at Knox:</p>
<p>When S attended a Wheaton preseason sports clinic, he had a concussion during play and received no medical attention. He could barely walk straight, ended up in ER after parents realized the severity. The kid was in bad shape and asked to be out of the game. No trainers at the event. The sports medical issue maybe specific to the coach involved, but I doubt that it would happen at Knox. Family members involved with Knox have described a more nurturing environment.</p>
<p>In the end, I still like Wheaton a lot. I think it is just a bit more reserved than Knox.</p>
<p>Best of luck EC! You will be fine!</p>
<p>Am very aware of allergies and allergy/asthma management. It seems to be being raised as a bigger issue here by posters other than E-C, and if it was going to be such a concern for housing, it would probably have been mentioned earlier. Regardless, if it is really the deal maker or breaker for this college decision, then it should be addressed and whether or not either school can provide satisfactory accomodations for these health concerns should be a priority and perhaps <em>the</em> deciding factor, but methinks its not by any means the major issue here, and more likely a side note, and a digression from the main concern.</p>
<p>Ditto for the “hot girls” issue. There have been posters in the past who have also expressed their opinion about an <em>adult male</em> (aka the dad, not the student) making these kinds of comments about female HS’ers (mentioned in the past on cc) or college coeds. Its kinda icky. And if my DH ever said that to either of my s’s when they were looking at schools he’d have heard the same reaction from me. But it is also being blown out of proportion here. The poster above who said the appropriate question should be “where are the smart girls” gets a “like” for that post. Spot on. But again, this is all a digression.</p>
<p>I would still like to know from EC, if he could only spend a year or 2 at the most at one of these schools, which would it be? Trying to make this college decision by going round and round with essentially the same list of pros/cons over and over again is only likely to be an exercise in frustration for EC. Might help to look at it from a different perspective.</p>
<p>Well, I can agree that the “hot girls” issue is nothing but a side issue.</p>
<p>As far as allergies are a problem, this is only something that only E_C can answer. Also, keep in mind that another area of the country can kick up allergies as well. One might not konw until living on the campus. We learned that with one of our sons. S has always had an allergy problem and it is a lot worse in the area where the college is located. He learned to cope, I was wondering how it would work out, but it was dealt with. Also, when I say it was bad, it was pretty bad. He did require seeing several different doctors, and by trial and error he learned how to keep it under control.</p>
<p>I am back today, posting because I felt I was a little “harsh” yesterday with E_C. I thought more about his predicament today. Truth is: he is very perceptive (maybe overly so.) He thinks, and thinks, and thinks some more…</p>
<p>But, at some point, one must sh** or get off the pot, as the saying goes. It seems that he has a couple of excellent choices, both with plusses and minusses. Actually, I believe he will be fine with either choice. </p>
<p>Having put so much research and time into his college search, that it must seem so WRONG for it all to come down to a coin toss. But that is what it seems to be. He would likely find similar folks at either school. I hope that he can just “let go” and choose. He needs to simply pick a school and never look back. I hope it works out for him; I really do…</p>