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ID - your posts really do reveal your attitude that nothing less than a pure LAC is acceptable at the elite schools - you are sooo wrong.
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<p>You are reading something into my posts that isn't there. I fully understand that a liberal arts education is not for everyone. I certainly don't make any value judgements about schools that mix vocational/professional programs into a liberal arts curriculum. My own daughter's school is not a "pure" liberal arts college -- it has an engineering program.</p>
<p>I raised the issue for two reasons:</p>
<p>a) I wanted to make sure that Sushi (and more importantly, her daughter) understood that you by no means need an undergrad business degree to pursue a business career. It don't think it's a given that all 17 year olds fully understand that. I thought Barron's tree-hugger comment was way off the mark since most liberal arts colleges are feeder schools into business careers.</p>
<p>b) I wanted to explain why Sushi is going to find very few top LACs that offer a business major. W&L is the only one that comes to mind. I think it's great that W&L offers a "business" major. I think it's difficult to find a wide array of similarly selective LACs that do, just like it's difficult to find very selective LACs that offer an engineering major. Both are exceptions rather than the rule.</p>
<p>BTW, you are also reading too much into my term "elite". I'm not using it in a "snooty" sense. I'm simply using it as descriptive phrase for the most selective three or four dozen colleges and universities in the country. Notice that I also refered exclusively to private colleges and universities. Many superb public universities offer undergrad business degrees, as well as nursing, architecture, agriculture and many other vocational/professional programs. Few of them offer the "LAC undergrad experience" that Sushi mentioned.</p>
<p>ID - ok - ty for clarifying your meaning - makes alot more sense when put in the language above and I think addresses the OP's inquiring mind in a much better light as well - informative at least.</p>
<p>I do wish you would refrain from using the vocational reference to seperate the educational layers tho - those of us in very professional careers are the direct result of an education that was/is not as top heavy in liberal arts - tho have required la's to make us a bit more well rounded. Yes - there are many educational opportunities which are truly vocational - and do not include any liberal arts what so ever and to where that label would be appropriate. I personally disagree with your description as it refers to 'vocational' and would appreciate a bit respect in that area - definitely in the professional arena. tyia</p>
<p>Once you get past the top 20 LAC's the recruiting from the big IB's and consulting frims drops off the table. Even at the top 20 I doubt the majority or even 25% go directly into business jobs. Grads from the myriad LAC's after the top 20 often have a very difficult time finding good entry level business jobs and often endup in sales or marketing type jobs. We have hired so many of them as temps it seems to be a very common.</p>
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often endup in sales or marketing type jobs
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<p>What's wrong with that? Many people have started in a sales/marketing job and worked their way up to the executive suite. In fact, back when "business" meant making and selling widgets instead of leveraged buyouts and stock options, that was perfectly normal route. Personally, I think the US business world would be much better off if smart, well-educated young people did get their hands dirty actually building and selling products -- but I realize that's decidedly old-school.</p>
<p>And, lets be honest. If you get an undergrad business degree from second or third tier college or university, I don't think that Salomon Bros. recruiters are going to be beating your door down for a Wall Street job just because you have a "business" degree.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with selling but many people find the idea of cold-calling and fighting to meet quotas not quite what they had in mind as a job. </p>
<p>Having spent more time than I care to with IBers in a professional sense, many people who know something about the field would rather do just about anything else.</p>
<p>UUUMMM NO mention of not wanting frat scene in the OP tho does comment on frat major later - that does not mean does not want completely - but ............. o well - hard to find the 'perfect' place. Participating in the frat scene is a choice - and at some schools being and Independant can be just as 'fun' as being greek - and yes - W&L does have a big greek scene - which in alot of respects is quite different than most schools - but also has a good Independant scene as well - a choice!!</p>
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Nothing wrong with selling but many people find the idea of cold-calling and fighting to meet quotas not quite what they had in mind as a job
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<p>I can't think of any reason a wet-behind-the-ears 21 year old with no real experience should expect to land exactly what they had in mind for a perfect job fresh out of college -- whether they graduate from Harvard or Podunk Community College.</p>
<p>We hire one or two a year as analyst-trainees for our little group of 10-12 and it's a good job withan even better future. Without living in NY and/or working 80 hours a week they can easily be into six figures after the two year training is over. One is in Fiji right now on a job by herself after just over two years and she will probably make $150,000 this next year in her third year out of college. Business grad U Washington.</p>
<p>Washington and Lee grads have very high numbers in the Fortune 500...too lazy to look the % up, but many go straight into business. Wake Forest University delivers a LAC education but has a well-known accounting track that is lauded for the high % of undergrads who can pass the rigorous accting exams. Acct firms of national stature routinely hire Wake grads as soon as they graduate. University of Virginia has 11,000 undergrads and a strong liberal arts atmosphere. Entry into their undergrad business school takes place about half-way through the four years, and is competitive but many are hired into business jobs on graduation.</p>
<p>Jeep - THANK YOU for post #22. I hate it when people knock my degree as being "vocational." Yes, I went to business school, but close to half of my curriculum was in the liberal arts and I was at an Ivy... It's an intellectual experience people!</p>
<p>To most it implies a typical post HS vocational school which is where you learning plumbing, beauty care, body work etc. I think MOST people see it that way.</p>