<p>What are the strongest languages at Amherst? I’m trying to decide between French, spanish, and arabic. How does taking arabic work since there isn’t a department at amherst? Also, I’ve heard that the spanish department is one of the weakest at Amherst, does anyone know if this is true? Are the french professors really that much better than the spanish ones?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>This is a late response, but I’m also really interested in languages. I don’t know about the strength of Amherst’s language programs, but I wouldn’t worry if I were you. You will find an abundance of courses in the 5 college consortium. I’m thinking about doing Russian, and I expect to be traveling to an outside college or two to get that done.</p>
<p>I was browsing around the site, and it seems like the Amherst Russian department is really strong. They had a big donation back in the '30s, and consequently they have a nationally renowned Russian cultural center.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/russian[/url]”>Russian | Departments & Majors | Amherst College;
<p>The French and Russian departments are definitely the strongest. Spanish is terrible, if you’re looking to learn the language from the beginning. Upper level language classes in the Spanish department tend to be okay (mostly because of Ilan Stavans), but I’ve heard mixed opinions on those too. The French professors are much better than the Spanish professors in general.
That said, you can take languages through the 5 College programs, which tend to be pretty good. There’s also small group/one-on-one language mentoring through UMass.</p>
<p>Mercedes, as far as taking languages through the 5 College program, do most students find it inconvenient to take classes elsewhere, taking travel time into consideration? Also, do Amherst students usually take advantage of the 5 College system early on into their 4 years, or does it tend to be the upperclassmen?</p>
<p>It is an inconvenience, but if you really want to learn the language, you are going to make the commitment.</p>
<p>As an Amherst student, you would have absolute freedom to choose your classes as you please. But, if you were to insist on generalizing, we could say that first years tend to be less adventurous either because they want to get their bearings, or because they want to take the same classes as their fellow first years.</p>
<p>You can do what you want, really.</p>
<p>Has anyone heard anything about the arabic program? I know it’s taught by a five college lecturer, but have no idea about the quality. Thanks</p>
<p>Sorry q11w1e1r1t1, I don’t know anything about the Arabic program
I saw an intro to Arabic course for this fall, but it doesn’t seem like there are a whole lot of courses for Arabic</p>
<p>On a similar note, what do you guys think of this? I’m of course really interested in languages, and I’m excited that Amherst has a couple very strong language programs, but I kind of had a realization about languages. I don’t know if it’s the most productive use of time or money to major in a language in college. In other words, you could just go live in a country for a couple months and learn the language that way. It would be much cheaper, too. Think about it. The tuition at Amherst is $35,000 a year. Figure that you take four courses per semester, and that one of those courses is your language. That’s about $9,000 a year worth of languages. Almost $40,000 over four years to learn a language. You could travel the world a couple times over with that amount of money, and learn a few more languages in the meantime! </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>Learning how to speak, read, and write a language is a means, not an end.</p>
<p>The purpose of such language programs is to ensure that their beneficiaries are able to express themselves comfortably and confidently about literary, historical, cultural, sociopolitical, and philosophical issues.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>At any rate, it doesn’t make sense to talk generally about productive uses of time and money, because each person has his own priorities; it all depends on what you the individual are looking to get out of your education, what you the individual are looking to do with your education.</p>
<p>True, everyone has his or her own priorities, but I think we can all agree that certain priorities are wastes of time. If you think a good priority to have at an expensive school like Amherst is to drink all the time, for example, I’ll let you have your opinion. Objectively, though, it’s not a good use of time, because you could do that for much less money somewhere else. When talking about priorities in general, yes, it does depend on the person. But doing something at Amherst that you could do somewhere else for much less money is just a poor use of time, whether it be drinking or learning a language. There are certain aspects of learning a language at Amherst that you might not be able to get anywhere else. But for people like me who are mainly seeking to be able to converse with Russians in their native language and not so much discuss the underlying themes of Tolstoy’s “Anna Karenina” with some American student, it seems to make much more sense to spend a few months in Russia during the summer (which I can do at any point in my life) than to spend most of my valuable class time at Amherst learning the same thing at a slower rate. Four years at Amherst are too valuable for that, don’t you think?</p>
<p>Once again, you are launching an argument based on a mistaken premise.</p>
<p>Drinking is a means, not an end.</p>
<p>One does not spend a substantial amount of time simply “drinking” (i.e., partying). Rather, through “drinking,” one forges strong bonds with friends and acquaintances on whom one can depend in the future for invaluable support–whether you want to learn more about an industry that’s captured your interest, whether you want to get your foot in the door to a selective/niche market, whether you’ve got your eyes set on that elusive/exclusive promotion, whether you’re looking to change careers, whether you need someone to finance a great idea you’ve got, etc., etc.</p>
<p>More generally speaking, through “drinking,” one acquires those invaluable social skills that one simply doesn’t get from the classroom, the library, or one’s dorm room; you need to learn how to talk the talk and walk the walk to survive in the real world. It doesn’t matter how good of a student you may be; if you lack the character and the personality to inspire trust and confidence in others, you will not be a successful leader. I mean that “drinking” can contribute positively to character-building and personality-shaping, and an integral character and a likable personality are invaluable assets, regardless of what one chooses to do with one’s life.</p>
<p>You can’t put a price tag on everything, but I’ve tried to do just that for you. Pursuits like language-learning and party-going yield abstract and intangible benefits that you need to appreciate. Again, depending on the individual, these can be low-risk long-term investments that yield high returns, to use terminology that’s better suited to the mentality you appear to harbor.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>I should have spoken more generally about the benefits of language-learning. Literary and cultural discourse is all fine and good. More important is the larger goal of expressing oneself with absolute clarity and perfect concision, and toward that is what the language programs at Amherst aim. The value of truly appreciating Anna Karenina is contestable. However, the value of speaking and writing well is incontestable.</p>
<p>At any rate, if you’re interested solely in learning how to conduct colloquial conversations, study abroad will serve you well. However, if you want to be able to conduct international transactions, to shape foreign policy, to do something “of consequence” with a foreign language, on the most basic level you need a complete and professional mastery of the foreign language, and the methodical and purposeful programs at Amherst will help you get just that and much more, as I’ve argued–such as, say, the ability to think and talk deeply about issues as fundamental as course selection and partying.</p>
<p>That’s an interesting response. I’m happy that your time at Amherst has prepared you to discuss the profounder points of alcohol consumption. I would be interested to know if you would seek out those same intangible ends that you claim drinking engenders if the social norm valued, say, cocaine in the place of alcohol? Perhaps that would also be a long-term investment that would yield you high returns. I bet you’d have a great future in diplomatic relations between drug cartels in Mexico City or Bogot</p>
<p>Traveling between the 5 Colleges does take some time, but if you are concerned about wasting a lot of time, you can always bring something to do with you on the bus. Commute time is about 45 minutes to Smith, 10 minutes to UMass, 25 minutes to Hampshire and about 30-40 minutes to Mt. Holyoke. In general, Amherst students are known to be the least adventurous of the 5 College students. Relatively few of us took classes outside Amherst, since we felt it would be a waste of time - we have very high quality faculty. But several people I know did so, especially if they were pursuing one of the 5 College certificates or trying to hook up with girls at Smith or Mt. Holyoke. :)</p>
<p>Taking a language at Amherst that is offered through a department like Spanish, French or German, is required for study abroad in a country that speaks one of those languages. Spain and France tend to be popular study abroad destinations, along with the UK. In most departments you should have taken up to the intermediate/advanced stage to be allowed to study abroad. Otherwise, retter, I can understand your reluctance to take a language since they are not overall the strongest departments on campus. One way to neatly avoid that problem would be to take a half credit course at UMass so you can take 4.5 classes. I agree with you that it isn’t worth your time to take classes at Amherst in a subject you can learn elsewhere. That said, it can be very useful to major in a language if you:</p>
<p>A) plan to go into social work - Spanish at Amherst plus community service in Holyoke or Springfield
B) plan to work abroad
C) want to pursue an advanced degree in literature in a foreign language or linguistics. For this, Latin is supposed to be pretty decent at Amherst.</p>
<p>It is also useful to take Arabic or Chinese at Amherst if you want to work for the government or for multinationals in the future. I know consulting companies like Bain, which always comes to recruit at Amherst, value the language skills.</p>
<p>As far as I know, there are only two Arabic courses taught at Amherst and the rest must be taken in the 5 Colleges. I think it is supposed to be pretty good, although not great.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info, mercedes. How is the grading in general? I’ve heard a 4.0 is legendary.</p>
<p>Are you flamebaiting me? Congratulations–it’s working.</p>
<p>You are misrepresenting my position. I had been implying that one should not make quick, condescending, black-and-white generalizations about matters outside one’s knowledge and experience. Especially if one does not make an effort to understand why others act they way that they do, the reasoning and the rationale of others.</p>
<p>Contrary to your insinuations, I do not encourage either the abuse of alcohol or the disregard of common sense.</p>
<p>Note that, before I went on and on, I chose to talk generally about “partying” (i.e., being extroverted, outgoing, social) instead of “drinking,” the simplification you had made. I make this distinction completely clear by enclosing “drinking” in ironic quotation marks throughout my argument. Therefore, you are mocking me for taking a position that I did not in fact take. Which confuses me.</p>
<p>(But, since you insist on confusing the two, at this moment, I will humor you and relieve everyone else who may be worried that she may find herself compelled to drink in order to make lots and lots of friends and acquaintances. One can go to a bar with friends, and order a water with lime without fearing that one’s friends will make fun of one or look down on one. On the other hand, if one adopts a high-and-mighty, “burn in hell, sinner,” stance, one cannot look forward to a friendly response. One can go to TAP (The Amherst Party) and dance, dance, dance with many people; one does not have to drink a drop. Although many of those who abstain from alcohol are intolerant of those who consume alcohol, few of those who consume alcohol are intolerant of those who abstain from alcohol.)</p>
<p>All this bougie language about “productivity” reminds me of those older relatives of mine, architects and engineers, who do not cease to remind me that the humanities and the social sciences are a “waste of time.” I confess that I myself believe that business majors are “wasting their time,” but even I cannot help admitting that business majors learn invaluable skills such as public speaking, teamwork, time management skills, etc. Therefore, why can’t they make at least a half-assed effort to appreciate why studying the humanities can be an invaluable experience? Shocking.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the isolated acts of alcohol consumption and language learning, without context, are unwise and impractical uses of time. If you continue to confuse drinking and “drinking,” I’ll continue to humor you too, and argue that drinking (no quotes) at Amherst is more valuable than drinking elsewhere, because the connections to be made at Amherst are more valuable than those made elsewhere. If one concedes this point, then one may agree that it is worth the expense to drink at Amherst, for the invaluable benefits to be reaped from such an investment!</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>But, your confusing of means and ends will continue to sink you, and I want to save you. The matter we are contending is this statement that you had made earlier in this thread: “I don’t know if it’s the most productive use of time or money to major in a language in college.” Major. However, as I have already explained, again and again, one does not major in a language at Amherst to become a fluent speaker of that language, believe it or not. From the mouths of the department heads themselves:</p>
<p>“Asian Languages and Civilizations is an interdisciplinary exploration of the histories and cultures of the peoples of Asia. Through a systematic study of the languages, societies, and cultures of the major civilizations… The purpose is… a general inquiry into the problem of cultural difference and its social and political implications, both within Asia and between Asia and the West.”</p>
<p>“The [Classics] major program is designed to afford access to the achievements of Greek and Roman antiquity through mastery of the ancient languages.”</p>
<p>“The objective of the French major is to learn about French culture directly through its language and principally by way of its literature.”</p>
<p>“The German Studies Major is broadly humanistic and cross-cultural. It develops language and cultural literacy skills and provides a critical understanding of the literary and cultural traditions of the German-speaking countries.”</p>
<p>“[The] Russian Department [is] a strongly interdisciplinary department and encourage[s] students to acquire sophistication in reading Russia’s cultural traditions through the disciplines of literature, film, cultural studies, history, and politics.”</p>
<p>“The objective of the Spanish major is to learn about Hispanic cultures directly through the Spanish language and principally by way of their literature and other artistic expressions.”</p>
<p>One majors in one of the languages to achieve the aforementioned objectives. Fluency is simply the means through which one does so. Your argument that language majors are a waste of time is based on a false premise, that language majors have fluency as their purpose. As you can see, that is clearly not the case. You can argue that language majors are a waste of time with the premise that learning about cultures is a waste of time. However, you cannot argue that language majors are a waste of time with the premise that language-learning is a waste of time.</p>
<p>Very nice post kwu! :)</p>
<p>Despite the fact that I commenced my argument with the term “major,” I did try to elucidate my intention in the following sentences:</p>
<p>“There are certain aspects of learning a language at Amherst that you might not be able to get anywhere else. But for people like me who are mainly seeking to be able to converse with Russians in their native language and not so much discuss the underlying themes of Tolstoy’s “Anna Karenina” with some American student, it seems to make much more sense to spend a few months in Russia during the summer (which I can do at any point in my life) than to spend most of my valuable class time at Amherst learning the same thing at a slower rate.”</p>
<p>In other words, for someone seeking to fully understand a language by studying that language in college, he or she would most likely end up with a “major” in the technical term. Perhaps at certain institutions, the majority of a major would be comprised of courses about culture. At many institutions, though, you could get a B.A. in a certain language by taking solely language-based courses rather than ones based on culture. Of course, a by-product of studying language-based courses in college is learning about literature and, inevitably, culture. But for the Amherst student who seeks to speak a country’s language as well as a native of that country, concentrating (whether or not that entails a B.A.) in a language in college is not a good use of time–certainly by no means a “waste” of time, since you are still learning something useful–but not the way one at Amherst should go about spending his or her time.</p>
<p>Retter, may I ask why you are being so argumentative with a knowledgable current Amherst student that knows the FL departments well?</p>
<p>@GA2012MOM: If you’ve been following the thread, you should know that the argument is one of principle; its validity is not restricted to Amherst. Of course, we are talking about the topic in an Amherst context, but the details of the language departments at Amherst have no bearing on the type of situation I described in my previous post. It seems you enjoy cheerleading kwu. His posts are very intelligent and entertaining. But don’t be an opponent of reason by disregarding the valid points I have made on account of your infatuation with my opponent in this battle of wits :D</p>
<p>To an extent, Retter, I see where you’re coming from–at least on the issue of learning languages in college. As kwu said, fluency in a foreign language (at least in the context of a liberal arts education) serves as a means for deeper analysis of that language’s corresponding culture, which in turn serves as a way to foster growth as a critical thinker. If one arrives at Amherst with a greater fluency in the “language” of, say, Art History than in any foreign language, the wisest path to take, would probably be to study Art History, rather than French or Classics. It’s a practical reality that if our hypothetical student were to use “use” 8 or 16 courses achieving fluency in a language, there would be less time to explore the deeper questions posed by that language (again, I use “language” is the loosest sense possible). </p>
<p>But when I look at your broader argument, I get the sense that you’re missing the very point of Amherst College. You argue that time spent learning languages or drinking at Amherst would be time wasted, because neither of those activities are unique to Amherst. But then, what subject areas are unique to Amherst? English isn’t. Biology isn’t. Econ isn’t. On the surface level of majors available, sports teams available, extracurricular activities available, and common social pursuits available, every college in America is effectively identical.</p>
<p>If you’re only interested in the literal content of Russian, the most efficient way to learn it is probably to go buy a copy of Rosetta Stone for your PC. Similarly, if you’re only after the “content” of drinking–drunkenness, in this case–you might as well just go buy a 40 of Olde English and drink it alone. What sets Amherst apart (and what you’re neglecting to consider) is its community of brilliant people. While Stanley Rabinowitz isn’t going to teach you a different Cyrillic alphabet than you’d learn from a computer program or inexperienced state school T.A., he is going to engage you with questions about the structure of the Russian language that will stretch your brain in ways that the T.A. could not. And while there are booze and “drinking” pals to be found on every college campus, the type of lessons to be learned from “drinking” (that is, socializing) with in community as diverse, intelligent, and well-connected as Amherst’s, are much harder to come by.</p>