<p>UCLA's acceptance rate to med school is under 50%. Berkeley is a little better at around 60%. Every other school on your "higher end" list has acceptance rates of 75%+.</p>
<p>1.) The LSDAS compiles an index to measure grade inflation/deflation for pre-law students. By those standards, Duke is the third most grade inflated school among US News' top 10, behind Stanford and Columbia.</p>
<p>2.) Suggesting that you pick a college for inflated grades is a silly thing to do anyway.</p>
<p>3.) Duke certainly gets students into medical school with much lower-than-normal GPAs, a sign that medical schools are willing to give us a little extra bump during the process. (The national average GPA for a student entering medical school is approximately 3.6.)</p>
<p>4.) For those of you who care about admissions percentage -- and I am not one of them -- Duke routinely doubles the national average despite having no screening process in place.</p>
<p>5.) In fact, I have never once heard an advisor even go so far as to advise a student not to apply to medical school. The worst thing they'll ever tell you is to take a year off before applying to gain relevant experience.</p>
<p>Contrast with schools that have screening processes or pre-med weeding.</p>
<p>6.) An explanation behind Duke's highly successful track record as a preprofessional school -- both for law and medicine -- is given here.</p>
<p>7.) If you're going to explain why schools in CA can have very qualified student bodies and atrocious admissions percentages even AFTER benefitting from highly self-selected reporting and are yet still "unbelievably good", feel free to explain away.</p>
<p>8.) UCB reports on only about 20% of their premedical student body. So you know that 12% of their premeds get in someplace, 8% get in noplace, and 80% don't tell UCB. I'm guessing quite confidently that the actual number is much lower than 60%, since it seems to me that UCB is more likely to hear from the kids who got in someplace.</p>
<p>9.) Being Asian, by the way, does not make one a good premedical student. In fact, I've noticed that my Asian friends have dramatically less success in the application process than comparable-statistic friends of other races. Whether this is due to differences in extracurriculars, interviews, or the application process itself is unknown to me.</p>
<p>Selection of Duke Premed Profiles from mdapplicants.com (These are all the profiles of people from Duke who chose to post on the site, all profiles made it into at least one med school). Going through the profiles, a lack of the presence of top med schools among the profiles is clear and apparent. Out of the ones (about 15) I looked through, I saw 1 Harvard, 1 JHU, and 2 Duke. I welcome you to create an actual tally yourself and look through the site.:</p>
<p>03343 Duke, 35 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
01802 Duke Univeristy, 38 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2004
05129 Duke University, 40 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2006
00660 Duke University, 34 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2003
00715 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.56 GPA, applied 2003
07394 Duke University, 35 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2003
05559 Duke University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
00979 Duke University, 37 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2004
04575 Duke University, 30 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2006
01396 Duke University, 42 MCAT, 3.34 GPA, applied 2004
01872 Duke University, 32 MCAT, 3.30 GPA, applied 2004
03892 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.20 GPA, applied 2004
00348 Duke University, 36 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2003
00377 Duke University, 36 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2003
01907 Duke University, 35 MCAT, 3.32 GPA, applied 2004
04981 Duke University, 30 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
03434 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2005
00586 Duke University, 31 MCAT, 3.54 GPA, applied 2003
00722 Duke University, 37 MCAT, 3.72 GPA, applied 2003
00823 Duke University, 35 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2003
00852 Duke University, 38 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2003
01249 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.51 GPA, applied 2004
00856 Duke University, 31 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2003
00078 Duke University, 36 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2002
03514 Duke University, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
00098 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2002
00217 Duke University, 39 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2003
01671 Duke University, 38 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2004
00444 Duke University, 36 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2003
00461 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2003
00596 Duke University, 34 MCAT, 3.47 GPA, applied 2003
00710 Duke University, 34 MCAT, 3.54 GPA, applied 2003
01951 Duke University, 35 MCAT, 3.85 GPA, applied 2004
02804 Duke University, 37 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2004</p>
<p>*Please take special note of profile 01396 who scored a 42 MCAT but had a dismal 3.34 GPA. Out of the 12 med schools that this individual applied to, she was accepted to ONE. This being the University of Miami. A bitter shame and a pure waste of talent, laid to rest by the very school she confided in for four entire years of her life. </p>
<p>UCB (all of the following made it into at least one med school):</p>
<p>02765 UC Berkeley, 35 MCAT, 3.07 GPA, applied 2005
04737 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.41 GPA, applied 2006
05169 UC Berkeley, 29 MCAT, 3.30 GPA, applied 2006
00309 UC BERKELEY, 38 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2002
03620 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2006
05286 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
02085 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2004
00598 UC Berkeley, 38 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2002
02886 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2005
00798 UC Berkeley, 32 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2003
02511 UC Berkeley, 35 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2005
01874 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2002
01060 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.33 GPA, applied 2001
03312 UC Berkeley, 39 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2005
01745 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2004
00030 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.86 GPA, applied 2003
01429 UC Berkeley, 39 MCAT, 3.64 GPA, applied 2004
01442 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
00489 UC Berkeley, 38 MCAT, 3.85 GPA, applied 2003
01968 UC Berkeley, 35 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2003
02030 UC Berkeley, 35 MCAT, 3.62 GPA, applied 2004
01243 UC Berkeley, 30 MCAT, 3.54 GPA, applied 2004
00712 UC Berkeley, 35 MCAT, 3.47 GPA, applied 2003
03313 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.23 GPA, applied 2005
02438 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2005
00950 UC Berkeley, 30 MCAT, 3.66 GPA, applied 2004
01038 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2004
01336 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2004
00213 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2003
01630 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2004
02444 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2006
04297 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
04778 UC Berkeley, 29 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2006
03883 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2004
00491 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2003
02005 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2005
05943 UC Berkeley, 30 MCAT, 3.10 GPA, applied 2006
00638 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.55 GPA, applied 2003
00699 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2003
02523 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.10 GPA, applied 2005
02718 UC Berkeley, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
01121 UC Berkeley, 32 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2004
03087 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2005
01253 UC Berkeley, 42 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2004
01738 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 2.49 GPA, applied 2000
01346 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2004
01462 UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2004
01562 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2004
03887 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2006
01818 UC Berkeley, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2002
01186 UC Berkeley, 32 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2004
00546 UC Berkeley, 39 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2003
00682 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2001
02258 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 2.90 GPA, applied 2005
00785 UC Berkeley, 32 MCAT, 2.86 GPA, applied 2003
02411 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2005
00859 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 3.39 GPA, applied 2003
02308 UC Berkeley, 33 MCAT, 3.87 GPA, applied 2005
01111 UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.00 GPA, applied 2004
05267 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.87 GPA, applied 2006
01680 UC Berkeley, 34 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2004
03760 UC Berkeley, 31 MCAT, 3.59 GPA, applied 2005</p>
<p>UCLA (same as UCB):</p>
<p>01746 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2004
00144 UCLA, 36 MCAT, 3.49 GPA, applied 2002
04091 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2006
04099 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.47 GPA, applied 2006
00723 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2002
04378 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2006
00636 UCLA, 28 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2003
01761 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
01940 UCLA, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2004
02073 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2004
05428 ucla, 31 MCAT, 3.38 GPA, applied 2006
00607 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2003
00629 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.49 GPA, applied 2003
01882 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.87 GPA, applied 2005
00842 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.39 GPA, applied 2003
01864 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
02913 UCLA, 36 MCAT, 3.65 GPA, applied 2005
01234 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2004
03300 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2005
01316 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2004
03539 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2005
00379 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2003
00076 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2002
00104 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2003
00125 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2003
03844 UCLA, 28 MCAT, 3.37 GPA, applied 2004
00216 UCLA, 26 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2003
00220 UCLA, 39 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2003
01187 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2004
00274 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.49 GPA, applied 2003
01706 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2004
01712 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
04627 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2002
05150 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.78 GPA, applied 2006
00643 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.19 GPA, applied 2003
05583 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.36 GPA, applied 2006
00800 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2003
00916 UCLA, 25 MCAT, 3.30 GPA, applied 2003
03772 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
03270 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2005
03398 UCLA, 40 MCAT, 3.61 GPA, applied 2005
01122 UCLA, 39 MCAT, 3.56 GPA, applied 2004
00242 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 1995
00291 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.72 GPA, applied 2002
00406 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.56 GPA, applied 2003
00429 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.72 GPA, applied 2003
00579 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2003
00600 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2003
06345 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.67 GPA, applied 2006
02435 UCLA, 27 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2005
02349 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 2.90 GPA, applied 2004
02459 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2005
01154 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2004
03304 ucla, 29 MCAT, 2.70 GPA, applied 2005
03771 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.72 GPA, applied 2005
00890 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.59 GPA, applied 2003
00151 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.20 GPA, applied 2003
01508 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2004
03529 UCLA, 40 MCAT, 3.78 GPA, applied 2006
01598 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2004
01635 ucla, 30 MCAT, 3.36 GPA, applied 2003
00262 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.74 GPA, applied 2003
01793 UCLA, 27 MCAT, 3.68 GPA, applied 2001
00383 UCLA, 36 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2001
01875 UCLA, 35 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2004
04984 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.72 GPA, applied 2006
02672 UCLA, 27 MCAT, 3.56 GPA, applied 2001
00515 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2003
02028 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.76 GPA, applied 2004
05316 UCLA, 33 MCAT, 3.37 GPA, applied 2006
00568 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.20 GPA, applied 2003
00349 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.68 GPA, applied 2003
03140 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.89 GPA, applied 2005
00628 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2003
04882 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.68 GPA, applied 2006
00730 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2003
02546 UCLA, 31 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2005
01098 ucla, 33 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
03213 UCLA, 32 MCAT, 3.49 GPA, applied 2005
03344 UCLA, 34 MCAT, 3.52 GPA, applied 2005
03557 UCLA, 30 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2005
01371 UCLA, 37 MCAT, 3.62 GPA, applied 2004</p>
<p>1) UCs are not bad schools by any stretch of any befuddled imagination. </p>
<p>2) I'm not saying the UCs are better than Duke either, I'm only mentioning them in the same thread because I have to prove two points. </p>
<p>3) I love how you chose to use the pre-law statistic to prove grade inflation at Duke. Is there any evidence at all to suggest a correlation between premed and prelaw? Or maybe what you're trying to say is that lawyers now need to know organic chemistry so that they can interpret the witness's internal chemical workings and thereby win their case, declaring the witness unfit for the court. Please, the next time you're going to throw out some bull***** statistic, at least get it right. </p>
<p>4) Looking through the Duke profiles, it can be seen that MCAT scores are relatively high. This is attributed to the fact that Duke is (obviously) an extremely 'good' institution for premedical studies (something I have never denied). However, there is a severely broad-ranged spectrum of GPAs, ranging from the low 3.2s to the upper 3.9s. Assuming that the quality of students attending Duke in the first place is equivalent to the quality of those attending some of the nation's top schools, why should inflated GPAs of students who are obviously quite capable of achievement fall so low? If in fact, they are 'inflated', as you seem to claim...</p>
<p>5) If it needs to be reiterated, many of these extremely capable students, as can be ascertained upon further inspection of their profiles on the site itself, suffered because of the low GPAs and did not even make the secondaries at some of their top choice schools. Now, if any of you who may be reading this, are simply interested in making it to med school, then you should stop reading now and understand that there is a certain boundary past which there are top medical schools and before which there is everything else. By all means, Duke can GET you into med school, just not always the one YOU want.</p>
<p>6) Since you seem to be some die-hard fan of Duke (and I don't blame you since you probably made the mistake of going there and now realize it's working against your benefit, GPA-wise and monetarily), I expect/look forward to some sort of convoluted reply. By the way, maybe next time you can try using some sort of substantial evidence to back your nonsense, rather than posting links redirecting us to this site or (holy **** what were you thinking) to Duke's site.</p>
<p>7) Please take special note of Duke profile 01396 who scored a 42 MCAT but had a dismal 3.34 GPA. Out of the 12 med schools that this individual applied to, she was accepted to ONE (this being the University of Miami, a school worth far less than 42 MCAT student). And this would not have happened had it not been for the school that this person chose to attend. A bitter shame and a pure waste of talent; in a sense, she was betrayed by the very school she chose to devote four entire years of her life to. This is one of many similar cases observed for the university.</p>
<p>8) BDM, do yourself a favor and don't reply. I'm done anyway and if you want to work up a sweat weaseling your way out of solid logic, be my guest. I don't have the time to defend my opinions and am only doing so b/c your obstinacy irritates me to no end. "Good night and good luck" (cause' you're going to need it).</p>
<p>Did BDM send you a nasty PM or something? I'm not sure what he said that warranted such ire.</p>
<p>Regardless, pulling up a bunch of self-selected profiles on mdapplicants isn't going to prove anything. First of all, Duke is much smaller than the UC's. Speaking in terms of absolute numbers is meaningless. Of course Duke isn't going to send as many to top med schools as a Berkeley or UCLA. Actually, wait a minute, let's examine the stats shall we?</p>
<p>Absolutely pathetic numbers. Duke might beat out Berkeley even on absolute numbers.</p>
<p>Percentages:</p>
<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/national.stm%5B/url%5D">http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/national.stm</a>
<a href="http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/UCLAFourYrMedSchoolAdmissionsHistory.asp%5B/url%5D">http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/UCLAFourYrMedSchoolAdmissionsHistory.asp</a></p>
<p>49-62% compared with Duke's 85%. As with any self-selecting, the numbers tend to be biased upwards. The actual numbers from Berkeley are probably lower. Your best bet is to argue that UC students apply to ultra-competitive UC med schools and therefore have a lower acceptance rate.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Did BDM send you a nasty PM or something?
[/quote]
Nope. No PMs sent, nasty or otherwise.</p>
<hr>
<p>And don't forget that Duke, as a school with an advisory committee*, will not be able to self-select their applications. So 85% is if anything a pessimistic estimate.</p>
<p>(*Advisory committees are notified of all applicants and all schools to which those applicants send secondaries. They are NOT necessarily notified of any admissions. Berkeley has no such committee.)</p>
<hr>
<p>I just did the math. For top-ten admissions, we not only beat them absolutely, we more than triple them absolutely (65 in 5 years vs. 44 in 2005, or 13:44). Remove state residency from the equation -- i.e. remove UCSF -- and Duke quintuples UCB per year (8:42). Even removing Duke Med from the equation still results in tripling (8:25).</p>
<p>Source: HPAC</p>
<p>Am I missing something somewhere; why don't we zoom out to the big picture? </p>
<p>When nationally about half of all those are who apply to med school are rejected from all schools to which they apply, and given the overestimation of self-reporting by the uc schools, UCLA and UCB may actually be at or BELOW the national rate. How on earth can it be rationalized that these are good places to be premed when schools like Duke, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, JHU, etc. churn out rates well in excess of 80% or 90% in getting students of similar ability (in UCB's case) into med school (and JHU is the only one of these schools with an applicant screen)?</p>
<p>Furthermore, the average GPA for an admitted applicant is something like a 3.64, and many of the aforementioned schools put up gaudy acceptance rates from applicant pools with average GPAs well below this number. I believe BDM stated at one point that Duke students accepted to med school had an average GPA of about 3.5, indicating at least partially that med school adcoms smile on Duke students, despite the law school grade-inflation index (a list I think foolish to discount as being simply applicable to pre-law). Just another example from my own experience. Penn has an acceptance rate for first-time applicants of about 85% depending on who you ask, and about 300 students per year apply (this number comes from my premed advisor; a pretty large raw figure). The average GPA of the applicant pool is not released publicly but is availible to Penn students on a year-by-year basis and is generally in the high 3.3s to low 3.4s range. These sorts of numbers for getting people into med school with "low" GPAs would be unheard of for the UC schools, almost to the point of it being laughable that they would be considered comprably 'good' for premeds.</p>
<p>Oh, and just and FYI to prospective MD: BDM is already in med school after having gone to Duke. He tends to be very tight-lipped about where he goes to school and I've never asked him, but I've always gotten the impression that it's reasonably high up the 'ol USNEWS pecking order. This is in response to your comment in your diatribe that may have been missed by some people about the girl who was 'wasted' on Miami's med school. You sound like a first semester freshman, understand the process before you start bashing the people who are actually in med school for 'failing' to get into a 'good' med school, an absurdist notion if there ever was one.</p>
<p>"You sound like a first semester freshman"</p>
<p>You give him too much credit. He's a HS senior from NJ who apparently feels he knows quite a bit more about the UC's than BDM who is actually from the Bay Area.</p>
<p>so he is...</p>
<p>my bad, I assumed that such a virulent and jaded argument could only come from someone who actually had ties to the schools in question.</p>
<p>Gotta love the "view other posts" function on CC.</p>