Looking for advice regarding son's strange decisions

Parents Forum
41

Well…a high school classmate of my kid’s did just this. This was at a NYC public magnet. It had been about 6 years since a grad of the high school didn’t go directly to a 4 year college and then it was because that person was an actor with a role on a TV series. So when he went off to the marines as an enlisted man…his classmates were stunned.

I just checked his profile on-line. It seems he spent most of his time in the marines as a K-9 handler! He survived his service–and lets face it these days that’s not guaranteed. He came back and went to Columbia followed by Columbia Law School. I think he managed to pay for some of that with the GI Bill and the Yellow Ribbon program.http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/yellow_ribbon.asp He works as a corporate attorney at a NYC law firm now. He got married to a young woman who had attended the same high school and was a “high profile” person on national TV for a while. They both definitely don’t fit the mold of graduates from their high school!

42

It would be a disservice to himself and to his country when a person of his caliber is doing job that other people can do equally well. What he and his fellow countrymen need is for him to apply his gift where it is of optimum use.

We all value the tremendous service that daycare teachers provide but if some of them are capable to invent life saving drugs in a research laboratory to save lives of millions of children then it is a waste to spend their life in an unskilled job that others can do equally well.

As much as we need marines, we also need people creating weapons, gear, planes and tactical plans to protect these marines and bring them back home to their families, not to local cemeteries. Everybody has a strength and using it smartly is what makes one patriotic, not throwing it away and doing what seems appealing at a given day.

43

Whether or not your son ultimately opts for a military career I do hope you can convince him to get that degree. Just like any other job he would apply for he’ll be way ahead if he gets an education.

And if he is set on the military, is it possible his education would be paid for with enlistment?

A very good friend went to the Citadel and MIT for engineering (all paid for) before starting his army career. He used to joke “Where else can I learn to build a bridge and then how to blow it up?” He is truly brilliant and moved up the ranks quickly and recently retired at the tippy top–but he needed the education to use his talents
. He also joked when he was in the Middle East "How else can you work in the desert in the only air conditioned tent?(he was in charge of training computer personnel)

A friend’s daughter is in a top medical school presently with her education paid for by the Air Force --she will be a Captain ( I believe) when she graduates.

Another friend who I worked with went to pharmacy school paid for by the Marines.

All of my examples have something in common–a profession which translates to life outside the military.

Which is something your son should definitely consider.
A relative who enlisted worked on planes but after retirement ended up driving a truck for a living (decent pay but not his first choice). He had gotten intensive training (which he enjoyed) but not one that translated easily to life outside the military. After retirement from the military ( fairly young age usually) he didn’t have a fall back option.with no college degree.

The services require a wide array of professions. I think it would be better to pick one rather than have it chosen for you.

44

“No, he wants to join the Marines. “College will still be there when I get discharged”.”

So what does your son eventually want to do? Depending on what that is you may be able to show him that by having the degree first he will be able to use that job skill in the Marines.

45

I have a good friend from high school who’s a career Marine officer (went to Annapolis). Brilliant guy, and believes the Marines is one of the best options for anyone who has the drive. (And he’s fervent and impassioned on that—last time I talked to him about it, he nearly sold me on believing that I should have gone that route, myself, and trust me, that’s not where I would ever hope to be.)

He also believes that someone drawn to the Marines who has the intelligence for it should be an officer. My friend will readily admit that there is, shall we say, a wide range of intellectual abilities among the Marines enlisted ranks—the stereotype of the dumb Marine is only a stereotype, but there are a good number that fit it.

But in order to lead such a disparate group, you need officers with top-notch intellectual abilities—and in my (limited, but not hugely limited) experience, the Marine officer ranks are largely populated by such absolutely brilliant people.

(Also, the quality of life for a junior grade officer is way better than quality of life for someone in the junior grade enlisted ranks. I mean, really, really way better.)

So: If the OP’s son really wants to use his talents in the Marines in ways that they’re most needed, he should look into becoming an officer in the Marines—and to do that, as has already been pointed out, he will have to have a four-year degree.

And obtaining a four-year degree while serving in the Marines enlisted ranks will be nearly impossible, and if he serves one tour as a Marine and then goes to college to earn a degree, the window for becoming an officer in the Marines will be rapidly approaching its close (since the age limit is 28).

Also: Lots of useful information at the [Marine Corps FAQ](Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Marines) page and the [Marine Corps Officer Candidates School](Become a Marine Corps Officer | Marines) page.

(Note particularly the “paths to become an officer” link near the bottom of the page. The enlisted-to-officer path is long, and there are weed-out moments at every point along the way.)

46

Give him a copy of “One Bullet Away,” by Nathaniel Fick, a marine officer and graduate of Dartmouth. Also Generation Kill, which followed Fick’s unit in Iraq. Show him that one can be both a Marine and an Ivy grad.

While you’re at it, Redeployment is a superb book of short stories by Phil Klay, another Dartmouth grad veteran. Harrowing, real.

If he’s going to do it, he should realize what he’s getting in to. There’s a lot of posturing out there.

We need intelligent, well-educated people in the military. I’d do everything I could to get him to keep his options open by reserving his place where he’s been accepted, going to college first and doing ROTC if he can get in.

A friend of mine’s son insisted on going to Norfolk and joining the corps of cadets. His college education was combined with periods of Marine training, including boot camp, and deployment. When his first period of service ended, he was not allowed to re-up. Nor were many others. They are cutting the size of the corps, and if you really want to do it, it helps to have education and higher-level skills they can use.

Yes, college will always be there. Unless he returns with a brain injury, like so many. Then what? this isn’t anything to take lightly, and I have to say I have my doubts that an 18 yr old who has suddenly discovered this desire is not looking at it from an excessively romantic viewpoint.

47

My D’s HS bf, who was a very bright young man, said something similar while in HS. We noticed he would say he wanted to enlist after he graduated from HS at times when he was feeling stressed out and unsure of himself. What may have appealed to him was the fact that he wouldn’t have to make decisions - the military would be making those decisions for him.

His mom convinced him to consider ROTC in college instead of enlisting (he initially wanted to study engineering) by arguing that he’d be more useful to the military as an engineer. I don’t remember if he did ROTC in college or not. He’s since graduated from college (not an engineer, not in the military) and is married and has a good job.

Graduating from HS can be a very scary time - there’s lots of uncertainty. This may or may not have any relevance to your S, but thought I’d share it for what it’s worth.

48

All of them served as military officers after FSA or college.

49

Thank you all SO MUCH for the replies! You have given me so much to think about. I have forwarded this thread to my son (with apologies for the phrasing of my first post… he knows my opinions).
We are going to have a long talk tonight. He’s agreed to look into the ROTC programs available in the schools he’s been accepted to (they all seem to have that option, mostly through partner schools).

Someone asked whether he has been thinking about this for a while - he did, apparently, since he’s done a lot of research, but we didn’t know he was considering it. I hope I’ll get more out of him tonight than what we got so far (“this what I’m going to do and that’s that”).

And again, I did NOT mean to offend anyone. We live in a town where no high school graduate joins the military. Those who don’t go to college straight away do gap years. We don’t know anyone in the military. As a mother, I don’t want my son to make a choice that might potential by the wrong one, that involves losing out on what he’s achieved, and which can’t be taken back if he finds out it’s not what he had in mind after all.

I will definitely keep you all updated. Thanks again!

50

I didn’t mean we are talking of being coddled. He may imagine that in order to prove to himself he’s tough he needs to enlist - he’s 17 and several young men I know were under the illusion that being an officer isn’t as 'tough’as being an enlisted man. There’s a lot of imagination and, frankly, fantasy that goes with the marines.

The fact he’s not interested in the service academies nor ROTC is concerning.

I agree meeting a Marines (or military) representative is imperative.

51

He can, but runs the same risks to his life if his Reserve or National Guard Unit is called up and deployed for in combat theaters.

Also, keep in mind that the frequency of callups for long deployments of National Guard units became much more commonplace during OIF/Afghanistan than during the Vietnam War era. .

52

Good news @light1012 - I look forward to hearing an update.

53

According to the government website U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, neither W. J. Clinton nor B.H. Obama served in the military. They state G.W. Bush as the last veteran president.

54

Love knowing you’re going to talk.

But to OP’s son–
The research is never fully complete until all the facts are in.
And while they aren’t “facts” and more anecdotes it still makes sense to listen.
I hope you take to heart that the people giving their advice on this thread have known people (of highest rank) in this exact position as you are now…
The advice to get an education first (maybe paid by the military) will make a huge difference in the future.
I have NEVER met a vet who regretted getting a good education. Regrets are from those who didn’t grab that opportunity.

55

Argh, my post #49 was written before @light1012 posted.
Glad you’re going to talk.
Glad to hear he’s considering ROTC too because it shows more commitment to service to consider all possible venues to serve.

56

Should have said most of the 8 of the last 10 presidents who did serve did so as military officers after FSA or college. My bad.

Nixon was an officer in the USNR after college. As someone with a Quaker background, he could have legitimately claimed exemption from military service on religious grounds, but chose not to.

Ford also served in the USNR after college.

Carter graduated from USNA and served as a submarine officer and joined nuke subs during the early days of Captain and later Admiral Rickover.

Reagan was commissioned in a US Army Reserve unit before WWII, but had such poor eyesight he wasn’t allowed to be deployed overseas in combat despite requests to do so. Served stateside in a film production unit.

George HW Bush was an officer in the USNR before completing college due to a pressing wartime need for the navy to rapidly expand its pool of qualified naval aviators during the war. This was a brief period when pressing wartime needs meant requirements for military aviators to be college graduates or even 2-3 years of college were waived. Ended up finishing college after completing his wartime service.

George W. Bush was an officer in the Texas National Guard after college.

57

Maybe negotiate with him. Try for west point?

58

Annapolis is the main FSA for Marine officers as well as Navy officers.

While it is possible to cross-commission into the Marines from other FSAs, that’s not guaranteed.

Especially considering each USNA class has a maximum percentage quota of how many USNA cadets can commission as Marines each year. It was ~16-17% when the older neighborhood boy and some same-aged HS classmates were going through college/FSAs during the '80s and '90s. Heard they raised it to 25%, but even then, selection is not automatic and competitive.

One downside to USNA is the possibility a Naval cadet who is an aspiring Marine may be shut out if his/her class standing and/or performance evaluations by Marines during summer tours falls short of Marine requirements.

59

Is your son concerned about student debt and the cost of college? My daughter who is in the top 10% of her class, has taken 7 AP courses, top scores on SAT and ACT, etc, etc…recently had the same conversation with me about joining the military. Her rationale was that she’s not 100% sure of her major, doesn’t want to graduate with a ton of debt, and thinks she needs to be part of something important that will also improve her as a person. I did my part to inform her of the risks, and that the GI Bill has not kept up with the insane rising costs of college. She was accepted at 4 of her 5 schools she applied to, won a scholarship, but is still keeping the military as an option. Not sure what the right decision is, but it will be hers to make, and I will do my best to support her in whatever her choice is.

60

What’s FSA?