<p>Our school just added two classes called IB Math Studies I and IB Math Studies II. So now we offer IB Math Studies, I & II, IB Math Methods I & II, IB HL Math I & II, as well as AP Calc (it is the only AP class offered at the school).</p>
<p>When I asked the head of the math department to explain the differences to me - hopefully using "old" terms - like "pre-calc" here is what she said:</p>
<p>"Math Studies I is a full year pre-calc class. Math Studies II is a full year pre-calc plus some statistics and intro to calc. Math Methods I is a full year of pre-calc, while Math Methods II is a full year calculus course. HL I is a full year calculus course that covers a bit more material, and HL II is beyond calculus."</p>
<p>Am I obtuse, or does this not make sense to you? Why all the overlap?
Admittedly I am totally not a math person, but I just don't get it. And the course sequence recommended for my son is wildly different from the dept. head and from his teacher. Can those of you experienced with IB give me an idea of a math sequence that *<em>goes no higher than calculus, *</em>is suitable for a freshman now in Honors Alg. II (but with perhaps a C second semester), and **a student who is not interested in math, computer science or engineering, but might be interested in health careers. Other grades are all top in all pre-IB classes although he will probably skip TOK so not be a diploma candidate (newspaper editor instead). Likely to be interested in selective, but not tippy-top colleges.
Any helpful explanation is appreciated.</p>
<p>Do you happen to have the official descriptions of these courses? Typically IB courses are labeled Standard Level and Higher Level. Math Studies and Math Methods are school-specific titles and it is hard for us to guess what these courses entail without a syllabus. </p>
<p>Have you asked the Department Head or the subject teacher what they think of each other's recommendations? Doing that might prompt them to explain why they think your S should take the sequence they recommended or why the other person might have recommended a different track, which might give you a better understanding of your options.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading - I've been trying to figure it out. So would the Math Studies be Math Studies II -->SL I -->SL II ?
His teacher is telling him the above won't prepare him for SL I, but the dept. head says it is a good plan. And I'm just confused.
My S has no intention of getting past MM II / AP Calc / HL I (apparently they are all very similar??)</p>
<p>School specific titles? Really? I thought all of the IB classes were regulated from the organization...
I'm losing confidence in the staff's understanding of the IB curriculum, clearly we'll need to discuss some more. What's on the syllabus and what book do they use? Back to basic questions.
Thanks for your feedback.</p>
<p>High schools often attach a description of their courses to the transcripts that are sent to colleges. In addition, if a kid takes a SL or HL course, colleges know where (s)he is at, regardless of what courses a kid has taken before.</p>
<p>From what you have said so far, I would guess that MS is a two-year enriched pre-calc sequence (pre-calc plus a little bit of statistics plus a little bit of calc) but I could well be wrong. It could be a less intense math track for kids who are not full IB candidates. Squeezing pre-calc, statistics and calc into one course (MS II w/o MS I as a prerequisite) would be insane!</p>
<p>Edit: Thanks for the clarification about MM. I have been wondering all along why your school does not offer SL :)</p>
<p>Math Studies SL is basically pre-calc with a few other topics added. It's the least rigorous version of IB Math.</p>
<p>Math Methods, also known as Math SL, includes a condensed version of calculus (does not cover all the AP Calc AB topics), but it does cover some elementary topics in linear algebra and statistics. Math Methods I is would probably be the standard precalculus course, while Math Methods II would cover the calculus and go into the IB curriculum.</p>
<p>Math HL covers all the of the Calculus AB topics (in the first year at your school), then in the second year introduces topics in linear algebra, statistics, algebra (more advanced than alg 1 or 2), and one of five options that include series and sequences (this option would cover the BC topics), discrete math, and further statistics. The "beyond calculus" topics, except maybe the options, aren't necessarily more advanced or difficult than calculus. I strongly advise against taking this course before taking precalculus especially before the junior year; the topics are fairly difficult without good preparation.</p>
<p>However, schools could teach topics their own way. Many schools combine AP and IB classes, which means some topics, especially ones that are only in the IB curriculum (like algebra and matricies) could get neglected.</p>
<p>I would recommend taking the Math Methods I, or a standard precalculus course, sophomore year. Afterwards, switch either into HL Math if very comfortable with the material or continue and finish Math Methods. Given that the only AP course is Calculus, I would advise HL Math because there doesn't seem to be other rigorous courses (unless the school offers an IB diploma).</p>
<p>Thanks None - I think the two of you posting understand. But here's the problem, my S is currently in H. Alg. II in gr. 9. The track he'd like to be on, takes Math Methods I in gr. 11 and Math Methods II in gr. 12. So what does he take next year? After a struggle with H. Alg. II? Choices are:
repeat the H. Alg. II(he has B first and C second semester - and doesn't want to repeat)
or take Math Studies ( I or II?)
or take Intro to Stats (not AP).
Then go into the regular gr 11 & 12 sequence of Methods SL I and II</p>
<p>Barium - what do you think of moving from H. Alg. II to Math Studies II without Math Studies I in between. You have the content correct.</p>
<p>Yes - that's possible, but there are two issues (1) He is having difficulty with H. Alg. II and so is afraid to go straight into Methods SL I - afraid it will be too difficult, and (2) What math would he then take senior year? Stats? (remember it isn't AP)</p>
<p>Going straight into Methods I is, I am guessing, the usual sequence (or - what precalc do the HL Math kids do?). That would also lighten his course load and testing load his senior year, which would probably be quite nice. With IB, senior year is often more intense than the infamous junior year. Taking stats next year would just give him a year to forget the Alg II material he's struggling with now so I don't recommend that path at all. I'd also discourage taking Alg II again. Since he is passing, is he even allowed to retake the course? I don't like that idea. If he's truly worried about taking Methods I, he could do Studies I next year and then Methods I & II, which would give him a very strong background in precalc. But see what his current math teacher has to say about his ability to do well in Methods next year. If he does do the SL Math test after junior year, I think Intro Stats would be a fine option for senior year - though I don't understand how a full year of stats wouldn't approach the AP level.</p>
<p>M&M - you are correct. He is on the HL track, but this year has convinced him he'd like to get off that train and have math at the SL level. So what you suggest: H. Alg. II --->SL I ---> SL II ----> Intro to Stats would work, he is just afraid of having another year as difficult as this one!
Do I understand that the other option you suggest is:
H. Alg. II ---->Math Studies I ---->SL I ---->SL II?
His school is suggesting the above, but with Studies II instead of I , which seemed odd to me - as I say - I am not understanding most of the explanation I'm getting from the school.</p>
<p>Remember - I am not a math person - is "Pre-calc" completely different topics than Alg II /Trig? Could it be that a person who finds the latter difficult, might find the topics in pre-calc less daunting (he is good in math in general)</p>
<p>Yes, those are the options I was suggesting. Algebra II and Precalc are very similar, so a good foundation is important, which is one reason I also don't understand the school's recommendation of Methods II. You're right, that does seem odd, since with the explanations the school gave you, that would have him skipping a year of precalc, doing the "end" of precalc and the very beginnings of calculus concepts and then going BACK to start precalc over when he did Methods I. I'd stick with Studies I -> Methods I & II, since Studies I would come right after Algebra II. I think Studies I would be a good review of Algebra II concepts and ease into "pre-calculus," which would put him in a very good place to continue with Methods I. </p>
<p>There's a huge difference between HL Math and Math Studies though, the equivalent of 2 years of math at the time of the test. Methods might be right for him, so IF it would be fairly easy to change from Methods I to Studies next year after classes start if it turns out he does have a hard time, I'd suggest giving Methods I a try.</p>
<p>Why can't he take Methods I or Studies I in grade 10 and then take Methods II or Studies II in grade 11?</p>
<p>You can't take an IB exam until 11th grade, but there's no IB requirement that says you can't take the first year of a two-year sequence in 10th grade.</p>
<p>The advantage of this is that if he does well, he could take AP Calculus, outside the IB program, in 12th grade. On the other hand, if he doesn't do well, he could repeat one of the IB math courses if necessary.</p>
<p>The C in Algebra II worries me, though. Algebra II is fundamental to all later math. If your son doesn't want to repeat the course, would he be amenable to the idea of reviewing the content with a tutor over the summer? It would be better to get tutoring now than later because most math tutors know how to work with a kid on Algebra II but fewer are familiar with the content of IB math courses.</p>
<p>Thanks M&M.
I think S and I will talk to the math dept as well as his teacher to see if what you describe above makes sense to them. I'd like next year to be less math-centric for S!</p>
<p>Marian - I like your idea of tutoring over the summer and we are planning on that. S likes the idea too.
Do you know how colleges look at repeating a course? Our school would have both courses show up on the transcript, but one would say NG (for no grade).
Also, if he did math studies (the lower level) I --->math studies II ---->Intro to Stats, he's afraid it would be easy and reflect poorly to colleges.
It's hard for me to know, as H. Alg. II was the highest math I ever took ....
Any experience there?</p>