<p>thanks mamabear, that explains some.
he got all them budges of honor! no wonder he’s the big-shot.
where is our kaelyn when we need him?
I put #8 by peter Doig to commemorate kaelyn, besides I like all version of this same guy on the canoe.</p>
<p>doh! we got crossed. yeees mama bear</p>
<h1>8 is one of the ones I would hang in my house. Also #1 and #6. Who is #5?</h1>
<p>ok people #2 is not any fruits, but fruits by Caravaggio. again I could have put more obvious ones but needed bit of variety, no?
so you don wanna Caravaggio living room, me neither. and the apple is bruised and gotta bug’s in it, very caravagging in the way, is this what you mean? mama bear, am I doing good crits?</p>
<p>crossed again!
wow discussion is discussing! </p>
<h1>5 is earlier Anselm Kiefer that loveblue gave D grade. It is tiny drawing with bit of water color.</h1>
<p>see, even Kiefer started small. see how big he got!!!</p>
<p>Ahh, Kiefer. Now I see it with the drama, the field and flowers/blood. We saw his work at MassMoca in North Adams in airplane hangar sized rooms. It felt like standing in a war ravaged landscape. But it is surprising to see a figure, well a head, in his imagery. </p>
<p>Yes, bears…thanks for the Art History 101. Better than sitting in a dark auditorium looking at slides.</p>
<p>mamabear when when when? we were there, too!! back when the kid was soph? first junior stint? on fall Jewish holiday break, I dragged him to see (gasp) Williams. family friend that migrated from Brooklyn lives there and snuck us in.
MassMOCA was not as WOW!! as Dia:Beacon but sure Williams (and poor North Adams) deserve bragging right.
people visiting berkshire should make effort to spend money there (sorry we didn’t) please. help North Adams’ economy.</p>
<p>I think the OP needs a good art history class. One to torture him enough to maybe open his mind a little.</p>
<p>So before the rest of us check out of this side conversation, wonder if the OP has what he needed. OP?</p>
<p>gosh…butcher…take it easy. It took 47 years and having an artistic son to “open” my mind a little …and I still wonder, is it really more “open” or am I just older and more confused? </p>
<p>There are few things as powerful as the the passion and certainty of youth…that is what takes us all forward and it should be celebrated…time enough for self-doubt, uncertainty, the grey areas (pun intended) to sneak into a maturing head…</p>
<p>^ nice post - thanks from a passionate and certain youth!</p>
<p>I want to look up more by Kiefer as that one is probably my favorite. I am kind of bummed that I am not recognizing all of these famous artists (Other than the Picasso), and here I was confident after getting my art history exam back today. Haha</p>
<p>Skyline
don’t worry, keep in mind that I am a foreigner and 30years or so older than you. what taught must be changed. and they are totally biased list, as ^^^ all side tracked chatting provides.
To tell you the truth, I slept thru AH classes. had no care or interest at all if I didn’t like something (you’d still get degree in Japanese artschool this way)
until my kid started going to see them. He and his friends, mentors, teachers taught me how to feel them.
you picked what I love love: #5 Kiefer and #6 Luc Tuymans
you got bears’ paw of approval ( which worth nothing, sorry)</p>
<p>Haha, that is very encouraging! And that paw of approval is very exciting too.</p>
<p>my preferences:</p>
<ol>
<li>C+</li>
<li>C</li>
<li>C-</li>
<li>C</li>
<li>D+</li>
<li>C-</li>
<li>D</li>
<li>D+</li>
<li>D-</li>
<li>B-</li>
</ol>
<p>and no, I wouldn’t want any of it hanging anywhere within view =)
While I wouldn’t mind a nice Bouguereau hanging somewhere. </p>
<p>So OP I would suggest you look into an atelier as was suggested earlier in the thread. Of course these days in the current economic climate, I would argue that a Bachelor’s in anything would be a plus. Degrees in Literature, History, etc give the artist a huge wealth of material to draw on… after all, no matter how well you paint, you will still need the conceptual ideas behind your work. </p>
<p>There are also many interesting online options these days to supplement an atelier.</p>
<p>I would like to just weigh in for a moment on sophiabutchers posts on this topic. Those who have an open mind are unlikely to criticize in such a mean vein another’s preferences. So Ms. Butcher I would encourage you to have an open mind.</p>
<p>I saw no post where OP “dissed” conceptual art, just stated a preference for more literal imagery. Yet Ms. Butchers posts have been pretty personal tinged with a little self-righteous cruelty. </p>
<p>Two thoughts, Ms. Butcher is young and an obvious fan of conceptual art yet it would be interesting to have a conversation with her in about 15 to 20 years. I suspect a few years out in the work force will have tempered her absoluteness a bit. Having an open mind means being open to the fact that some may not have the same likes and that doesn’t mean that they are wrong or shouldn’t be in the field. </p>
<p>Ms. Butcher, almost every artist that paved the way to new “schools” of work bucked the current favorite which is, in this case, conceptual art. In fact Ms. Butcher conceptual art is no longer the new wave, it was the shocking new wave when I was in school many many years ago. OP might just be the one who will pave the way to the new best big thing.</p>
<p>And please Ms. Butcher, if this is the way you react and act in critiques, temper your self-righteousness a bit and go a little easier on your fellow classmates. Remember that your adherence to the tenants of “conceptualism” may please young instructors who undoubtedly work in that manner but it is not really the end all be all. For every school of thought and work, there was something that preceded it and something that will follow. The pendulum usually swings pretty far in the opposite direction so OP might just be on the right track. But that’s not the point, the point is OP should be able to state a preference without being attacked. Slow down, calm down and read your art history. Conceptualism too shall pass, as have surrealism, cubism, pop art, op art, neoclassicism and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>Ah Ms Butcher I owe you a bit of an apology, I see that OP did in fact fire the first shot with his “********” comment about the video. Perhaps it’s your video that he “dissed”? But my comments still stand although I now see you were initially answering in defense of a school of work that you embrace. Take the higher road then and OP take that advice also. You both need to understand that not liking a certain type of work and stating you don’t like it is fine, just don’t do it in such a dismissive and aggressive manner. It’s just art for goodness sake. Have a sense of humor.</p>
<p>I think both of you need to understand that this too shall pass and soon something else will be the slavishly followed new “thing”. Personally in my humble opinion, any true artist would avoid the slavishly followed “correct way to work” like the plague, but of course that’s just my humble opinion. But my apologies (partial) to Ms. Butcher as I initially just saw the go to trade school comment and winced. And actually in this economy going to trade school might actually be better advice than art school, cheaper and more likely to produce work that keeps one off the parent’s couch and out in the world on one’s own. Of course my real take is that in this economy you might as well follow your dream as taking course thinking they insure some sort of work is a fallacy.</p>
<p>Ah that was not trade school you recommended but community college which “will not get you anywhere.” Actually community college will get you a lot of college credits at a much lower cost which will get you out of college without a huge debt load. That’s somewhere.</p>
<p>lil old smarty, I gotta run and just scanned what you hav to say.
I’ll be back near future but let me say this ( again!!! )
butcher here works like crazy, s/he supports family as a breadwinner.
donno what happened to fancy art boarding school s/he should be at, I smell something struggling bad
please be easy on kids, ANY kids, kids are kids, we are the adults.
see them thru good bad cute and ugly.
we want them be art loving nice advice giver like yourself. not twisted biased poisonous beardog like me
love OXOXOXOX</p>
<p>Well that’s why I posted the second note, I was traveling when I saw the original stuff so obviously hadn’t read it through quite enough. Butcher, I’m just saying I understand your gut reaction to OP’s original post but also keep in mind please what I said about locking into one school of work with too much zeal, as I said there’s always something that came before and there will always be something that comes after. Also don’t discount community colleges or trade schools, they are an efficient way to get a start without going into too much debt. Yes, you’re exposed to perhaps more advanced work and ideas at the better schools but remember that teachers are by default invested very heavily in whatever school of work is popular at the various schools right now, i.e. conceptual art. </p>
<p>Remember that what has in the past been determined as “good” art is often determined by what artist a gallery owner/publicist takes a shine too. And that’s often determined by what’s marketable or in the case of a good gallery owner/publicist by what they personally like. There’s this other business side to the art world that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. The original conceptual artists were shocking, shocking is often good for a gallery owner or museum director because of the publicity which draws people. But shocking does not in and of itself make a piece of art good and I think sometimes shocking conceptual art passes for “good”. But it’s all so subjective, OP could have voiced his/her disapproval in a better way and I hope you take to heart my advice about not being so dismissive of someone who doesn’t click with conceptual art. It’s a big world with a lot of choices.</p>