<p>^ … for me pretty simple … when the cost outweighs the benefit. In this case I’d be willing to waste a little time (and money) on extra applications to save the time and aggravation from the grandparents about not submitting the apps. However when things get into moral boundaries the time for confrontation arrives much sooner … for example, if the grandparents were advocating lying on the applications.</p>
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<p>That would not have been workable if the applicant concerned was applying from a high school that set a maximum limit of college applications for all applicants to both prevent excessive cross-competition between similarly performing students and encourage students to judiciously choose reach, match, and safety schools. </p>
<p>My urban public magnet set the maximum to 8 applications…including application to multiple SUNY/CUNY schools(each system counted as one app).</p>
<p>Also, sometimes GCs can and will prevent students from applying to schools that are considered wild mismatches academically. One GC at my high school recounted how he strongly discouraged a high Ivy stats kid from applying to BC because he felt the latter school was far below his academic capabilities and student’s main reason was because he was a big Eagles football fan. By the same token, GCs also strongly discouraged kids with far too low stats from applying to the elite colleges/universities…sometimes excessively so.</p>
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<p>I didn’t read the whole thread, but I think that question can be answered by how often the grandparents try to influence things. If it’s once in a blue moon, this could be the last time. I’d consider their age, their history of trying to have their way, etc. I’d also consider that this is their grandchild, not just my child, and that grandparents also have dreams for their grandchildren. If she applies, she could answer the “Why Stanford?” essay (or whatever school it would be) honestly. “It’s really important to my grandparents that I apply to this school. I’m applying because I love them and felt I should honor this request.” That would honestly say something about the character of the daughter while also signaling that this is not her dream school.</p>
<p>It’s inappropriate for grandparents to enforce their dreams for their grandchildren. It’s inappropriate for the grandparent to “insist” a granddaughter who is interested in small LAC’s apply to Stanford, just like it would be inappropriate for the grandparents to insist she study medicine when she wants to be an artist (or whatever).</p>
<p>I probably haven’t mentioned that D2 is not a particularly compliant child… if she decides she does not want to apply, she won’t lie or apply (even with their credit card). </p>
<p>This certainly isn’t the first advice/pushiness on their part in my life! They are a little more hands off with my kids (not completely) than they are with me. Dad was VERY insistent on my college selection and major (which I gave into, and often regret…). He has been admirably silent on D1’s major (political science), which I suspect he thinks is a waste of her time and talent. So far no input on D2’s major. :)</p>
<p>Her HS does not limit the number of applications (but I expect her to apply some restraint, having been through this once). D1 had 8 applications planned (skipped the last one once she had been admitted to the school she ended up attending, so actually did 7). I think that is a pretty reasonable number.</p>
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<p>Has she told them that she is not interested in attending Stanford?</p>
<p>I am not certain. They have generally been pressuring me outside of her hearing (“let’s go walk the dog” has become a euphemism for “I want to lecture you on D2’s college choice”). Except for my mom dragging D2 off to her friend’s house to look at a Stanford viewbook, D2 hasn’t heard much of it. Although I have pretty much filled D2 in… I didn’t ask D2 what she said to my mom during that trip, but D2 is actually pretty quiet/shy. She probably didn’t tell my mom outright that she doesn’t want to go there. It would probably just trigger them to lecture her about how wrong they think she is.</p>
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<p>Yes, it is inappropriate, although I’m not sure how a grandparent can enforce anything. The question really isn’t whether or not it’s inappropriate. The question is how best to handle it assuming the intent is to preserve a relationship. There are obviously a number of ways to go – outright defiance and a declaration that the relationship will be severed if they bring it up again and bowing to their desires are at both ends of the spectrum and neither seems particularly appealing unless you either want to end the relationship or completely give in. I think the solution lies somewhere in between those extremes and, depending on the nature of the relationship and what is desired, the OP can move closer to one end or the other. My suggestion about throwing an app in is closer to giving in than some people would feel comfortable with but does reduce the need for immediate open conflict and presents the possibility that she won’t get in and the issue will die a natural death. The fact that the grandfather has not said anything about a major he probably doesn’t approve of with D1 probably means there won’t be ongoing power struggles once she’s in college. I think if it was me, I’d discuss it with my daughter and let her weigh in on whether or not she wants to throw an app in and make a decision as a family.</p>
<p>Really, not going to ask D2 to “throw in an app” at a college that SHE is not interested in. The good news (I guess) is that the grandparents live several hundred miles away, and aren’t hassling her too much. Believe me, they won’t pull that trick of taking her off on an “errand” to visit friends whose grandkids are going to one of the colleges they would prefer. I made that VERY clear, and they did get that message!</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone will sever the relationship (on either side) over this, either. Trust me, if that didn’t happen over the 2008 elections, this certainly won’t do it. :)</p>
<p>Try either humor or deflection. For example, instead of protesting or arguing, you could pretend to be genuinely interested and ask questions about the application process that your parents are unlikely to be able to answer (either serious or deliberately obtuse or frivolous). The point is simply not to engage with your Dad on the terms that he wants to engage.</p>
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<p>Intparent / intparent D are not “defying” grandpa by not applying to Stanford - they are simply just doing what they intend on doing in the first place, which is apply to colleges that suit intparent D’s interests. To defy someone is to not do something that someone in a position of authority has decreed you must do. So to frame not applying to Stanford as “defiance” doesn’t feel like the right frame, to me.</p>
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<p>Perhaps they are afraid that she will tell them that she is not interested, and that will be the end of it. As long as they use you as the intermediary, they will be able to avoid hearing the bad (for them) news directly from her.</p>
<p>I agree that defy was a poor choice of words. The other good news is that the deadline is five weeks away and once it passes where to apply will no longer be an issue. At least application season is shorter than an election season, although it doesn’t always feel like it:)</p>
<p>I am late to this thread, but I did want to throw in my words of support for the OP. I personally would not let my 80 year old parents to harangue me on something like this, which is totally none of their business. As a parent, I would not do this to a child, and as a grandparent, they have no “standing” to do so. Since you are not the applicant, and since you are an adult, they are just harassing you, and this is uncalled for. </p>
<p>I realize that this is easy to say since they are your parents, not mine, but if the money issue is their hot button, I think you should continually bring it up if they do not stop. Keep asking, will you be paying, contributing,etc. Remind them of the cost. Do a spreadsheet of the value of the money spent on this and what it would be worth 30 years down the road (depending on the assumed rate of interest, 250000 now is worth many many millions to your daughter at age 40 or 50. </p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>The tuition is about the same at most private institutions. I don’t believe it is much higher at Stanford.</p>
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<p>I agree with this approach.</p>
<p>I think it’s a parent’s job to stand up for their children, and cajoling a kid to toss an app in to please grandpa says that your loyalties are with grandpa, not your own child.</p>
<p>“Yes, Stanford is a great school, but D isn’t interested, she’s interested in schools that are more XYZ and we support her fully in that, so she’s not going to be applying to Stanford.” Lather, rinse, repeat. The more the discussion veers to how good Stanford is, or how well the neighbor’s kid liked it, or the cost, the more you are reinforcing that grandpa’s opinion matters in the decision.</p>
<p>OP, I am dealing with a similar situation. My mom is actually angry and tells us she is very disappointed if my D chooses to go to Ohio State. My D was just accepted here and even though she will have many choices, this is at the top. My mom actually said my D will come out with a poor education, a poor writer and without good chances at grad schools. She vehemently hates public schools.</p>
<p>My mom graduated from the college of Wooster and she thinks COW, Kenyon, Denison or some other expensive and high ranked lac is the only place good enough for my D. My girl is smart and has excellent stats but her act is a 28, (29 superscored). I try to explain to my mom that even if she got into Kenyon, we would have to take out so many loans my D would be in debt for decades. And the sad part is, she could afford to give my 2 girls substantial $ for college (not hundreds of thousands, but a tidy sum) and she absolutely refuses. She said she will give them each $2,000 - $3,000 per year. :o</p>
<p>My husband and I cannot afford a huge amount at all and she will be very dependent on scholarships but of they don’t bring the price down or preferably below that of a public she will have to go to Ohio State. I am an only child and just feel it is completely unfair of my.mom to insert her opinion when she hardly wants to contribute anything especially when she could be contributing a lot. Sigh. I haven’t told her this but maybe when it all breaks down this spring, she will either help my D or learn to keep her mouth shut.</p>
<p>And at the rate it is going, I will have no problem telling her to SHUT UP!</p>
<p>Not sure if trying a data-drive approach would work, but just in case they might be open to the topic . . .</p>
<p>the core messages are </p>
<ol>
<li>elite colleges turn down a lot of deserving, smart and accomplished kids</li>
<li>in fact they turn down MOST of those desrving applicants</li>
<li>take one fo the Ivies, for example . . . Brown said no to
80% of the kids who had a perfect 800 on the SAT Critical reading
83% of the kids who had a perfect 800 on the SAT Math
81% of Valedictorians
86% of Salutatorians
90% of kids who finished in the top 10% of their class</li>
<li>anyway, Kid is applying to schools that interest her </li>
</ol>
<p>This may not work at all, but it might be worth a try . . my Mom’s 84 year old Dartmouth alum boyfriend was sure that his smart accomplished grandkid from CA was going to be a shoo-in for the Old Green . . . I gave him the data-driven talk and it went in one ear and out the other . . . he was rueful when g-kid got turned down</p>
<p>At some point you will just need to learn how to go all ju jitsu on them, let them rant away and get ready to say the non-committal and kindly “well, Kid is looking at colleges that interest her” over and over and over and over again.</p>
<p>My problem with making it about “elite colleges turn down a lot of smart kids, they turn down x% of those with perfect scores, etc.” is that it doesn’t address the core issue - which is that we appreciate grandpa’s interest but that it is not their business to be involved in the student’s college decision.</p>
<p>Because then what if grandpa comes up with a school that student COULD get into? Predicating it on the likelihood of admission sets it up so that grandpa feels entitled to then promote more “realistic” schools and expect his voice to be heard. Well, that’s not the point. The point isn’t that grandpa is unrealistic about what it takes to be admitted. (He may or may not be.) The point is is that it isn’t grandpa’s business or concern, no matter whether it’s Stanford with a 8% admittance rate (or whatever) or Happy State U with an 80% admittance rate. </p>
<p>It’s rather like the parenting issues that you have when your children are babies - breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, co-sleeping, whatever. You can’t frame those debates in terms of who’s “right” because it implies that parents and grandparents have an equal voice. You frame it in terms of who has standing in that decision-making. And in this case, grandparents simply don’t have standing in that decision-making. You can argue about Stanford - but you can’t argue about that, because it’s an incontrovertible fact.</p>