<p>mimk6, unfortunately we have a year and 5 weeks to go (D2 is a HS junior this year). Sigh.</p>
<p>mspearl, I have a bit of sympathy with your mom (but only because I am a Michigan grad :D). Seriously, it sounds like you have done the right thing with having your D apply to some schools she really wants to attend, but have also included a financial safety that she would be very happy with as well.</p>
<p>Regarding telling them that D is looking at colleges that interest her, trust me that my parents probably think she has the least standing in this decision. They are very bossy, and think that younger people’s opinions aren’t worth much weight. That age for “younger” keeps going up as I age, as well (my opinion didn’t count for much with them when I was 20, and still doesn’t now that I am 49!).</p>
<p>But intparent, it doesn’t MATTER that YOUR parents think that D has the least standing in the decision. If you and your D have made your selection, and you are all unified in the types of colleges that she is looking at, then their opinion that D has little standing in the decision is irrelevant, since they aren’t the decision-makers. You are giving away influence to your parents if you act as though their opinion matters and that their opinion-that-D’s-opinion-matters-little is an important one to consider. You’re giving them the influence, here. I know it’s easier said than done, but you have to learn how not to engage with them on this. And that may be uncomfortable, as it may include many repetitions of “D is not interested in Stanford and we are fully on board with her decision” and not ENGAGE in all the “but this! and that! and neighbor’s kid! and this! and that!” </p>
<p>It sounds like you are trying to convince them that D’s decision not to look at Stanford is the right decision (for many reasons - cost, personal fit, unlikely to get in, etc.) But that argument STILL IMPLIES THAT THEY NEED TO APPROVE of D’s decision not to look at Stanford. The argument you need to have with them is … who gets to have a voice / say in D’s college decision? How can they possibly argue that they have an equal say in it relative to you/your spouse/your D? You simply say that the three of you are happy with where D is applying and you stop right there. There is nothing else to engage with.</p>
<p>Believe me, I know from pushy relatives :-)</p>
<p>so, what can you do? IMO, the only way is to let them nag and ignore or turn off your ear. when you have one fly on your head, you are annoyed. when you have 10 flies on your head, you panic. when you have 100’s flies around you and you are sure you cannot get out of it, you just ignore. that is how pow’s survived.</p>
<p>So… if dad doesn’t hear well, tell him you already answered his question- multiple times. Then tell him if
they are really interested in the current status of college applications, they might want to read up on it on the web. There is this particularly helpful site called CC, and there are a few specific threads that might be of particular assistance. Then pull up this one :)</p>
<p>Artloverplus, I will go into “100 fly” mode. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I have no intention of letting them actually influence the process. In all fairness, my dad’s comments on alumni references did make me realize that her quiz bowl coach (who probably has better insight into her intellect than any other adult who knows her) is a grad of one college she is considering. It is a school that will accept additional recommendation letters beyond the teacher letters, so she might ask him to write her a letter. Of course that won’t get her in if she isn’t fundamentally qualified to start with, but can’t hurt. And this is a person who does know my kid’s “best self” – she LOVES quiz bowl, is extremely good at it, and works her tail off (more than she does in class sometimes).</p>
<p>Regarding referring them to CC, facts are pretty irrelevant to them when they want to believe something. “Data driven” is not a phrase I would use (“ideaology driven” is a lot closer description on many aspects of their lives). Mom doesn’t use the computer anyway, and dad is a pretty minimal user. They just turn off any source that doesn’t agree with their worldview (you can guess which ONE news channel is the only one they believe). Just one more day, they are going home tomorrow, then this thread can go dormant (until the next sneak attack). :)</p>
<p>I would not push a kid to do something they didn’t want to do. There are some kids, however, who wouldn’t mind. In those cases, it might be an option. I realize it is not an option here and don’t think it warrants further discussion. It was just a suggestion and not one that works for the OP.</p>
<p>Oh, that is unfortunate. Here is a suggestion, probably the last one I have to offer and probably a long shot. Can you arrange a sitdown with your Dad or with both parents and calmly look them in the eyes and say “I want you to know that I really hear you. I hear that you think D2 should go to an Ivy/Stanford. I hear that you think that would be the best place for her for the following reasons (you can list them.) I know that you love her and want what you think is best for her. Now I need you to hear me. She is not going to apply to one of those schools. She wants a different kind of experience, etc. We are not going to push her to apply or go somewhere that is not a fit for her and not what she wants. We are very aware of what the Ivies/Stanford have to offer. We are also very aware of what other schools have to offer. I promise you that we are making thoughtful, informed decisions. I need you to trust that we are good parents who are capable of making good decisions for our kids. I don’t want this to become a battlefield and I don’t want to go over the same ground repeatedly for another year. We can have this one discussion now. If there is something you feel you need to say that hasn’t been said, I will listen. But after today, the subject is closed. I will not entertain more discussion on the subject. You will not go behind my back to try to influence her. I hope you can be positive and supportive of her choices but, if not, then I need you to stay silent on the subject.” Or something like that. Good luck. A year is a long time.</p>
<p>I’ll admit it: that’s much better than lying. If it works, there’s no need for lying. And if the grandparents agree but then don’t live up to their end of the bargain, it provides a much better justification for lying as Plan B.</p>
<p>Yep; and then the better lie is to say, “Yeah, yeah, we threw in an app to Stanford” and just not do it, than to go through with the app to Stanford and deliberately torpedo it, IMO.</p>
<p>Or, if they don’t agree to the boundaries that OP is setting (and it’s not really a bargain because she is setting the limit), OP can say, “As I said before, the subject is closed. I need you to respect that.” If they don’t, then let messages go to voicemail for a while or find a way to put some muscle into what is said. You could sweetly say, “I really hope we don’t have to limit seeing each other until applications are over. That would be a shame and not at all what I want. But I do insist that you respect that the discussion on this subject is over and that the decision is ours/hers and the “no Ivies” decision has already been made after much thought.” I would absolutely expect the parents to step over the line. Why wouldn’t they? Do we expect that we will tell our kids something and not have them test it? It’s worse with parents because they actually were in charge at one time. It takes some finesse and some firmness and it may take showing that you mean what you say, but I think it’s better to establish limits than to lie and OP has already said that she will not lie.</p>
<p>Just to weight in with the opposite problem. Our kids’ grandparents are deeply offended over them applying to elite schools. Our older one went to an elite school and the grandparents on both sides were just furious. Seriously. To them these schools are the epicenter of elitism and privilege in our society. They refused to attend son’s graduation! </p>
<p>So grandparents can be poop-heads in lots of different ways.</p>
<p>sewhappy, Your kids’s grandparents are not the only example. My kid’s grandparents are similar, except that the reason is not “elitism and privilege.” They likely believe that the money WE earned (but they think they have some rights to “help” decide how we use it) should be spent elsewhere, or worried that they might be asked to help financially (We did not, and dared not, even though they are not poor by any stretch of imagination, many times wealthier than us.)</p>
<p>My kid was admitted into one of these four schools during the EA cycle a few years ago. We decided not to tell them to avoid conflicts between them and us (and the kid involved.)</p>
<p>We eventually told them though; it was just too difficult to hide this from them when my kid has several cousins who were in high school or in college at that time. They still scold us (fortunately not directly to our son) for “being stupid” to make the choice. But I heard indirectly they bragged about it to whoever they had a chance to brag about it, but only when we were not around.</p>
<p>Wow, sewhappy. I would not trade my poop-heads for yours. :)</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, my parents are very “lectury”. Listening is NOT a skill on their list. So while I would hope MY kids would sit down and have the kind of conversation mimk6 proposes if I were overstepping my boundaries, I can’t see it really working with them. They always want to tell their position, but have no interest in listening to anyone else’s view. </p>
<p>Let’s see, Pizzagirl… regarding what they specifically say… “You are foolish if you don’t send that kid to Stanford… she is a shoo-in, they are knocking down the door to get kids like her… no way would she be denied admission…if <friend’s> grandson can get in, she certainly can…you just need to get some alumni to recognize how great she is, that will definitely do the trick…”. (Note: friend’s grandson is half African-American, and my parents have never met him, so have no real idea what his qualifications are). Any comment I make about test scores, grades, ECs, costs/no merit aid, statistics for Stanford admissions, D liking (but not loving) it when she visted, or D’s strongly favorable reaction to several LACs is met with, “That may well be, BUT…” with a repeat of the types of comments I just listed. </friend’s></p>
<p>I know that it is hopeless to divert them. The only resolution is time (one year and 5 weeks!). Thanks to everyone for listening to me vent, though. Better to you guys than back at them (most of the time!).</p>
<p>My suggestion is to say as little as possible. If they start talking, say something like I know we have so much to consider, we have so much to Consider.</p>
<p>Don’t argue, don’t explain, don’t justify, don’t bother, just say the minimum you can, and don’t give them any thing answer back to. They have no clue and you don’t need to be rude, but just, wow that surenis something to think about, and yeah d2 sure is awesome…there is no point in debate here</p>
<p>Just as you have surmised, the financial aspect is a big part of the antagonism toward the elite college with both sets of grandparents. They spent not a penny on their own kids’ education and are terrified of being asked to contribute to their grandkids’ education. My older siblings have approached them to send their kids to public schools. I have no idea if they were given help or not. We knew better than to ask. Even if they’d been willing, there would have been too many strings attached.</p>
<p>And at my FIL’s funeral a year ago several of his buddies told us how much he bragged about his grandson (our son) who went to an elite college.</p>
<p>OP here, thought I would give an update. My parents cornered me in their hotel room at D1’s college graduation last month for a long lecture AGAIN on what college D2 should go to. However… they also offered some financial assistance. Which makes it more complicated, IMHO. They are still barking up the wrong tree on the type of college she wants to go to. And I know from my own college days that if they have a financial investment in this, they will feel free to pressure her to major in what they think she should major in (regardless of her interests or talents). Assuming the economy does not tank (obviously that is a big if, thanks to Greece, Spain, and Italy’s current situations…), we can swing any school on her list if we have to without their help. If the economy tanks, it will be harder for them to help anyway. And some schools that she likes a lot may give her merit aid.</p>
<p>So… after thinking it over for a couple of weeks after getting home, I emailed my dad. I thanked him for the offer, but said we were going to handle this on our own. And that we would like a moratorium on college discussions about D2 – we will let them know in May what she has decided. He did not reply to the email. But I have chatted with both of them on the phone on other subjects since, and we are going to visit next week. So I am hoping that this is the last of it until May. It is hard enough to get three people (D2, me, and my ex-H) on the same page with this. I just can’t handle any more guff from them on it.</p>
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