<p>I tried to post yesterday as a new forum member, hopefully this one works. I am the parent of a high school senior (D) that has been accepted by UofR. The past few months have been very stressful as she and I navigated the waters of college admissions.</p>
<p>D applied to several Ivies and got rejected by all except Cornell where she was waitlisted. We are down to UofR and 1 other school. I have been following the Rochester discussion for months and here is my impression:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Admissions: I dont think a finer group of people exist in this business. They have a tough job in the hyper competitive climate. I spoke to admissions yesterday, they said that the class of 2015 is by a fair measure the most competitive on record. I believe that the quality of the class will be exceptional. I have to tip my hat to Mconklin and everyone I have spoken to in admissions. They are candid, honest, thoughtful and genuine. I compare that to the cold online "we are sorry to inform you" of the ivies along with their lack of input into wonderful forums like CC and know that this does in fact make a difference to engaged parents like myself. We had several questions on admissions for a few of the Ivies over the past several months and never had the warm and collaborative response like the UofR people displayed. Trust me, it makes a difference.</p></li>
<li><p>Academics: I think UofR is a fine school, my daughter is an academic and will thrive there if we choose UofR. I like most if not everything I have heard. I grew up near Syracuse (live in a warmer climate now), and 25 years ago, UofR had a good reputation, but I think the rigor and depth/breadth has grown since those days. No school is perfect, but I think it is worth somewhat of a premium.</p></li>
<li><p>Environment: I know upstate NY well, and don't miss the weather. D knows that she will freeze and be largely deprived of an orange object in the sky for the months October-March, but she is OK with it. The economic climate of upstate NY is tough, and the reason I left. I worry somewhat about job prospects and recruiting from top employers, but have been told that yes, they do make the trip to the school. I hope so....</p></li>
<li><p>Branding/Image: I took a poll of about 20 people here in southern PA. I told them that my daughter was looking at UofR and all but one thought I meant RIT. I think that the brand is morerecognized in academic than it is by the general public. This also worries me a bit, but then I remind myself that she is going to learn and grow and not to impress people in an elevator conversation. I do think UofR should market better, and just to poke some fun, here are a few suggestions:</p></li>
</ol>
<p>a. "Harvard of the frozen tundra"
b. "We're cold but we're good"
c. "The Great Lakes Ivy"
d. "Free arctic wear to all incoming freshmen"
e. "Our students keep their heads down both to study and to avoid frostbite"</p>
<ol>
<li>Final Thoughts: Frankly, I like the school, even though I will go broke sending my D there. I hope it all works out for her and she enjoys it. While her Ivy and elite college experience was sobering and a tough pill to swallow for a kid that has never gotten anything but an A and the highest of test scores, I think she will bounce back and do well if she decides to go to UofR. I would like to thank the admissions folks for being so nice to us, it really does mean a great deal as we make this decision.</li>
</ol>
<p>^^^BofD—I think you’re correct about #4. DH was an academic in a field where UR has a outstanding reputation (optical physics). Among his peers, UR is a very familiar name because, frankly, a several of his colleagues have gone there for grad school. D2 has never worried that UR wasn’t well known enough simply because in academic circles, UR is quite well known.</p>
<p>And let me ease your mind a little with an anecdote. Last summer D2 (who’s at UR) and a friend hiked the entire John Muir Trail in California. As two pretty 20 YO girls hiking alone, they attracted considerable attention. One question that everyone asked them was “Where do you go to college?” When D2 answered UR, people as diverse as grad students from CalTech & Berkeley, 50-something software guys from Silicon Valley, a pair of former Israeli soldiers, undergrads from UGA and a high school student with his businessman dad from SF–all instantly knew which school she was talking about and expressed favorable impressions of the school.</p>
<p>And BTW, I agree- the admission people at UR are really nice to deal with.</p>
<p>I noted on another thread that no one outside of kids applying to colleges recognizes Washington University because it isn’t in Washington state or DC but is in St. Louis. What the heck? But it’s a terrific school, similar in many ways to UR. </p>
<p>Good employers know UR. That’s not an issue. Name recognition in fields where UR is well known is - duh - high. Not an issue.</p>
<p>This was the first time in 6 years that Rochester had much snow. Weird. Syracuse got killed but Rochester was near long-term average. </p>
<p>It is cloudy in New York state because of the lake but it’s also cloudy in Boston or Toronto. You have to go to warmer weather to be near water and not have as many clouds. </p>
<p>All the people you deal with at UR are nice. Maybe they put something in the water.</p>
<p>D2 went to Student Health yesterday to start her immunizations for her trip to Africa in May. The doc asked why she was going and she told him that she’s going as a medical volunteer with a charitable NGO that tests & treats & educates AIDS orphans. The doc arranged to have D2’s insurance co-pays waived and also waived the cost of her one non-reimbursable immunization. </p>
<p>Wow, what a great note way-out, more proof that they walk the walk. It has taken a few days, but I think my D has adjusted to the sting and is looking forward to uofr. </p>
<p>We are trying to make arrangements to visit on the 15th for the arts weekend. </p>
<p>BankOfDad… First of all, I love your screen name. Secondly, I appreciate your thoughtful post and hope you don’t mind if I share it with some of my colleagues!</p>
<p>Share away, you folks are different than the norm, be sure of that. I truly believe that a school can be academically very selective and human at the same time. I believe that the social interaction on this board, the helpful and non-judgmental interaction on the phone have won me and I am sure many others over. I believe this is a strategically competitive advantage for your institution. </p>
<p>Bankofdad is not just a screen name, it is a lifestyle!</p>
<p>BankofDad…I can relate to how stressful the past few months have been. I have an MBA and getting that degree was not this stressful!</p>
<p>My son got accepted at UofR, but was rejected by the Ivies he applied to. Although, he was given scholarship awards by all the other schools that accepted him. He is one of the top students at his high school, so was disappointed with those rejections. He is quite excited about the chance to attend UofR due to its being a research university. He’s an international student and is therefore not qualified for student loans and has limited financial aid. You make very good points about the university and the more I’m learning about UofR, the more I’m hoping my son ends up going there.</p>
<p>Coming from a tropical country, where the average temp. is around 29 degrees C, I can imagine how different the weather will be. But he says he’ll survive…you know how kids are!</p>
<p>Just change the “C” to “F” for temperature! </p>
<p>When I went to college 100 years ago, it was not nearly as competitive. It is a whole new game these days. I learned last year in visiting the Ivies how many kids had paid “coaches” to guide them through the process and that some of the coaches had been in place since middle school. I knew then that we did not have much of chance, regardless of aptitude and results both academically and with ECs. </p>
<p>They had paid coaches, my daughter had me. I have to tell you that going through the process together made us stronger as Dad/daughter. I did feel after all the rejections came in that I failed as a coach, the failure was felt by both of us. I poured through the mental checklist of all of the items on her app, all of the reviews done on her essays, etc. I overanalyzed the whole thing only to come to a final realization- it wasn’t my fault, it wasn’t her fault, it just went down this way. We did everything by the book and as a team without outside help. I’m very proud of that. My daughter learned that BankofDad wasn’t just a bank, that he had ideas and thoughts and suggestions and wisdom and points of view that are as relevant today as they were that 100 years ago. </p>
<p>At the end of the whole story, I now view my daughter as an adult. She learned the sting of rejection for the first time, the seemingly unjust ways of the world and still wound up in a good place. I learned a lot about new older self and how to relate to contemporary college admissions. The best part of the whole thing is the conclusion of the journey and new potential beginning at UofR. She doesnt feel she can save the world, but she feels that she can make a difference. I feel compelled to believe in her, BankofDad will teeter on the brink of insolvency, but hey, if the Fed can do it, why cant I?</p>
<p>BofD… That is an incredibly refreshing perspective. You and your daughter seem to have gained something that you could not have had you gone about this process in any other way.</p>
<p>I was myself a student that had aspirations of going to an Ivy (a few of my siblings did), and when it didn’t work out I ended up at a small liberal arts school where I thrived in ways that I likely would not have at the schools that I believed I was supposed to be at. I was able to play lacrosse at a competitive level and got to know my professor’s on a first name basis, I met my wife and made some wonderful long-lasting friendships… I think it is important to maintain some perspective in this process and understand that there are lessons to be gained from the whole thing.</p>
<p>Your daughter will have an outstanding education and many opportunities at the University of Rochester. My daughter graduated in 2010 and among her group of friends, there were several who turned down Cornell in favor of the University of Rochester as well as many other Ivy rejects who did very well. The winter weather you get used to… and while upstate NY is grey for a lengthy winter, it is glorious in Sept and October and when we visited in 2006 for Accepted Students day… it was a spectacular spring day with the campus in bloom and many happy people.</p>
<p>Ivy admission has become a literal crapshoot. I went to Yale and a joke in my class is that few of us would get in now and we could name the ones who would: the athletes, the very rich, and the very unusual. Add to that a dash of minority students and you have few places for boat loads of qualified kids. </p>
<p>The way I view it is this: it isn’t rejection. Actual rejection is when they don’t want you and that is a lesson yet to be learned: you go through a hiring process with a ridiculous number of tests and exercises or you audition and you get turned down. These school rejections are just numbers games. </p>
<p>It’s difficult for Mike and his fellows in admissions to go through 14k applications but some of these schools of similar size - e.g., Yale - get 10k more. Sure they go through a process of reading and evaluating but the differences between students who are all high achievers, all the very best students, all with tons of interests, is not actually measurable. They make decisions because they have to make decisions, but on any objective scale they could pick the same quality class from their rejects, perhaps almost at random.</p>
<p>A similar thing can happen at grad school levels because there are so many kids applying to econ programs, for example, with extreme math ability and very high grades and scores. The differences may not cumulatively even be a whole point. But they have to draw a line somewhere.</p>
<p>Thanks all. We signed up for the arts and open house weekend on the 15th, looking forward to attending. I really loved the way that Lergnom put it:</p>
<p>“The way I view it is this: it isn’t rejection. Actual rejection is when they don’t want you and that is a lesson yet to be learned: you go through a hiring process with a ridiculous number of tests and exercises or you audition and you get turned down. These school rejections are just numbers games.”</p>
<p>If schools could take kids, they would, they just don’t have the space. Much better way to think about it.</p>
<p>I work in the I.T. business, we call this “scale”. The ability to scale is not something that schools and universities deal with today. I do wonder with the influx of technology over the next 20 years with technologies such as “immersive telepresence” if elite schools decide to try and scale to wider audiences in some sort of semi-immersive fashion. The technology will lower the cost of entry and drive scale, potentially. The nay sayers will say that attending remotely wont work because it isnt the same, but I do think that the sheer cost, economics and improvements in immersive techniques will lead to some interesting “hybrid” models where students would attend on say a rotating basis. A school could theoretically increase the number served with some of these techniques. We shall see I suppose…</p>
<p>There are literally tons of interesting lectures on line from top schools but the online learning game is dominated by for profit schools who suck as much money out of the aid process as possible. I don’t see that changing substantially for a while. The name brands use their names on things like short courses for executives but they worry about cheapening their brand. There is also no incentive for the actual faculty at these schools to be involved; they have their teaching, research and writing. </p>
<p>People I know who’ve taught online courses say it eats time because every person submits material, questions, etc. and everything requires attention. I don’t see that appealing to brand name schools unless substantial dollars are attached.</p>
<p>I don’t have any concrete evidence, but I’ve heard anecdotally that some members of the Rochester community have pushed for online courses but have been met with significant resistance. In some ways I like the idea - I’ve taken online classes myself - but in others I am much more a traditionalist. I think it is somewhat of an inevitability though.</p>