Merit Scholarships

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Delaware
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<p>The in-state/out-of-state conflict is not unique to Delaware, nor is it a recent phenomena. It does tend to flair up in times of economic downturn when people start looking to their state schools in lieu of privates or OOS. In Virginia, there is a lot of noise in the state legislature about requiring the state schools to move to an 80/20 IS/OOS ratio (currently it is in the 65-70/35-30 range for the most desirable state schools - W&M, UVa, Va Tech, Mary Wash, and James Madison). Highly unlikely to pass - they can't afford it, for one thing - but it is mostly just posturing by state legislators for their constituents. It is a common problem in many states, but exacerbated in Delaware due to the limited number of state four-year schools (only two and most people will not consider the other one) and the small population of Delaware such that UD's enrollment is majority of out-of-staters (off the top of my head, I think it is roughly 60/40 OOS to IS).</p>

<p>Many state schools struggle with the issue - trying to find the right balance that they are providing enough opportunity for the residents who have paid and will pay the taxes that support the school but are also bringing in OOS students that can add academic, ethnic, geographic, athletic, or whatever diversity (and who just might stay in the state after graduation). The merit aid has to be doled out carefully, trying to do so in just the right amounts to encourage/allow those talented students, whether they are in-state or out-of-state, to continue considering UD. Those top 100 (out of how many applicants - 7000, 8000, 10000, 12000?) students that UD invited to Distinguished Scholars are the ones UD will shoot the works on and offer big money to. The other merit awards decrease from there - $12K, $10K, $5k, whatever and are not much influenced by IN/OOS status, so the amounts are not tied to what the tuition rate is for a particular student. Rutgers and TCNJ, Maryland, Penn State, the SUNYs, all the others, do the same thing. You might want to argue with their ranking/points/evaluation system that determined which kids would get $5k and which would get $12k, but it is not unfair and it is not personal. It is not an insult - it is just a university making some hard choices for its limited resources. Basic economics, "just business." As I pointed out in a previous post, my daughter is in a similar situation with TCNJ, which has emphasized its desire to increase its OOS enrollment (it is currently about 95% NJ residents and feels it needs to diversify to move further up the ladder of prestige/reputation/rankings) but she was offered "only" $7,000, which would bring our COA to the $24-25 range, competitive compared to some of her private school applications (Bucknell, Lehigh) but not so much compared to UD or any of the three that have offered her full rides. TCNJ is just doing what it can with its limited resources - it is still on her list but the $7K has not bumped it up as much as, say, $14K or $20K would have. I suspect that the UD offer has moved it clearly ahead of TCNJ and the decision will come down to how much Bucknell and Lehigh offer (we're not expecting much, if any, but would be pleased to be pleasantly surprised) and whether she is seriously interested in one of the full ride schools (already ruled out Nebraska and ASU, but U. of Arizona is still on the list). </p>

<p>UD's OOS COA is competitive with the other states, about the same as U. of Maryland, a bit less than Penn State, a lot less than most of the "Public Ivies" (UVa, W&M, Michigan, Berkeley, UNC). And this is something I have a stake in - I live less than five miles from the UD campus, I take courses there during the summer (no tuition for summer courses for Delaware public school teachers), I pay the taxes that support the school and allow both in-state and out-of-state students to pay the reasonable tuition they do, I work with UD graduates, I do business with UD graduates, it is a significant cultural and economic contributor to my community, and, most significantly right now, my HS senior daughter has it on her list (originally somewhat begrudgingly - "too close, too familiar" - although she is warming to it now - she has been accepted into engineering, Honors program, and was offered $10K in merit aid, so UD would be a real bargain for her).</p>

<p>Not sure if the amount of drama in this post is too much, too little, or just right. I tend not to be overly dramatic, leaving that to my 5th grade students and my daughter.</p>

<p>K9Leader</p>

62

<p>^ do you expect me to read that?</p>

63

<p>K9 Leader, I thought what you had to say was very interesting and insightful.</p>

64

<p>I was accepted yesterday but didn't see anything about any merit scholarships..
if I was awarded something should it have been listed..
or are they sending out financial aide scholarship announcements end of march?</p>

65

<p>
[quote]
^ do you expect me to read that?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah, it would probably be better if you get the Spark's Notes (Cliff Notes?) or just wait until the Pixar movie comes out.</p>

66

<p>I normally stay out of these discussions but since this one involves mostly parents, and I am the parent of a current OOS UD student, I will jump in by saying I also appreciate K9Leader's perspective.</p>

<p>I did not read the whole thread in detail but it seems to me some of the earlier posts were in reaction to a7856336 's statement:</p>

<p>"You would have every right to be insulted & I have trouble taking this school's commitment to academic excellence seriously"</p>

<p>I find the sense of entitlement in this comment unappealing. </p>

<p>Fortunately for us, and more importanly for our children, there is an every increasing number of people that are taking UD's commitment to academic excellence very seriously.</p>

67

<p>K9Leader I would have to agree with Mattmoosemom that your post contained a lot of objective information- tx for the time & effort. As far as the "entitlement" issue raised by Artiesdad, I don't know what your kids rank was, but I know what my kids was and he outworked her & EARNED more respect than he got... to the UD "cyber- boosters" thou dost protest too much</p>

68

<p>K9- quoted your post above and on page 3 concerning UD's distribution of merit aid:</p>

<p>"There is a logic behind it"</p>

<p>"The merit aid has to be doled out carefully"</p>

<p>You are not an admin rep and none of this on this thread are, so how do you determine the above? Other than my opinion that it is somewhat based on grades/GPA, I really don't know how else UD or most of the other universities in the country distribute the wealth. I know that UD and UMichigan tend to give to instate students more readily and accept those with lesser stats (and give merit to those students) and schools like UVa does not give merit to OOS other than the very hard to come by Distinguished scholar award and those in the running are all top, top students, with most finalists eliminated and getting nothing. In the above cases, we go into the application process with this knowledge. I didn't expect much merit from UD for my son, and as it is so popular a school with Long Islanders (and in the past, stats and acceptances did not always coordinate) I was pleasantly surprised my son got in. (His stats were in the top 25% but that does not always mean much.)</p>

<p>Just wondering what logic and technique is used in awarding merit at UD----- not my, your, or any posters opinion. Do you have the "in" with ad reps?</p>

69

<p>Dad,
Stop posting while you're at work.
Love,
Your Baby Girl</p>

70

<p>Busted, crazed...time to change your CC password</p>

<p>Swim: just be happy your Dad cares enough to participate on CC; good luck next year.....</p>

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<p>Rodney, what are you talking about?</p>

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<p>UVA does not give "merit" aid. The alumni foundation is the one giving out the full rides (Jefferson Scholar). In-state has no advantage over OOS for the Jefferson -- take a look at the list of winners (posted on the Jefferson Foundation site). </p>

<p>A7856336: Since you must have read all my 200+ posts and have decided that I must have a hidden agenda then please disregard the following. </p>

<p>I am trying to lower expectations of the students/parents who think they will automatically receive lots of scholarship $$$$. Once again, it is the schools' decision and you can accept it or not. All the complaining and comparing your child against another is not going to get you more money. You don't know what is in their application and you don't know what the school is looking for. Yeah -- it's not fair that someone who excels in a sport can get a full ride and if it makes you feel better to constantly complain about it -- be my guest! I don't see how this helps you or your child. You don't like UDEL's decision -- complain to them and if they don't up their award -- move on. Is it truly helpful to your child to have you tell her that she got the shaft and deserved more? Eventually she will get over her disappointment and find a school that she will love, somehow I think it will be more difficult for you to get over it -- I hope not!</p>

73

<p>Ah, you caught me. I'm just spouting nonsense. There is no logic behind anything done in the admissions process and all colleges award merit aid by throwing darts at balloons with applicants' names on them. </p>

<p>So, what did I base my comments on? Well, before career transitioning to elementary education, I was in higher education administration for 17 years, not admissions but worked closely with admissions and with financial aid and academics (I was in regulatory affairs - accreditation, licensing, degree authority, and federal eligibility). </p>

<p>Beyond that, I'm now going through the college search process for the second time. Between my two children, we've visited/researched about 40 colleges, and I've spent time with with a lot of admissions officers finding out about the process. I read a lot, I study the process, and I ask questions. </p>

<p>Class rank, GPA, SAT scores, extracurriculars are only a small part of what the admissions decision is based on, so those outside the process (the applicants, the parents) don't really have enough information to compare the outcome for one student to that of another. Some of the things we 't know are about the student (major, essays/interviews, personal background, interests, passions, and some things we don't even know we don't know). Some are things about the school - do they need tuba players for the marching band who are majoring in forestry or do they need female BME majors from western Pennsylvania? Has the school's applications jumped 15% because the economy is so bad that more applicants are more seriously considering State U. over the privates they would have considered a year or two ago? There are many, many factors intertwined and overlapping that are not apparent to those outside the process.</p>

<p>Something I'm not clear on is who makes merit aid decisions - probably a committee/office/group somewhat removed from the actual admissions process. I know that any financial aid that is need-based (i.e., the Office of Financial Aid, FAFSA, etc.) is totally separate from admissions. One thing I do know is that the admissions folks would love to offer admission to many more students than they do and hate having to tell kids they know would do well at their school that they were not accepted.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Dad,
Stop posting while you're at work.
Love,
Your Baby Girl

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Two words, baby girl: planning period</p>

75

<p>MTnest- you're totally off the point. If you could put the pom poms down a second you might be able to see the big picture. It's not about my kid. When UD recruits out of state, which you are not -so maybe you didn't get the same sales pitch, they portray a a school proactively focused on improving its academic standing. These numbers don't indicate that -any way you want to spin it. They will admit lesser students who are willing to pay the freight. Since I first posted on this board, several people who prefer not to engage in the "taste great/less filling debate", including current students & parents, have contacted me with concerns re academics. As I said to one, if that poster even admitted his kid's school ONCE served him a soggy french fry- he'd have more credibility. It is NOT about MY kid's $- as it appears to be for you since only post positively on the boards that gave your kids $. It is about hitching your horse to a wagon headed in the wrong direction. Believe me, I'm sure, given what it appears you've convinced yourself your job is on these boards, you'll never get that nuance. Where can I buy a pair of sunglasses with a Pitt & UD logo on them- preferably in the color rose?</p>

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<p>a78 - That is funny! I haven't commented on UD's food yet, but here goes. My son "likes" it so much he met with the head of dining services to offer ways to improve it. I will say that he was met with respect and a willingness to listen.</p>

77

<p>My daughter visited UDel but didn't apply, so I can't speak to its merit aid policies. Generally, though, most publics aren't generous with merit aid, especially for OOS students. The exception tends to be for those students whose academic credentials place them well above the average student at the school under consideration. That's exactly why my daughter chose to attend Kansas State University as an OOS student -- her stats put her in the top 5% of the entering class and she received more than half of the cost of attendance in merit aid for all four years. While the stats of OP's daughter are excellent, I'm not sure that they would be considered exceptional for UDel.</p>

78

<p>
[quote]
They will admit lesser students who are willing to pay the freight.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Merit aid has nothing to do with the student's ability/willingness to pay full price. They are awarding merit aid on the basis of a student's accomplishments/potential and how that fits into the university's specific needs. </p>

<p>And, being a long-time observer of UD and an educator in Delaware, I think that UD is being very proactive in maintaining quality and improving its standing. President Harker has brought with him many great ideas and plans are moving forward. However, it is a large state university with a mission to serve a wide range of students and needs and is subject to operating within the economic, political, and perceptual realities of that mission. </p>

<p>Again, I think you are taking this personally in believing that the failure to offer your child what you believe is an appropriate amount of merit aid appropriate demonstrates a lack of commitment to growth and improvement on the part of UD. UD did accept your daughter, accepted her into the Honors program, and offered her some merit aid - they do want her as a student but had to make some hard choices with the limited resources. I'm sure that everyone who participated in the decision would say they wished they could have offered more. (Gov. Markell has a press conference at 1:00 pm today to unveil the budget and will have to address a $750M shortfall - UD is going to feel part of the pain, as are schools in most of the other states.) UD knows that it cannot compete with what the COA would be for your daughter at a state school in your own state, but it can get the COA for your daughter down to where it is a very attractive alternative to a private school and may be able to come in equal to, or a bit under, other OOS publics.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, years of increasing tuition, years of stagnant/declining buying power for all but the top 2% of the socioeconomic spectrum, and the current economic turmoil have brought us to the point that our children's options are more limited than we thought they would be on that day about 18 years ago that we first envisioned this day.</p>

79

<p>Sorry K9, based on your earlier posts, a net after merit COA approaching 30k for students in top 1-3% rank doesn't strike me as competitive for these admission standards. the COA's you quoted in your post were significantly lower</p>

<p>Yesterday, 04:40 PM" I'm pretty surprised I was accepted</p>

<p>Public School
2.87 UW "</p>

<p>It's a value proposition- nothing personal-</p>

80

<p>a7856336:</p>

<p>I will not comment on my kid's credentials. Maybe she is one of the "lesser students who are willing to pay the freight." Maybe she is the one that got 1570/1600 in her SAT and got a full tuition scholarship. In either case UD is a better place because she is there.</p>

<p>I find your "lesser student" comment condescending and shortsighted. I have seen plenty of “lesser” students that not only flourish in college but make substantially more contributions to the community that some of the “star” students.</p>

<p>The effort that kids like yours put into excelling in high school should be applauded and recognized. However most people that have been through the college admissions process know there are no guarantees. “Injustices” much more significant than the one committed against your kid happen all the time.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your kid. I am sure you will find a way to “hitch the horse to a wagon that is going in the right direction”.</p>