Michigan Selectivity

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
201

<p>“u just called about 70% of the sat test takers complete morons…” </p>

<p>Actually I consider 2100 below to be ■■■■■■■■ as in their thinking ability is inferior.</p>

<p>umich 2010, you think hs achievements doesn’t mean anything? Alexandre is ex-McK/GS. Why don’t you pm him about the effects of having SciOly National Gold Medalist, Intel Finalist under the Personal section of a resume, and 2350 SAT under education. Also, my HS, like AESDCH, have a strong representation on wall street. Alumni representation -> networking opps->good career. HS does matter.</p>

<p>"there are a ton of people at michigan who have accomplished just as much " - impossible. Reasons why are already stated.</p>

<p>“Congratulations on your 2350 SAT, Number 1! It’s not like you can prepare for the SAT and “sheer will” a good score! You must be really smart!!! Your definition of intelligence is spot on!”</p>

<p>See, if you were smart or studied economics, you wouldn’t make this comment. You can’t look at things bits and pieces. You have to look at things as a whole. Having SAT alone may not mean much. Having SAT, Vale, national awards at the same time tells you that with the same amount of time that other ppl studied so hard for a 2100, I achieved way more. Plus competitive awards tell you that I have outcompeted some of the smartest kids from AESDCH/Troy (the one in CA not the one in Michigan). </p>

<p>“First off, I’m sure you will do fine at Michigan. I disagree with people saying you’re in for a surprise, because frankly, it’s not hard to do well as long as you put in the effort (which it seems you will).”</p>

<p>Thank you. To previous posts that said I’ll be in a surprise, ever thought that you were in a surprise because you came from a less rigorous HS?</p>

<p>"Now, is there any reason to be arrogant about having either of these qualities? The first you have no control over, and are presumably born with. That’s nothing but random chance. The second has more to do with your own thoughts and actions, but is also nothing to be inherently proud of. That’s because your decision to value education over other things in life is rather arbitrary and is no more “noble” than anything else. If studying math and science makes you happy, great. Other people may place more weight on forming relationships or doing other things. "</p>

<p>Look, I’m saying that the people UMich admit have somewhat low stats. Their stats tell future applicants, that a few weeks of studying for SAT should be enough. It’s not that hard to get a 2000. </p>

<p>“PS. Number 1, can you just shut the heck up? Your arrogance makes people sick.”</p>

<p>Your stupidity makes me vomit. </p>

<p>I obviously came off as arrogant. I can live with that. </p>

<p>Alexandre,
“There are, I am sure, many students with 3.5 or lower GPAs and 1900/28 SAT/ACT or lower who are admitted into Michigan”</p>

<p>Don’t you think rolling admission had something to do with that?</p>

202

<p>yosup, your essays should be at least “good”. They cannot be “crap”…they just don’t have to be brilliant or excellent. </p>

<p>In terms of acceptance rates for students who apply in the early period, Michigan does not publish them. I know Michigan rejects very few applicants before April 1, but I am not sure about the percentage of students who are admitted vs those that are deferred in the early period.</p>

203

<p>Dude. Why are you going to Michigan? Why aren’t you attending HYPSM?</p>

<p>If you have that much contempt for the student body, I can’t imagine why you would want to attend Michigan.</p>

204

<p>I cannot wait until people at Michigan humble you. It is that arrogance from people like you, that think you’re better than everyone, that makes people hate Michigan (even though you’re the minority). Get over yourself!</p>

<p>Good luck making friends up there with that kind of attitude.</p>

205

<p>"I cannot wait until people at Michigan humble you. It is that arrogance from people like you, that think you’re better than everyone, that makes people hate Michigan. Get over yourself!</p>

<p>Good luck making friends up there with that kind of attitude. "</p>

<p>Obviously I don’t talk in real life like I do on an anonymous internet forum. I’ll update you when I humble 95% of UMich.</p>

206

<p>“Actually I consider 2100 below to be ■■■■■■■■ as in their thinking ability is inferior.”</p>

<p>Be careful not to judge people’s abilities or intelligence based on one test score. It is unwise to do so. I have known many people who are smarter than myself who did not score nearly as high as I did on the SAt. From my experience, and it is substantial (more so than any study conducted by so-called experts), GPA is a much better indicator of ability than SAT. And one must never confuse academic ability with overall talent or intelligence. Einstein was academically incompetent…as was Thomas Edison. Those guys flunked! Just because a person cannot excel in an academic environment does not automatically mean that they aren’t capable or intelligent. Your use of the words “■■■■■■■■”, “stupid”, “moron” or “idiot” is unduly harsh.</p>

<p>“umich 2010, you think hs achievements doesn’t mean anything? Alexandre is ex-McK/GS. Why don’t you pm him about the effects of having SciOly National Gold Medalist, Intel Finalist under the Personal section of a resume, and 2350 SAT under education. Also, my HS, like AESDCH, have a strong representation on wall street. Alumni representation -> networking opps->good career. HS does matter.”</p>

<p>Actually Number 1, HS accomplishments do not matter much once you get past college admissions. Some companies (like PE or MC firms) ask for SAT as a weed-out criteria, but the cut-off is not as high as you think (usually 2050 ought to do it), and once the candidate makes the cut-off, the SAT is no longer used to as a selection criterion. National Gold Medalist, Olympiad and other awards are meaningless to most recruiters. I can tell you they mean nothing to me. I could care less about any credential than is more than 2 years old. Most of my fellow recruiters at most firms tend to agree with me on that one.</p>

<p>“Look, I’m saying that the people UMich admit have somewhat low stats. Their stats tell future applicants, that a few weeks of studying for SAT should be enough. It’s not that hard to get a 2000.”</p>

<p>It depends on how your mind works…not how smart you are. My own sisters (both of which are smarter than me) could not break the 2000 on their SAT. </p>

<p>“I obviously came off as arrogant. I can live with that.”</p>

<p>Arrogance is not a quality that is admired or respected. Regardless of how talented a person is, humility and tolerance are always expected. Arrogance will cancel out whatever talent a person may have. Confidence (the belief in one’s abilities) is one thing, arrogance (the belief of superiority) is another. </p>

<p>"Alexandre,
“There are, I am sure, many students with 3.5 or lower GPAs and 1900/28 SAT/ACT or lower who are admitted into Michigan”</p>

<p>Don’t you think rolling admission had something to do with that?"</p>

<p>Not really. A school that has 6,000 incoming freshmen is generally going to have some students that are merely “good”. Hell, even a school that has over 3,000 freshmen is going to have that problem. However, in such schools, students of equal ability will take similar classes, so the challenge and intensity levels will not drop.</p>

207

<p>“National Gold Medalist, Olympiad and other awards are meaningless to most recruiters. I can tell you they mean nothing to me. I could care less about any credential than is more than 2 years old. Most of my fellow recruiters at most firms tend to agree with me on that one.”</p>

<p>Not anyone with much experience but I agree. The only real exception here is Math Olympiad to quant funds/top market makers. They really dig that. SATs is usually used as a cut off, not a criteria of judgement. As in, if your SATs is lower than a certain number, you are a moron and we toss your resume in the trash can. So a low (obviously relative) score hurts, but a high score doesnt help.</p>

<p>“Also, my HS, like AESDCH, have a strong representation on wall street. Alumni representation -> networking opps->good career. HS does matter”</p>

<p>I definitely agree with the high school networking thing though. 8 of the Forbes 100 richest people have ties with hotchkiss, either alum, or have kids at hotchkiss. And I am good friends with sons/daughters of 4 of them. Haven’t really been using these relationships yet but somewhere down the road I imagine it would help. But hey, be nicer man… networking doesnt work if people don’t like you. Just because you have something in common doesn’t mean that they are obligated to help.</p>

<p>btw I am so brain dead right now… .just drove 16 hours from Houston to bowling green…another 7 hours to go to get back to ann arbor tomorrow…</p>

208

<p>“National Gold Medalist, Olympiad and other awards are meaningless to most recruiters. I can tell you they mean nothing to me. I could care less about any credential than is more than 2 years old. Most of my fellow recruiters at most firms tend to agree with me on that one.”</p>

<p>Right, but these credentials matter when you’re a freshman/sophomore, which helps you get some good internships, and these freshman/sophomore internships help you in your jr recruiting, and your fresh/soph/jr internships help you during senior full-time recruiting.</p>

<p>“I definitely agree with the high school networking thing though. 8 of the Forbes 100 richest people have ties with hotchkiss, either alum, or have kids at hotchkiss. And I am good friends with sons/daughters of 4 of them. Haven’t really been using these relationships yet but somewhere down the road I imagine it would help. But hey, be nicer man… networking doesnt work if people don’t like you. Just because you have something in common doesn’t mean that they are obligated to help.”</p>

<p>Thanks bearcats, but trust me, I never talk like this in real life. In real life, I’m known to be very humble.</p>

209

<p>Even for internships, I would not usually care much about anything accomplished in High School. The only possible exception is Mathematics Olympiad for quantitative jobs, but even then, one only need an A in advanced Math in college to prove their abilities in Math.</p>

210

<p>also Alexandre and bearcats, since you 2 have more experience with recruiting, what is the usual cutoff for SAT?</p>

<p>“Even for internships, I would not usually care much about anything accomplished in High School. The only possible exception is Mathematics Olympiad for quantitative jobs, but even then, one only need an A in advanced Math in college to prove their abilities in Math.”</p>

<p>But Alexandre, what if you are a freshman? Wouldn’t HS stuff count a little when you look for internships in your freshman year?</p>

211

<p>And bearcats, you’re definitely pursuing quant fund and not ibd/mc/pe/hf?</p>

212

<p>Most companies do not even ask for the SAT. The handful that do generally require either a 1300 or 1400 (our of 1600). But like I said, once your score is over that cut-off, the score is no longer used as a selection criterion.</p>

<p>And high school accomplishments are not requested for internships once you are in college. Companies recruiting internsare more interested in university-level accomplishment. So, your first semester GPA along with your interviewing skills will be the determining factors. Typically, most companies would rather recruit Sophomores. My Freshmen internship was arranged by my father and was unpaid. Generally speaking, companies do not recruit freshmen for internships of note.</p>

213

<p>you’re definitely pursuing quant fund and not ibd/mc/pe/hf? </p>

<p>no…If I am I would not have passed up DE Shaw for a bulge bracket. It is definitely one thing I am pursuing, but I also think it’s too early to specialize and pigeonhole myself yet.</p>

214

<p>"one only need an A in advanced Math in college to prove their abilities in Math. "</p>

<p>unless you are interviewing for jane street capital lol… </p>

<p>they are crazy with their number theory test during round 6 :-p</p>

215

<p>So basically what Alexandre and Bearcats are saying is that once you’re accepted to Michigan and choose to enroll, everyone is on the “same page” for lack of a better word. Basically no one has an advantage over the other?</p>

216

<p>except for larry “page” …wow… i must be really tired…</p>

<p>anyway, yes and no. In one sense everyone start fresh, and your high school acheivement really means little compared to what you do in college.
In another sense, part of how you do in college depends on how much your high school experience prepared you.</p>

217

<p>Thanks for clearing that up for me. </p>

<p>It would be disappointing if a freshman was denied an internship over another student just because of high school achievement.</p>

<p>I also think you are very tired… LOL at the larry “page” comment.</p>

218

<p>"So basically what Alexandre and Bearcats are saying is that once you’re accepted to Michigan and choose to enroll, everyone is on the “same page” for lack of a better word. Basically no one has an advantage over the other? "</p>

<p>No. That’s not what they’re saying. For example, the majority of freshmen at UM won’t get top internships. I, as well as some of the other kids from AESDCH (I know there are at least 5 from E to UM this yr), have access to extremely strong alumni network and have a good chance of landing one. Heck, some of my HS’s top performers already work in BBs. Knowledge of specific areas are also different. For example, I have an expertise in a science area. When I take the class on that area, I probably know a lot more than other students.</p>

219

<p>Would the companies that do require SAT be fine with any SAT you take (for instance if you were to take one again in college)?</p>

220

<p>They don’t ask you how many times you’ve taken it or when you took it. So you can combine your personal best scores from each section if they’re from different sittings.</p>