<p>The team that's heading to a BCS bowl lost in a fluke.</p>
<p>The team that had their .... handed to them by BYU, BC, and Pitt pulled off the upset. Incite.com look out.</p>
<p>~A michigan student in attendance that awful day in South Bend</p>
<p>As for the two Universities-they're nothing alike. Small, rural, and conservative v. huge, (semi)urban, and liberal. If you can't decide which is better for you, you have severe problems makign decisions.</p>
<p>When I'm in South Bend I can't help but think "what do they do here?" I'll concede the ND campus is much prettier, but it just seems so out in the middle of nowhere. You can walk anywhere and everywhere in AA. The staduim, a WONDERFUL downtown and mainstreet, and every major school, dorm, the frats, party houses, ect are a short walk from anywhere on central campus.</p>
<p>Reeses, I return to Ann Arbor whenever I get the chance. At least once a year since I graduated in 1996. In fact, I lived in Ann Arbor from May 2001 until May of 2002. I was last there a month and a half ago...for the Michigan vs Northwestern game. It is my intent to one day live between Paris (December-May) and Ann Arbor (June-November).</p>
<p>Now, for social life, you say that you have met students who prefer Michigan. I am sure the opposite is true as well (Michigan students like Notre Dame). So, rather than post pointless statements, could you give the reasons for why they prefer Michigan?</p>
<p>That is simply not true esrajay. Michigan football players have pretty much similar scores and GPAs to Notre Dame football players. I remember the stats pretty well. Below is a link that discusses the myth that Notre Dame football holds itself to a higher standard. </p>
<p>I could only find the average scores for 1997. They favor Notre Dame by an average of 50 points. But that was about as extreme as it got. Some years, Michigan football players had higher mean SAT scores.</p>
<p>Mean GPAs were also pretty much identical. </p>
<p>Graduation rates are indeed higher for Notre Dame football players. This tells me that either Michigan is a tougher school academically or that Notre Dame gives preferential treatment to its football players.</p>
<p>Finally, the Notre Dame alums who prefered Michigan made several observations that made them prefer Michigan. </p>
<p>1) They thought the students at Michigan were more laid back and approachable.</p>
<p>2) They found the university administration warmer.</p>
<p>3) They felt that school spirit and on-campus activities were more abundant at Michigan </p>
<p>4) They found Ann Arbor infinitely more fun and pleasant than South Bend.</p>
<p>"Graduation rates are indeed higher for Notre Dame football players. This tells me that either Michigan is a tougher school academically or that Notre Dame gives preferential treatment to its football players."</p>
<p>This maybe true, but is it also possible that they are just smarter? I believe that could be a possibility as well, which you just happened to overlook.</p>
<p>Secondly, you probably have heard those statements from 1 or 2 people. But maybe you should hear from a more broad and diverse group. The results you will find will surprise you.</p>
<p>And BTW, no university has more school spirit than Notre Dame. That must have been another statement that was just created to prove your point.</p>
<p>Alexandre, at one time I believed everything you said. Like some students here, they take your statements as facts. Even the tone of your posts makes one think you are absolutely correct. However, your statments are OPINIONS and you should not sway the minds of these people with your very biased beliefs.</p>
<p>...actaully, not to bash my own school, but I don't think ND has anything comparable to our Kines or Nursing schools to serve as their "back door" in and to graduation.</p>
<p>big on campus...............0%.....68%
don't even notice it.......95%......0%
Comment: Kaplan named Michigan as one of 25 hot schools this year (under Greeks with Brains)</p>
<br>
<p>SCHOOL SPIRIT
Notre Dame scores very high, with 99% incredibly proud
Comment: very true - judging from the way my brother behaves every time ND loses a football game 8^).</p>
<p>Michigan (80% incredibly proud; 15% very proud; 6% PROUD IN OUR HEARTS!)
Comments: Told you...the campus is liberal with all opinions represented...</p>
<p>As Weedit pointed out, there is "nothing alike between the two universities -small, rural, and conservative versus huge, (semi)urban, and liberal". It should be easy to decide which one is more 'right' for you.</p>
<p>Esrajay, I repeat, I am not biased. And for your information, Michigan's school spirit is not something I can describe. You just have to see it to believe it. At any rate, I hope you get into all the universities you apply to and that you pick the one that is best suited for you. Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Weedit, I agree that Kinesiology is a "backdoor" to graduation. But Nursing is one of the top 3 or 4 programs in the nation. The students at the program may not be the most gifted, but they are incredibly pationate.</p>
<p>Now you are exaggerating. If you bother to check the U-M website more carefully, you will see that the undergrad out-of-state tuition is only $26K (still one of the most expensive state U). What you quoted was the tuition($39K) for MBA/MAcc, the most expensive grad program at U-M. And if you even bother to look at the next column, you will see that in-state tuition is $34K, not much saving for residence status. The rest of the grad programs are typically around $28K for out-of-state.</p>
<p>You can shop around. But if you are looking for MBA programs of U-M's caliber, you will find that they cost about the same or more.</p>
<p>The undergrad student body at U-M is around 25,000 (not 40,000 as you stated). Most of the State U's are about this size. If you don't like big schools, you shouldn't apply to any public schools.</p>
<p>Btw, if you are applying for MBA/MAcc, why would you care about the size of the student body?</p>
<p>VM, even if what you said were true, what's the problem with paying $40,000 to attend a great university, whether it has 1,000 students or 40,000 students?</p>
<p>Harvard, Columbia, Penn and Cornell all have 20,000 students and their faculties are significantly smaller than Michigan's. USC and NYU have over 30,000 students, and their faculties are also significantly smaller than Michigan's. And yet, all of those schools charge $5,000 - $7,000 more per academic year, and with the exception of Harvard, none of those schools are better than Michigan.</p>
<p>It depends on the state school. Michigan and UVA for example, are better than 99% of private universities. So it is worth paying more to attend them than it is to attend your average private university. I would rather pay more to attend Michigan than pay less to attend Tulane, NYU, USC, George Washington or Boston University. But that is not the reality. In reality, it costs roughly $27,000 to attend Michigan compared to over $30,000 to attend the schools listed above. </p>
<p>But like I said, Michigan is equal to schools like Cornell, Duke, Brown, Penn, Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Rice, Emory, Georgetown etc... so students should be willing to pay as much to attend Michigan as they should to attend the other schools of equal caliber.</p>
<p>I find it difficult to judge such contrasting universities as superior or inferior to one another. In fact, that feat would be hard if you take any of the top, say, 30 or 40 universities in the nation. Harvard has its pros and cons, just like any other top university. </p>
<p>I also think it unfair of you to claim UMich to be a "superior" school, simply because that's an incorrect term to use in such a comparison. Not only that, but it further creates confusion for students selecting colleges to apply to. There simply shouldn't be a pecking order when it comes to universities. Quantifying things such as school spirit, campus life, food, academics, etc. is quite inaccurate. </p>
<p>Notre Dame and Michigan are both highly regarded universities. Unless God blew some sort of enlightening blessing upon you, I don't think you have a right to grade these universities. You back up your opinion with opinions of your friends. I am less than swayed. Have you ever been a student at Notre Dame? Do you think statistics you pull from the web prove your point? One thing that is for certain is that I find the arrogance I see in UMich students to be very silly. It's good to be proud of your school, but to be arrogant is to be foolish.</p>
<p>To the college aspirers:</p>
<p>In the end, I truly think there are many more important things to spend your time considering, rather than what people say on an online forum about possible colleges. I would be equally happy at any top university. I would not be if I spent so much time worrying about my choice that I forgot about what's really important, like the way I live my life. But, that's just me, and I'm just philosophizing. I think, though, that many people on these boards would be better off taking a different perspective!</p>
<p>Terminatorpower, I see nothing wrong with saying one school is superior to another. It is not insulting to the school in the receiving end. Harvard IS superior to Michigan and Michigan IS superior to Notre Dame. </p>
<p>I did not say that one cannot get the best education in Notre Dame. There are more resources availlable at Notre Dame than any student can handle. I also never said Notre Dame wasn't good. In fact, I said Notre Dame was excellent. </p>
<p>I said it above and I repeat, if the OP was torn between the two schools because he loved Notre Dame but knew Michigan was superior, I would have actually recommend he follow his heart and go to Notre Dame. But that was not the case.</p>
<p>Now back to the original point, as far as a university in its totality goes, Michigan is superior to Notre Dame. Michigan has more resources, better departments, a better faculty, a better overall reputation, better ties to industry and is located in a better town. None of those can be questioned. </p>
<p>Of course, personal taste may differ and as such, Notre Dame may be a better fit for an individual than Michigan. I know people who honestly think Outback is better than Peter Luger! Great for them. They can have a meal they truly prefer at a much lower price. But the fact is, Peter Luger steaks are superior to Outback steaks.</p>
<p>In short, I agree that arrogance is foolish...but false-modesty is no better.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I want you to know that I appreciate your sharing of knowledge. Sometimes however I disagree. Still though, I will stop arguing with you and take your advice with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Now on to my question. I want to eventually go into business. How would you rank the universities that would offer the best job opportunities?</p>
<ol>
<li>Ivy League (obviously)</li>
<li>etc.</li>
<li>etc.
(1-10)</li>
</ol>