Minority (AA) Parents in NY

Parents Forum
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<p>Paul,</p>

<p>The process of leaving H.S. and going to college is a tough one for both the parent and the child. Unless your child has a specific need to stay close to home, I would advise allowing her to cast a wide net , including geographically as it will provide her with many more choices come admissions time as compared to staying close in the northeast in a market that is already saturated. </p>

<p>There are literally going to be over a hundred thousand kids graduating out of the NYC publics alone, not counting the surrounding suburbs. I remember my daughter's GC stating that one of the biggest problems with the admissions process in the public school system is that most NYers are not willing to look at other places geographically at schoolos that are really looking for geographic diversity and also offering merit money.</p>

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<p>Brooklyn College also has a program similar to Sophie--a biomed program.
The ACT, to me, was much easier than the SAT. IF your daughter hasn't tried it--she should. I submitted both ACT and SATs scores to prospective schools.</p>

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<p>My D came home today and said the SAT was easy. I thought I would never hear the words "SAT" and "easy" in the same sentence.</p>

<p>Hopefully that is a good sign and her scores will increase.</p>

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<p>"She should also consider casting a wider net of schools."</p>

<p>ADCOMs place a huge emphasis on geographic diversity and/or extra points for attending a school where few graduates of your school attend. The "points" for admission subtracted because of SAT scores will be added for geographic location. </p>

<p>Any particular reason she must remain on East Coast? </p>

<p>That coming from a Mom whose D 1st response when looking for colleges "I am West Coast laid-back and that's where I will begin my search." </p>

<p>New to the 21stC college admissions game and didn't believe I had a say. Now, re-thinking. (LOL)</p>

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<p>What is ADCOM?</p>

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<p>ADCOM = Admission Committees</p>

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<p>May 2005 Scores
M 600
W 600
CR 500</p>

<p>What schools does D have chance of getting in?</p>

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<p>She probably has good chances of getting into most second tier colleges and some colleges in the first tier, particularly those near the bottom of the first tier rankings.</p>

<p>I strongly suggest that she work on her CR score. She can raise it by reading more -- things like excellent newspapers (NY Times, etc., which she can read on websites), good literature, etc. She also can take practice tests via books and the collegeboard website. It would be worth it to invest in tutoring for her, too. Also,SAT scores correlate to the rigor of students' curricula, so she should get into AP English if that's possible.</p>

<p>For college success at the competitive colleges, excellent reading skills are important, so it is vital that she improve her CR.</p>

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<p>What are the bottom top tier and second tier colleges. She has a 90 avg in a NYC public school. She is African American student also. Her prospective major are Bio or Chem and minor in Film (maybe). She has two science fair awards. The rest of her EC's are on the first page. I only make 437K and have no money to pay for school. </p>

<p>Here are some possible school
Penn State
SUNY Stony Brook--safety
University of Rochester
Williams
Wesleyan
Oberlin</p>

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<p>I don't think this student needs to take the SAT I again. With all due respect to the suggestion that the student "work on their CR score", for this upcoming admissions cycle, I think most students will get the benefit of the doubt. Furthermore, her SAT is in line with what her PSAT and test prep practice test score was.</p>

<p>1700 SAT is excellent for this student. Your daughter should be proud. Her focus on testing should now be on the SAT IIs she might need. Some of the schools she is applying to might require 2 or 3, and they should be completed by the Fall.</p>

<p>With all due respect also to people on this board, I would suggest that while some advice here is good, generally the advice on this board is for "mainstream" applicants.</p>

<p>My advice to the parent who is the OP: While the public school your daughter is going to might not have a good counseling staff, you will need to work with them. See if you can make contact with them before the school year is out and see if they might have some suggestions. Also, you should "network". See if you can get the names of student(s) graduating this year who got through the process your daughter is going through. Perhaps there is another AA student like your daughter who might give you some sense of what are realistic targets.</p>

<p>That being said, your list of schools that you just posted does initially feel realistic. I might throw in another highly competetive liberal arts college, another state school, and another private "safety" which might offer scholarship money on top of need based aid.</p>

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<p>PaulChem:
"I only make 437K"</p>

<p>This is a typo, right? :)</p>

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<p>I mean $37K</p>

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<p>D, also black, has only 3.2 gpa (at boarding sch) and SAT 1950; strongest grades and score in math. We've revised our list at least a dozen times! </p>

<p>Also, I see Stony Brook on your list; thought it was much less of a residential community that the other schools (would D be happy at commuter school?)</p>

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<p>"I don't think this student needs to take the SAT I again. With all due respect to the suggestion that the student "work on their CR score", for this upcoming admissions cycle, I think most students will get the benefit of the doubt. Furthermore, her SAT is in line with what her PSAT and test prep practice test score was"</p>

<p>Sure, her SAT is in line with her PSAT. However, her scores are relatively low particularly for the schools she is considering. </p>

<p>In many respects, the difference between the students who score high and those who don't is that those who don't think that doing well on tests like the SAT is a matter of luck. Those who score high have parents who know better and who encourage their kids accordingly.</p>

<p>Almost uniformly, one will find that students who score high on the SAT are taking rigorous courses like APs and IBs. Many also are taking the time to study for the test. </p>

<p>They use prep books, tutors, internet sites, and practice on thier own.</p>

<p>This particularly is true of the kids who are Asian and Jewish. Their parents do things like mandate an hour a day of study for the SAT over the summer, and their parents also find ways of arranging tutoring for them. </p>

<p>If the parents are short of funds, they'll arrange a lower price by having the kids tutored in a group.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, if the daughter is considering majoring in something like chemistry, she needs to take things like AP chemistry, AP calculus and to continue to work on improving her math score.</p>

<p>If she's serious about film, she needs to work on improving her writing score, and she also needs to read a great deal of good literature. Being a film major is not just about working cameras. One needs a good sense of story, and one needs to write well.</p>

<p>Incidentally, I am black, and my sons SAT scores ranged from 1410 (old sat) to a 2190 (new one). Their "secrets" are the things that I mentioned here: taking AP/IB courses, studying for the SAT (including private and group tutoring and using prep books), reading good literature, getting copies of their answer sheets and looking them over to find out what they did wrong. </p>

<p>By doing these things, S raised his score 130 points over the new SAT score that his junior year PSAT predicted.</p>

<p>To figure out your D's odds of admission, I suggest that you look at something like the US News college guide that gives the 25th-75th score ranges for colleges. My thoughts are that right now, your D's scores are far out of range for Williams, which is one of the most difficult colleges in the country to gain acceptance to.</p>

<p>I am guessing that Wesleyan and Oberlin, too, would be major reaches for her. However, look at US News, and also look at their college ranking system. You can get the guide for about $5 at most newstands and bookstores.</p>

<p>Some info about colleges also is on the US News website.</p>

<p>Your D's coming from a low income household can help her get into some competitive colleges, but IMO, she still needs to raise her scores. Typically the lowest scores that the most select colleges will take are 600 on any section of the SAT. When it comes to places like Williams, very few students are taken with scores that low. They have to also demonstrate very clear evidence that they have the work ethic to graduate from a tough college, where they'd academically enter as one of the weakest students in the class.</p>

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<p>My D wants to go away badly. She says we put too much stress on her.</p>

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<p>If she thinks you put too much stress on her than she should not consider going to a college like Oberlin, Wesleyan or Williams because she'd enter as a weak student and would have to work very hard to catch up.</p>

<p>Has she considered the historically black colleges? They have very nurturing environments, and your daughter might find that very helpful.</p>

<p>Her scores are low for some HBCUs such as Spelman, Florida A&M and Howard, but Bowie State in Maryland might be a good match for her. It's relatively small, is strong in the sciences, has a dynamic, visionary president, and could be a place where she could flourish.</p>

<p>It is in a small community about 1/2 hour drive from Washington, D.C.</p>

<p>Another place she could consider is University of Maryland-Baltimore County. It is a mainstream college with a dynamic black male president. He is doing one of the best jobs in the country preparing black students in the sciences.</p>

<p>Another option is Xavier College in New Orleans, the only historically black college that is Catholic. It is the top college in the country in terms of sending black students to med school.</p>

<p>I think that your D's scores would get her into these schools, and she could get lots of encouragement and good instruction that could help her reach her potential in the sciences. </p>

<p>While she's considering film, unless she's doing something right now in the field -- writing scripts, taking a film class in h.s., film school is pie in the sky. Film schools are very hard to gain entrance to. Entrance is based on one's portfolio of films or scripts. If she's truly interested in film, it might be something for her to consider for grad school.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, most students change their minds about prospective majors several times, so I don't suggest that she select her college based on an unusual major.</p>

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<p>One last thing: Check carefully the financial aid pages of colleges because many will not be able to offer you the kind of financial aid that your daughter will need. Notice, too, the kind of aid that the colleges offer because some may offer financial aid that includes $20,000 a year in loans -- and that definitely is not worth taking. </p>

<p>In addition, the fact that she will require major aid will lower her chances of admission at some colleges. </p>

<p>Since you live in NYS, it may be that your D's best chances of going to an affordable college would be through the NY State system.</p>

<p>I am not sure that Stony Brook would be a safety. Check their SAT score ranges. Traditionally it has been one of the harder NY State public universities to gain admittance to. Many others were easier.</p>

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<p>She does not want to attend a HBCU. She wants a diverse college since thats what the real world is all about.</p>

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<p>Hi Paul,</p>

<p>as a parent who was in your position 2 years ago I have to say that williams is going to be a major reach for your child even being AA as a tip factor. </p>

<p>The pool of AA aplicants are now more competitive. (I would suggest looking up post by King, Devil May Cry, KB54010, Jblackboy05) who are some of the young african american men who went through the process this year (and young AA men are in more demand than young AA women because they attend colleges in higher numbers)</p>

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<p>There are schools that don't require SATs that would likely LOVE to have her, and pay for the chance - Bard (similar to Oberlin but closer to NYC, artsy, with lots of students interested in film, but which is heavily recruiting students in the sciences, and providing scholarships for that purpose), Mount Holyoke (very, very strong in biology and chemistry), Bowdoin (working very hard to recruit minority students), Middlebury (a virtual Williams clone, though better in some areas including foreign languages). And once you go beyond the northeast, opportunities really open up. And some schools, such as Smith, are heavily discounting SAT scores.</p>

<p>Here's info on Bard's film program:</p>

<p><a href="http://inside.bard.edu/film_elect/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://inside.bard.edu/film_elect/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>