Minority (AA) Parents in NY

<p>Paulchem:
What is her public high school like? What percentage of students go to college? What's your D's gpa and class rank?</p>

<p>Also check out the colleges in Loren Pope's book and website "Colleges that change lives." Some might be great fits for her, and also may give her good financial aid.</p>

<p>Her GPa is 92. She is in the honor program "Gateway Institute for pre College Education Program. She does not know her rank until September. Her school is split up into Gateway Program, NUrsing ,and Dental assistant.</p>

<p>I agree with Mini the choices he gave. I would also suggest looking into Oxford College at Emory (she could would get an automatic transfer into Emory after 2 years)<br>
Definitely check out the sat optional schools listed on fairtest.org</p>

<p>Holy Cross (just eliminated the SAt)
Connecticut College (not need blind, but are really looking to add diversity, now SAT optional)
Goucher
Muhlenberg
Franklin & Marshall</p>

<p>Several of the colleges that Sybbie mentioned are described in "Colleges that change lives," so check out the book and the site.</p>

<p>Responding to this comment:</p>

<p>"Sure, her SAT is in line with her PSAT. However, her scores are relatively low particularly for the schools she is considering. In many respects, the difference between the students who score high and those who don't is that those who don't think that doing well on tests like the SAT is a matter of luck. Those who score high have parents who know better and who encourage their kids accordingly."</p>

<p>I think thats an extreme overgeneralization.</p>

<p>The reality is that, even with preparation, most students are not going to improve their test scores much beyond their expected ability that has been developed over an entire educational career. </p>

<p>I am not suggesting this student not retake the SAT I because I think a higher score would be "luck". Its quite evident this student already HAS improved based on her PSAT (in fact, the improvement was very inline with the type of improvement Northstarmom noted in her own child, so there is really no dispute here). </p>

<p>Furthermore, she only will have one SAT II under her belt by the end of this academic year. Accordingly, I continue to think the SAT II is where this student should be putting her efford. I don't think this student will score much above 1700, and not because preparing wouldn't improve her score, but the time would be better invested in the SAT II scores which will be just as crucial, if not more crucial, than the SAT Is. Even if this student improved 30 or 40 points total, it wouldn't make much of a difference in the bigger picture.</p>

<p>The second comment to address:</p>

<p>"Almost uniformly, one will find that students who score high on the SAT are taking rigorous courses like APs and IBs. Many also are taking the time to study for the test. They use prep books, tutors, internet sites, and practice on thier own. This particularly is true of the kids who are Asian and Jewish. Their parents do things like mandate an hour a day of study for the SAT over the summer, and their parents also find ways of arranging tutoring for them. "</p>

<p>Putting aside the ugly racial stereotyping of jews and asians, there is still a constructive comment that can be made: I think the problem is that the cause-and-effect isn't established here. Northstarmom would suggest that by taking these types of courses, the student does better. Possibly a student is more motivated when taking AP courses. However, its not that taking these type of courses improves SAT I scores. They don't . Rather, students who perform well acadmically score higher on these types of exams. Taking an AP class in and of itself doesn't change an SAT I score (an SAT II maybe, since that is a subject based exam).</p>

<p>Incidentally, most parents will agree that if a student doesn't want success badly enough, they won't get it. Its sad how many racists out there still have this stereotype of jewish and asian parents as slavedrivers.</p>

<p>If it is at all financially feasible, I would recommend not putting ANY schools on the form, but to wait until later after the scores are known. That way, if she also takes the ACT (which she SHOULD...science-minded students tend to do better on ACT then SAT) and does well, she can submit those scores without submitting her SAT. She can selectively suppress scores on the ACT, but cannot on the SAT. All schools get all SAT's she ever took.</p>

<p>I just sent request forms for all the schools mentioned. She is really stressed out with school. She is taking SAT 2 in Math 2 C. Should she be taking it if taking MATH B regents in june (NYC Students).</p>

<p>Thank you for all the advice</p>

<p>Paul,</p>

<p>Even if you have to pay the late fee, I agree with quiltguru that D should definitely take the June ACT exam.</p>

<p>What about the money I paid for the SAT 2?
how do I apply to the ACT? She needs to get a review book then</p>

<p>Massguy:
I find your comments (#66) strange and counterintuitive. First, preparation for anything will generally yield a better result. My daughter increased her total SAT-I score by 110 points by doing practice tests. She found the SAT-IIs to be a piece of cake, by comparison. Yes, we "mandated" the additional prep, as we also "mandated" certain study habits and other behavior.....and we're not even Jewish or Asian! How in the world can holding one's children to certain standards and work ethic be considered "ugly racial stereotyping" or racist? Or "slave-driving?" Pretty inflammatory language, IMO.</p>

<p>Go to ACT.org and apply on line. You can get a review book through amazon.com. If at all possible, the best preparation is to TAKE a practice ACT under testing conditions. Set a timer. Pretend its for real. Then score it. Taking the test more than once is one of the strongest predictors for higher scores. She'll also have ballpark idea what to expect from her scores when they come. DEFINITELY explore this for your strong science/math student.</p>

<p>i missed the deadline for late registration for the June ACT. I have to wait until the September tests</p>

<p>driver: I was responding to the point raised in post #54 which is , without a doubt, racist in tone and inflammatory in and of itself: </p>

<p>"This particularly is true of the kids who are Asian and Jewish. Their parents do things like mandate an hour a day of study for the SAT over the summer, and their parents also find ways of arranging tutoring for them."</p>

<p>Encouraging ones' child to succeed is not the racial stereotyping, nor is mandating it. What <em>is</em> racial stereotyping is suggesting, as northstarmom does, that such a standard is one that is generally set by "jews and asians" .</p>

<p>Its as offensive as saying that the reason a black child isn't performing well on the writing exam is that the culture doesn't encourage the speaking of proper english like those caucasians in the midwest do.</p>

<p>There was no reason for northstarmom to let her racism creep into this discussion. Hardly appropiate for a regular poster as she is.</p>

<p>There September test will not be given in NYS. The next test date will be October 22 (which will be too late if you are looking at any schools for ED/ or EA)</p>

<p>Since the deadline just past on friday, I would call them to find out if you can late register on the phone. Their # is 319-337-1270 </p>

<p>I know that you can do the SAT as a walk-in on the day of the exam , the ACT may have the same provision.</p>

<p>OK, Massguy, I guess I'm confused as to who the aggrieved parties are with respect to Northstarmom's alleged "racism." Was she, in your opinion, dissing the "Jews and Asians" in pointing out that those groups vastly outperform other groups academically, and what exactly they might be doing right? Or was she dissing those of us from other groups by pointing out our shortcomings relative to those two generally successful groups? Your post #66 indicates the former, your post #74 suggests the latter. Which is it? Or did you just mis-speak, and need to apologize to NSM for mistakenly accusing her of racism?</p>

<p>""This particularly is true of the kids who are Asian and Jewish. Their parents do things like mandate an hour a day of study for the SAT over the summer, and their parents also find ways of arranging tutoring for them."</p>

<p>Encouraging ones' child to succeed is not the racial stereotyping, nor is mandating it. What <em>is</em> racial stereotyping is suggesting, as northstarmom does, that such a standard is one that is generally set by "jews and asians" ."</p>

<p>There's nothing racist about this. Many cultures and the Jewish culture highly value education and learning. Scholars, for instance, in preCommunist China were among the most esteemed categories of people.</p>

<p>In this country, children of immigrant Koreans and Chinese routinely go to weekly academic programs in which they learn Chinese/Korean plus do things such as study for the SAT. The children also are encouraged by their families to form study groups and to share tips about how to do well in their classes.</p>

<p>This is not the kind of thing that most people in this country teach their kids to do because Americans have traditionally valued independence, including going it alone when doing academic things. Most Americans also view with revulsion the idea of sending kids to extra schooling on the weekend. "Let kids be kids," is how most Americans feel about such things.</p>

<p>Jews who are practicing Jews typically send their kids to Hebrew school, where the kids learn Hebrew, history, and other things so as to prepare for their Bar Mitzvas. It's another culture in which scholars are revered. Just think about the difference between that and mainstream culture in which people who study a lot are regarded as nerds.</p>

<p>If you check message boards designed for specific races -- such as the Asian and African American communities that AOL has -- you'll see a lot of differences between the subjects that are discussed.</p>

<p>There's a lot of discussion about educational issues on the Asian board. The African American communities boards are more like the mainstream boards -- lots more talk about things like entertainment than education.</p>

<p>I have friends from a variety of cultures, and when I see things that are impressive, I ask my friends what they do. This is how I learned about things like Chinese School, and about how Asian kids are encouraged to participate in study groups and to examine their tests to see what they got wrong so they know how to improve. (Most mainstream American kids just look at the test grades!)</p>

<p>I also learned that many Asian/Jewish/immigrant African and Caribbean kids are doing some structured academic study over the summer under their parents' direction. Certainly the kids get some free time, but they still do some academics, which keeps them from forgetting as much of their last year's academics over the summer as other kids are likely to do.</p>

<p>"Its as offensive as saying that the reason a black child isn't performing well on the writing exam is that the culture doesn't encourage the speaking of proper english like those caucasians in the midwest do."</p>

<p>Well, I know that the African American culture doesn't encourage the speaking of proper English as much as that is encouraged in the mainstream culture.</p>

<p>There are many black people who seem to think it detracts from a black child's racial identity to teach the child to speak or write standard English.</p>

<p>When I taught college, I had many intelligent black students who did things like drop the "s" and "ed" endings by writing things like "He work for Mr. Smith" or "Yesterday, he walk to school." These were hard working students who were eager to learn. Some of them were gifted writers and had professional, college educated parents.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, their previous teachers apparently had mistakenly thought it was racist to expect black kids to learn standard English. That's why such students' verbal SAT scores were far lower than one would have expected.</p>

<p>Amen, Northstarmom. It's not racist to observe that different cultures promote different approaches to education, and that some immigrant groups have figured out remarkably effective strategies for helping their kids advance academically. If we want to help the students who are getting left behind, we need to figure out what the successful groups are doing right and whether there's a way to translate their approach to cultures that don't have a thousand-year academic tradition to build on. We can't just pretend that culture is irrelevant and that the prevalence of Jewish and Asian kids at the top of the academic ladder is some kind of cosmic coincidence (or worse, the result of genetic destiny).</p>

<p>i'm not sure where all these comments are coming from. I just want to know if I can get my money back for the SAT 2 in jUne. i'll call Act tommorrow and see If i can register now.</p>