MIT vs. Brandeis? Three days to choose between apples and oranges.

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hey guys!</p>

<p>I have to commit to college in the next few days, but I'm so conflicted.
My choices are MIT (accepted EA) and Brandeis (accepted into Lerman-Neubauer Fellowship Program and also receiving a 75% tuition break)</p>

<p>I want to be premed, and neither school is particularly known for their premed classes or advising. It may be a wash-- the school's acceptance rates to med school are similar, both schools have reports of grade deflation, and neither school has the IV league connections. (MIT has connections, but mostly in engineering and research related fields.)</p>

<p>A big concern about MIT is that it's very challenging to keep up a high GPA... as premed, I worry about this. </p>

<p>My concern with Brandeis is that it's more limited. I almost feel like I could outgrow the place.
I also have a very fuzzy picture of the student body. Unlike MIT, which has a very obvious campus culture, Brandeis is harder to read. I haven't got a sense of who chooses Brandeis and why... aside from those interested in Judaic studies, Jewish culture, or social justice.
I also don't know how the Lerman Neubauer thing should factor into my decision.</p>

<p>Finally. The last issue of concern: can I pass up such a large tuition break and not be an idiot? If I want to go to med school, should I save money on my undergrad education, or should I sacrifice money for prestige? </p>

<p>Now some positives:
I love the MIT nerd factor. I visited campus and people actually thought my math jokes were funny. This is a plus. I'm not a geek or a freak or anything, but I do have a major nerdy side which was comfortable to come out of hiding when visiting MIT. And there's an intensity in everyone which I liked (but don't confuse intense personalities with intense schedules and lives. THAT is something I don't like about MIT. I want to be able to do my own thing without spreading myself to thin, and stay focused. But MIT culture is to take 8 classes a term and do every extracurricular there is. While still pledging to a frat. And pulling all nighters every few days.)</p>

<p>Brandeis felt...comfortable. I bet I could live simply but be able to find ways to stand out there. In a more close environment, I could better reach the opportunities around-- even if they are fewer than the opportunities at MIT.
The low key nature of the place seems kind of nice, but I just don't know if it's too much so. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that I "liked" MIT better... but I feel really silly passing up Brandeis. Brandeis seems like the sensible, smart choice. </p>

<p>My brain says go to Brandeis.
My heart says go to MIT.
(As a logic nerd, I'm not ready to make a decision based on emotion. But as a human, I'm not ready to ignore my gut.)</p>

<p>Any thoughts?
I welcome any comments, as long as they don't fit under the following three topics:
-Why this choice is silly, since MIT is one of the best schools in the country and Brandeis is... not.
-Why this choice is silly, since Brandeis is offering me a lot of money and MIT isn't.
-Why this choice is silly since the schools are polar opposites... and that there's no way I fit both schools.</p>

2

<p>Really it just depends on your family’s financial situation. 75% tuition is hard to pass up but I think you’re also under rating MIT for pre-med. In my opinion there’s a huge difference between MIT and Brandeis premed. As someone who lives within 25 minutes of Brandeis and has been there for concerts and parties before, the campus seems a little bit boring in comparison to others. Not necessarily saying that there isn’t anything to do but nothing ever stood out for me in terms of campus culture, personality etc. I don’t know why but I’ve always felt that way. There’s a lot of super liberal hipsters as well. Just my observations. I never really looked into MIT too much although I’ve been to the campus many times for meets. I wouldn’t fit in too well and wouldn’t get in anyways. But if you like that kinda stuff and embrace that nerd culture, I couldn’t see a better fit.</p>

3

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<p>This is wrong. MIT is the best place for premed. Medical school acceptance rate is 85-90%.
See here:
[Preprofessional</a> Stats - MIT Careers Office](<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html]Preprofessional”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html)
[Medical</a> School Admissions Criteria - MIT Careers Office](<a href=“http://www.mit.edu/~career/preprof/medadmissions.html]Medical”>http://www.mit.edu/~career/preprof/medadmissions.html)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/1117990-biomedical-engineering-mit-jhu-stanford-tufts-pton.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/1117990-biomedical-engineering-mit-jhu-stanford-tufts-pton.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Wrong again. Average MIT students take 4-5 classes per term. Some people take more but they can easily drop near the end of the term without penalty.</p>

4

<p>Contrary to your assertion MIT is actually an excellent place for premeds. Our D is just graduating from MIT and was admitted into several medical schools. </p>

<p>-The acceptance rate to medical school at MIT hovers between 85% and 95% well above the 75% rate at Brandeis. This year, all the premeds in our D’s department (neuroscience) were admitted to at least one medical school. I believe the same was true in the biology department. There is absolutely no weeding out at MIT as premed requirements are all introductory level science classes, hardly challenging by MIT standards. The environment is totally non-competitive with no ranking or Latin honors. </p>

<p>-MIT has excellent acceptance into top medical schools. MIT has a joint program with Harvard Medical School (HST) and even offers a joint MD/PhD with HMS. A number of our D’s professors in the neuroscience department were also on the HMS faculty and gave her recommendations for her application to medical school. </p>

<p>Some other misconceptions:
-Nobody at MIT takes 8 classes per semester. The maximum allowed is is 4 per semester during the first year and taking more than 3 science classes per semester is not recommended for anyone. </p>

<p>-If you stick to a normal schedule (4 classes per semester) there is no reason why you can’t maintain a reasonable GPA. You can take classes as exploratory if you think there is a risk you will not do well and drop the course after the final with no record on the transcript. Drop dates are also very late in the semester so there are very few surprises. Medical schools also DO take into account the grade deflation at MIT. </p>

<p>-There is really no preferred premed track at MIT so you pick any major you want. You will complete all your premed requirements by the end of sophomore year at the latest and can even be done by freshman year, as they essentially are part of the general institute requirements (GIRs). You could be a biology, economics or chemical engineering major and the premed preparation will have no impact on the rest of your schedule. </p>

<p>-There is excellent premed advising and a number of the advisors are on the HMS faculty. There is also great volunteering and shadowing opportunities at Mass General and the Brigham and Women’s hospitals. </p>

<p>-Every student is involved in research which is especially helpful with admission to the most selective medical schools or if you want to pursue an MD/PhD. </p>

<p>In addition to a clear advantage for premeds, MIT also offers you some of the best options in the eventuality you change your mind and decide to pursue another career path whether it is graduate studies or entering the workforce. Any difference is tuition cost will be recovered in just a few years upon graduation. The ROI of an MIT education is among the highest of any school. Unless the COA puts an enormous stress on your family’s finances, there is simply no contest.</p>

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<p>Med school is ridiculously expensive. Run your aid packages for both places through this handy calculator from our friends at FinAid.org, and see what you think: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)</p>

<p>There are a number of different ways to calculate med school admission success rates. If might be helpful for you to read through some of the threads here: [Pre-Med</a> & Medical School - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-medical-school/]Pre-Med”>Pre-Med & Medical School - College Confidential Forums)</p>

6

<p>Sorry, but I have to respond using one of the verboten categories: go to MIT. It is ridiculous to pass up that opportunity for Brandeis, given your interests.</p>

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<p>MIT is undoubtedly the premier technology university, but Brandeis offers a true “liberal arts university” experience in an intimate setting that would not be available at MIT. Brandeis is a small liberal arts college functioning within a world-class research university. It’s a trick to pull that off, but they do, and the undergraduates benefit from that special combination.</p>

<p>As for pre-med, its acceptance rates are excellent (and the early acceptance program with Tufts Med is a big plus).</p>

<p>Take a look at this: [Find</a> Out What?s Cooking in the Chemistry Lab | Brandeis University](<a href=“BrandeisNOW”>BrandeisNOW)</p>

<p>If you haven’t seen this piece, including the video, it may be helpful to you in understanding the excellent undergraduate research opportunities that are available at Brandeis. These are the foundation of both its exceptional med school acceptance rate and excellent rates of admission to top doctoral degree programs. One great example is Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry, Rod MacKinnon who began his research career as an undergrad at Brandeis, went on to med school and then returned to Brandeis for post-doc studies. Another good example of the exceptional science teaching/research environment at Brandeis is Biochem Professor, Greg Petsko who left MIT to come to Brandeis to conduct his ground-breaking research and teach undergrads in a nuturing environment. All of this is possible because of Brandeis’ special position as a top tier research university combined with a small liberal arts college. Oh yes, the brand new Science Center is fantastic as well. Finally BTW, here’s a brief article describing the impressive ranking of Brandeis’ own doctoral programs (many among the best in the nation): </p>

<p>[Brandeis</a> doctoral programs rate high in national survey | BrandeisNOW](<a href=“http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2010/november/nationalresearchcouncil.html]Brandeis”>Brandeis doctoral programs rate high in national survey | BrandeisNOW)</p>

<p>This is very relevant to undergraduates because, at Brandeis, undergrads and grad students both work side-by-side with the same professors.</p>

<p>You say that you’re not clear on Brandeis’ culture but suspect that it’s related to social justice and somehow is a “Jewish Culture.” In fact social justice is a very robust part of the campus culture. But the campus is completely secular the and culture truly is diverse with a strong international flavor (116 countries and 17 different religions represented; about 40% identify as Jewish among the 5000 undergrads and grads–similar to, say, Barnard or, perhaps, even MIT–so not an overt “Jewish culture”). </p>

<p>The culture of Brandeis, in my opinion, grows out of its intimate, “research college” structure. Brandeis truly is an amazing school. Its small student body- the smallest I believe (about 800 in a class) of any top tier national research university–is matched with high-powered professors who actually teach in small classes. So, the research opportunities are tremendous. Plus, as you know it’s very close to Boston, the world’s greatest college town, but on its own suburban campus with a cohesive community–really the best of both worlds.</p>

<p>Its intellectual environment is comparable in many ways to its University Athletic Association sister school, U Chicago (perhaps no coincidence that the President of U Chicago is a Brandeis alum). Yet its students are down-to-earth, friendly and non-competitive with one another. </p>

<p>Despite its small size and relative youth, Brandeis’ alumni are very distinguished–to name just a few: in the sciences, in addition to Rod Mackinnon, Fields Medal winning physicist Edward Witten (often called “Einstein’s successor”); in journalism and literature, 3-time Pulitzer Prize winner Tom Friedman of the NY Times, The Earth is Flat etc. and Mitch Albom of Tuesday’s with Morrie (about his Brandeis professor); in the performing arts, the Creators/Producers of Friends and actress Debra Messing; and in business, Robert FX Sillerman (billionaire businessman–currently owner of American Idol and Graceland), Jeff Lurie, billionaire owner of the Philadelphia Eagles and Christy Hefner, former CEO of Playboy). </p>

<p>On the question of whether Brandeis is the right fit for you, I believe the kind of person who would feel comfortable at Brandeis is an intellectual and/or creative sort who is friendly and comfortable with himself or herself and not competitive or pretentious. Intellectual but down-to-earth and friendly I think is an apt description of the student body. Unlike some preppy place or frat-oriented environments where social interraction is based on the “exclusivity” of the frat system, Brandeis has a welcoming, relatively-nonjudgmental environment–yet there are some off-campus frats for those who like what they have to offer. There is no pressure to party, but parties are there if you want them. Often social interaction centers around the numerous clubs and other terrific extracuriculars like music and theater–if you’re into theater/music/art, there’s a ton of high quality opportunities and it’s a very exciting place to be.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>I have one question for you; Can you afford MIT without too much hardship? If your answer is yes, follow your heart, take MIT and never look back. For staters, MIT is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If you can afford it, you will regret not going there. Secondly, NOBODY can truly say at 17 whether or not they want to be a doctor. The fact is, 50% of the 17 year olds I knew who “always wanted to be doctors” changed their minds in college. If you are premed, I do not think one school will open more doors than the other, but if you change your mind, MIT will definitely present you with more opportunities.</p>

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<p>I interpret MIT’s admission stats to med school a LOT differently than the other posters. </p>

<p>What the numbers say to me is that one HAS to have a higher-than-national-average gpa to obtain acceptance to med school. MIT’s accepted mean gpa is a 3.73 which is HIGHER than the national average. MIT’s accepted mcat is a 35, which is HIGHER than the national average of 31. And remember, MIT has students from every state, so they have their state med schools as a stats “safety.” Yes, one can speculate all day why the numbers are in fact higher, but they are higher just the same.</p>

<p>If MIT was such a good place for premed and received any love from med school adcoms for (arguably) being the world’s best eng/tech/science college, its numbers would be lower than average, not higher.</p>

<p>If you do choose MIT, definitely take advantage of cross-regisration at that grade-inflated school up the street. :)</p>

10

<p>Try MIT for one year and see what happens. If you don’t like it and want to leave, there will be a ton of schools who would be willing to accept you, Brandeis included. I think grades are kind of pass/fail for the first semester or something like that so if you do kind of badly your first year, it won’t completely ruin your chances of leaving.</p>

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<p>I know both schools pretty well and the fact is that you will get an excellent education at either. MIT is clearly the more selective institution and carries a greater “wow” factor, for whatever that is worth (and, if you are going into medicine, its not worth much; no rational person selects their doctor on the basis of where they went to college). MIT is also clearly a more challenging environment–which has both positive and negative aspects which you seem to appreciate. Basically, I would advise that, if your family can easily afford to send you to MIT, then that is an opportunity that would be hard to turn down. But if it would stretch the family’s finances to do so, than Brandeis is more than just a good alternative, it is a great one. Brandeis has a strong pre-med program and does very well in medical school placement (although I would agree that a MIT graduate with comparable grades and test scores would have a leg up over a Brandeis grad). The thing is that medical school is very expensive and while loans are readily available, grants are not. So if going to MIT is a financial stretch, I think you are better off going to Brandeis and saving the difference for medical school.</p>

<p>I agree with Alexandre that many students change their mind about becoming physicians during college, but my above advice wouldn’t change. MIT is generally a stronger school, particularly in the sciences, engineering and economics (Brandeis doesn’t even have engineering) but 75% is a lot of money for most of us. And Brandeis is strong in the sciences and economics as well, just not as strong. And Brandeis is arguably a better balanced university, with students spread pretty evenly between the fine arts, humanities, sciences and social sciences. But if you are in the eviable position of the money not being a deciding factor, go to MIT. If not, go to Brandeis.</p>

12

<p>FYI, on dealing with the brand name/prestige issue, you might find interesting this thread involving a student who turned down Harvard to go to Brandeis. Your situations are different (for one, the price differential wasn’t significant) but, at least, analagous. In her case, she chose the better fit over the bigger brand name.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/704360-turning-down-harvard-go-brandeis-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/704360-turning-down-harvard-go-brandeis-4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>If the money is a big issue, that’s needs to be more of a priority. But if it’s not I’d say go MIT. You’re clearly the most excited about it, and it sounds like a perfect fit for you. You don’t want “comfortable” to turn into “underwhelming”… although I’m sure you could find plenty of challenges and opportunities at Brandeis. Still, it seems like you’d be able to handle (and even enjoy) the intense academic lifestyle at MIT (not like you can’t tone it down with the courseload/ECs/partying a bit if you really wanted to).</p>

14

<p>Hey everyone!
You guys gave some very helpful advice.</p>

<p>I revisited Brandeis twice over the weekend and gave it a fairer look than I’d given before. While there, my gut started to tell me that Brandeis was the right school. Brandeis fits me pretty well-- I was scared to acknowledge it before, and scared to turn down MIT.</p>

<p>So, I have done just that: I’ve chosen Brandeis. And turned down MIT.</p>

<p>It was a very hard decision to make, and I know that a lot of people aren’t going to understand it. But I’m sticking by it, and I think it’s the right choice for me. MIT isn’t for everyone.</p>

<p>I hope that anyone in a similar situation might find this thread or the Harvard v Brandeis thread… and turn to it for some support.</p>

<p>[I actually emailed the girl from the Harvard v Brandeis thread, and asked her if she was still happy with her decision, two years later. She said yes, yes, and even more yes. Hearing that made it just a tad easier to click that Enroll at Brandeis button. (Future pre-frosh, feel free to email me if you’re in a similar pickle)] </p>

<p>There are benefits in choosing either school, and for me, Brandeis seemed to have more of what I want and need in a college.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

15

<p>To anyone who may or may not be ■■■■■■■■ this thread:
I made the RIGHT choice. Feel free to contact me to ask me about it. :wink:
I’m very excited! :D</p>

16

<p>Good for you Smilesocks16! Love to hear that someone feels they carefully considered two options and feels like they made the right choice and is not agonizing with Buyer’s remorse. I’m pleasantly surprised this thread spent so much time comparing the schools and opportunities. More typical CC threads like this, involving a high scholarship to a school not nearly as prominent as Brandeis, usually are heavily weighted with the sentiment that you are a fool to consider paying for college when you can get scholarship dollars as a pre-med. Best of luck to you.</p>

17

<p>Congratulations on a tough decision. I’m sure that your ability to see past the conventional wisdom into what’s right for <em>you</em> will serve you well in your life. :)</p>

18

<p>Thanks yalegradanddad and geekmom63!</p>