More reality/upset son

Parents Forum
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<p>I think the problem with a paid private counselor is that her job (for her own “stats” to show to future clients) is to get you into “first choice”. She will not be willing to have a “first choice” that is a reach school.</p>

<p>On the other hand, it probably was good for your son in a long run to hear her opinion. Otherwise, he could end up with no acceptances next April.</p>

<p>Some flagship publics have a “formula” for admissions (I know that U of MO-Colubmia does). Those are the schools where his relatively high scores will give him the biggest boost, and the outcome is relatively predictable. If he is looking for schools like UMich, UNC, UVA, Berkley - it will be very hard for OOS with his stats…</p>

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<p>readytoroll: as one who happens to be associated with an “amazing” college counselor, I really think that the issue here was in the way this was approached…In my opinion, and from what I have experienced, college counselors find the strengths in a student’s application (whatever those might be) and create a viable list of safeties, matches and reaches without discouraging students…that being said, your counselor is not incorrect in assuming that the lack of AP’s will influence admissions (as stated in an earlier thread, we are experiencing the same issues with my daughter), but to approach your son, the first time meeting him?, with negativity is not going to get him on the positive road needed to get through this process…</p>

<p>You may need to find another person for him to work with…</p>

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<p>Take a look at some of the following publics (listed in order of their US News ranking):</p>

<p>Ohio State, Purdue, U Iowa, Michigan State, Indiana U, U Alabama</p>

<p>Your son is right about at Ohio State’s 75th percentile SAT, and their Common Data Set lists average high school GPA as “not required.” Not sure what that means. They DO look at class rank, though.
<a href=“http://oaa.osu.edu/irp/publisher_surveys/08Survey_Main_CDS.pdf[/url]”>http://oaa.osu.edu/irp/publisher_surveys/08Survey_Main_CDS.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The top publics may be out of reach, but your son still may have some really good options.</p>

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<p>First off, your son may be able to get into those AP courses. In many states, the public schools MUST put your child in the class you choose, even if it’s against the teacher’s recommendation (so those “requirements” that you have an A to get into AP aren’t legally binding). Go to the principal and tell (don’t ask) him/her that your son needs to be in APs, and use the test scores to justify that. Be firm, polite, and don’t take no for an answer.</p>

<p>You may then see your son’s grades go up (my son did much better in APs than in regular courses–less bored). But if not, at least he’ll demonstrate a good solid B in higher-level courses.</p>

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<p>RtR, have you met with the school counselor yet and if not I think that is a good step. That person can give you more contextual predictions on how kids with similar stats from your school did in college. If your school has naviance, use it. Also what rank is that 3.2 which I also assume is unweighted? With the high bar to get into honors/APs, your son will not get the most rigorous designation, but see how he stands in relation to his class. Coming from a school like this with restrictions on the high level courses will be a disadvantage at numbers driven publics. But I think it is important to get the perspective from the GC before going forward.</p>

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<p>I have such mixed feelings as I read this. Even with his somewhat low grades, I think he should apply to a few of his dream schools just in case. Another possibility is going to a school that is a feeder for the main campus of a big university. I believe for instance that its easier to get into Rutgers Newark than Rutgers New Brunswick, but I think you can transfer if you do well. I believe there’s some similar arrangement for Penn State, because that’s what someone I know did–got into an easier branch of it and then transferred. </p>

<p>The college counselor sounds as if she may have been kind of harsh. And who knows what her agenda is. And yet, I guess you may have told your son a few hundred times that he might want to pick up his game and get better grades and he probably didn’t listen to you. Obviously he heard what she was saying–that actions have consequences–and he didn’t like the message. But he does need to hear that. It’s an incredibly valuable life lesson. </p>

<p>And he should definitely make sure to have some good safeties!</p>

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<p>dmd: Never heard of the rule you speak of…I think the OP lives in the Northeast (and so do I)…each district or high school sets the criteria for AP/honors placement; no two schools are the same and to my knowledge, they can decide who does and does not qualify for the classes…</p>

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<p>Public schools tend to be more formulaic in their admissions even while portending to be “holidstic”. There is more statistical information on public schools available on the internet than can be found for private schools. You can probably figure out on your own where your son would/could be admissable. If you don’t have the time or desire to do that work, then if this were my student, and this was the initial reaction from a “paid” counselor I would be running, running to someone else especially if he/she “didn’t know” about any “non-elite/prestige” schools. Some of these counselors I think want to notch their bedposts more than help kids (whose parents are paying for help to boot). If you are willing to share what schools your child was intitally interested in, there are very saavy parents on the forum that can help you pinpoint some that might work for your child…and it’s free if you are open to what college window sticker goes on your vehicle and I say that in all sincerity and not to be snotty.</p>

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<p>Agree with those who say college counselor has an agenda and may be playing the “lower expectations” game. Am also curious as to his rank, as jackief asked about.</p>

<p>Your ds has lots going for him, but they just won’t play as well at the numbers-driven big unis.</p>

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<p>in looking at stats – i would just really caution to realize that many top public colleges this year were flooded with applications due to the economy and admissions stats for this year could well be very different than for prior years. so before reaching any conclusions – try to make sure you are looking at data that reflects what occurred this year. and that hard data may not be available yet. (though if you look at threads here on cc for some of those schools you may get a feel for it – i know i’ve seen many students complaining that if they’d only been in last year’s application class, they’d have gotten a better result).</p>

<p>oh - and another factor this year with the economy – many state schools are dealing with budget issues that are causing some to even work harder in admissions to keep class size under control.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the outpouring of advice and support. I’ll try to address all questions:</p>

<p>–Will not be playing football in college. As it is, it is a tremendous time commitment in high school…in excess of 30 hours per week in-season and about 10 or so out of season. </p>

<p>–Our school doesn’t rank. It is a top public in our state though, FWIW.</p>

<p>–He can’t take a college course in the summer because of the football commitment, which is summer-long. Prior to high school, he took CTY courses for four years so I’m sure that he would do well in a summer course…but he is very proud of the four year commitment he has made to the football team (many kids drop out) and would not want to leave the team right before senior year. (Inability to do the football program in the summer means you are out.)</p>

<p>–He is not taking any electives next year…they are all academic classes. I don’t know how many, if any, APs would be ones that we could “push for”. He feels that AP Chem or Physics would be “impossible” and that, since he wasn’t in honors English this year, he would not be prepared for the AP. I don’t even know that there is an AP History option at the school…would have to check this out.</p>

<p>–Our GC is nice but not that reachable. (I e-mailed her two weeks ago and haven’t received a response.) She does know my son fairly well because he is so involved in the school, but her own child went to Harvard so I do wonder if she is more interested in kids of that ilk. </p>

<p>Finally, we scoured Naviance to find matches/safeties, but one thing the GC did say was that the landscape is so different this year that schools that look like safeties may no longer be. </p>

<p>When we met with the college counselor, here are the schools he told her he was interested in:</p>

<p>Michigan (huge reach/long shot/but double legacy)
Maryland (loved this school)
Penn State (single legacy)</p>

<p>Will apply to UConn and Indiana but was not in love with either</p>

<p>Will go to see UMass because we heard it was a safety from the GC (college counselor said she didn’t know and would have to look at the stats…my son says all of the low GPA kids end up there).</p>

<p>Syracuse (only private one we had on the list)…are happy to consider others that aren’t outrageously expensive.</p>

<p>College Counselor we saw asked if he would be interested in Emory or Tulane…meanwhile, those seem to be huge reaches from my perspective…at the same time, she called Penn State a “public ivy”. I went there, and I would never call it a public ivy…Michigan is another story.</p>

<p>Back to Guidance Counselor…<strong>she</strong> said UMass and Indiana were closer to safeties and recommended American (which is very expensive and doesn’t have the “rah rah” feel that my son wants, I think…but we haven’t visited)</p>

<p>I hope that helps. And thank you again.</p>

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<p>My D has a friend who is a freshman at Penn State OOS (University Park) with stats your son has. I also agree IU is good possibility.</p>

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<p>if he liked maryland, did you look at towson?</p>

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<p>take a look at the qualified admissions criteria for the publics in your state and for out of state at publics in adjoining states. this can be found in the common data set…just google it…using common data set or qualified admissions and the university name. i googled one just now and it shows min. SAT of 1090 (cr and math) or min. 2.4 gpa (on a 4.0) scale. review the list of top public schools (national universities) found at us news and world report website. there are many publics, especially in the midwest, that are thought of in a positive light. most kids from our mid-western state do attend public universities. check out qualified admissions criteria for some of these schools on the list. i didn’t see ap classes listed on the qualified admissions criteria at the one that i viewed. check out the schools in the big 12 and big 10 conferences…for that rah, rah feel. </p>

<p>i think he’ll see that he has lots of options for schools. jmho, i think that he will have success in admissions with many schools. keep moving forward now. check out the common data sets and freshman profiles for many schools. continue to encourage him. pick up a copy of the the fiske guide…lots of good info. in the guide. he might even want to go ahead and take the ACT PLUS as his score may be even higher than the SAT equivalent. some schools offer merit $$$ for high ACT and it would help with admissions. some schools have merit aid calculators…check those out. these are all suggestions to move him forward in a positive way. i don’t think the counselor you visited is a good fit for your son’s situation and i’d re-evaluate if having one is absolutely necessary.</p>

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<p>I think UMass is a great school to consider. It’s in a great location, kids can take classes at Amherst, Hampshire, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, there’s a ton going on. It’s not the safety it once was, I gotta say. But it’s definitely worth a shot! I would agree with you about American. It does seem not to have the real college atmosphere your boy would want.
I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t apply to all of his top three choices. I’ve heard Indiana has a gorgeous campus and it is a great place.</p>

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<p>what about university of Wisconsin at Madison?</p>

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<p>ready: Yes, I would rule out Emory, but Tulane would probably be a reach (not extremely unattainable though; there is actually someone on CC who was just admitted from the waitlist with similar stats to your son)…</p>

<p>By the way, check the thread histories from UMich; there is definitely a kid from a public in CT last year who applied RD with a 3.2 or 3.3 UMGPA who was accepted and I think is attending; can’t remember exact screen name of his mom though…maybe CTmom? totally a surprise, but nevertheless…</p>

<p>Other safeties look accurate…and Penn State is quirky so you never know…</p>

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<p>Have him keep an open mind and start to think outside the box. UKansas, UMissouri and UOklahoma all have what he seems to be looking for and he has the stats to get in all three (numbers driven formulas). My S with similar scores and a lower gpa is a very happy freshman at UKansas.</p>

<p>As a bonus, Southwest Airlines services all of them.</p>

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<p>He did take the ACTs…composite of 30 (English was a 32 and reading a 29…other scores 30). Writing scores has not come back yet. I think the ACT score is comparable to his one sitting SAT, but lower than his superscored SAT if I interpreted correctly.</p>

<p>I forgot Wisconsin…he will apply there but I think of it as tougher to get into than Penn State or Maryland.</p>

<p>I’ve looked at lots of common data sets and poured over Naviance. But…I think what is reflected in there isn’t what may happen next year. Once the public colleges gets tons more people accepting their offers than they thought they would this year, they will adjust accordingly next year, don’t you think?</p>

<p>Haven’t looked at Towson…will go research that now!! My son says Purdue also take the very low GPA kids (like in the 2s…funny how he thinks he’s so different!)</p>

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<p>Some other schools to look at (by looking at schools you list, I assume he prefers decent sports/school spirit, and and not small):</p>

<p>James Madision, UDelaware, Rutgers, Hofstra, not sure about sports but consider UNC Wilmington (near the beach). You might want to check out some Florida public Us (lower prices for OOS there).</p>

<p>Frankly I think that his SAT scores will help carry him at some schools. Does he have honors classes, and can he take one AP as a senior? This might also help. They might want to see how did in the one AP by looking at mid year grades. He should not be disapppointed if he is offered another campus, other than the main, at Penn State.</p>