More reality/upset son

<p>I’d venture to guess that a CTY kid who is not in honors/AP classes is bored. It becomes a vicious cycle: boredom begets lack of effort in required classwork begets lack of access to more interesting classes and around and around we go.</p>

<p>Your S has clearly chosen to direct his energy elsewhere: student government, football, a job. It may be that he simply isn’t intellectually inclined, bright as he is. Lots of smart people aren’t. He may be perfectly happy majoring in business at a big school and being president of his frat or student gov. Or it may be that the level of his classes has turned him off. He may take a philosophy course in college and take off in an unexpected direction! :)</p>

<p>It sounds as if he wants a school that plays to his [current] strengths. Luckily, there are plenty of universities out there that do, many of which have been mentioned on this thread. I don’t know what’s going on with the counselor, but he needs to have a realistic list, keep his grades going in an upward direction, and APPLY EARLY to rolling admissions schools.Great GPAs and scores and activities are likely to meet rejection OOS if the application arrives in December!</p>

<p>I’m sorry your son has started off the college process this way. I would say to find another college counselor who has an entirely different approach to the admissions process. I can certainly understand that your son is upset, but try to get him the understand that one person’s opinion is NOT the be-all-to-end-all. What year is your son in? It’s never too late to show colleges an upward trend in his grades. Make sure that he stays on top of his studies through his senior year. This is always an impressive aspect of any application.
In addition, don’t let him forget that grades and scores are simply part of an application. So much more is said about the outstanding person he is through his extracurricular activities and essays. If he has struggled through school, he should allow himself to shine through these aspects of his application.
Finally, when his school guidance counselor writes his recommendation, they will be able to convey any struggles that he has had academically in a more positive light, especially if his grades have improved significantly. Trust me, he WILL get into college and he WILL end up somewhere that he likes. I know people with lesser statistics who have gotten accepted into several universities.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Not trying to pile on the messenger, but I really have a problem with hammering a kid about the negatives that at this point cannot be changed. The focus needs to be on schools where this kid, who is clearly not the most academically inclined – at least at the moment, would be a good fit. If he is interested in large public schools, there are LOTS of them out there where his stats fit right in. If he’s not interested in small LACs, don’t push them. The wonderful thing is that at many of these schools there are automatic calculators which tell you if you’re eligible for admission. For example, Arizona State University (ASU) has this:</p>

<p>Aptitude Requirement</p>

<p>Students must meet one of the following aptitude requirements:</p>

<pre><code>* 3.0 GPA in competency courses (2.5 - 2.99 considered)

  • Top 25% (top 26-50% considered)
  • ACT 22 (24 nonresidents)*
  • SAT Reasoning 1040 (1110 nonresidents)*
    </code></pre>

<p>*ASU does not require the writing portion of these tests.</p>

<p>Competency Requirement</p>

<p>Admission may be granted with one deficiency in no more than two competency areas. Deficiencies in both math and laboratory science are not acceptable. Students must earn a minimum 2.0 in any subject area. Most competencies may also be met by test scores or college courses. See Detailed Competency Requirements for more information.</p>

<pre><code>* English - 4 years (composition/literature based)

  • Math - 4 years - Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra II and one course requiring Algebra II as a prerequisite.
  • Laboratory Science - 3 years total (1 year each from any of the following areas are accepted: Biology, Chemistry, Earth Science, Integrated Sciences, and Physics)
  • Social Science - 2 years (including one year American History)
  • Foreign Language - 2 years (same language)
  • Fine Arts - 1 year
    </code></pre>

<p>My take is that the private counselor isn’t used to working with students who have a mismatch between SAT/gpa as much as your son has, and she sounds somewhat unfamiliar with requirements at many of the big publics, probably because those aren’t the schools students generally are interested in when they seek out private college counseling.</p>

<p>I also echo the suggestion that your son pick several of these large public schools and apply as soon as the admissions window opens. Many (most?) don’t use the common ap, but their applications tend to be simpler anyway; some don’t even have essays or require recommendations. </p>

<p>I’m of the “bloom where you are planted” theory. If he goes to a large public and puts time and energy into doing well academically, he’ll have many options going forward. Some schools, like ASU, have very well-known honors colleges into which kids can transfer after a year of excellent grades at ASU even if the high school grades weren’t outstanding. </p>

<p>He sounds like a neat kid, and I suspect that he has every capability of doing very well in college. Good luck!</p>

<p>This kid has 25 to 38 hours a week of outside commitments if you count only his football and his part-time job. When you factor in the time he puts into his school leadership and other EC activities, his GPA comes into a different perspective. </p>

<p>I agree with Blossom that the counselor did not serve him well. Conveying the “reality” that he would not be going to Berkeley was a small part of her task. But a professional college counselor who couldn’t come up with attractive safeties that perhaps he’d never thought of before for a boy with a solid B average and high SAT/ACT’s, and who couldn’t muster enthusiasm for some of the obvious matches that have been mentioned on this board, or talk about ways he might approach a couple of his reaches in the best way – how was this useful?</p>

<p>New counselor, new strategy, exploration of some new schools, and a willingness to have all of the essays etc. done by the end of the summer so he can take advantage of rolling admissions should go a long way to getting him into colleges that will work well for him.</p>

<p>Chances at Wisconsin look better with his 30 ACT - it’s in their top score range (30-36). Plus, they’re slightly lopsided with more females, so your son might have a slight edge in that regard. :)</p>

<p>Look at UGA – big college, serious football/sports atmosphere. Being a HS football player would serve him well even if he’s not playing in college. We have friends whose S got into Penn State Univ Park w/a high 1900 and 3.3-ish. I think VA Tech, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky may be schools to consider, too. Towson has football, too, should your S change his mind about playing in college.</p>

<p>There are PLENTY of good schools where your S can thrive. Working while playing football is pretty darned impressive. Schools will notice that. Can the coach write a supplemental rec letter talking about his dedication to the team and how hard he works?</p>

<p>I have a football player who knows he’s not going to get recruited, but is looking at LACs where it may be possible to play D-III.</p>

<p>I think that your counselor is being an alarmist, and I would hate to see your son turned off just when he needs to ramp things up. I went through the same thing with my son’s first GC. What I learned was that good SATs (2150) are always an asset, and an upward trend is appreciated. Thank you, second guidance counselor. Your son sounds like an involved, athletic student; if he’s not a stand-out scholar, neither are most kids who apply to the kind of schools you are looking at. </p>

<p>Plus, he’s a boy. IME that helps.</p>

<p>My guess is that you will be pleasantly surprised come acceptance time. Make sure your son does an excellent job on his essays and applications. </p>

<p>Not sure where you are located, but what about UVM? I didn’t see you mention that one.</p>

<p>I second the suggestion of UGA.</p>

<p>And I would suggest looking at Pitt. Public, lots of school spirit, and Pittsburgh is developing a reputation as a great college “small city!”</p>

<p>Avg SAT for Pitt acceptances at S2’s school is mid-1900s. They are a rolling admission and getting very hot – they have already sent S2 an app. APPLY EARLY. It would be a great acceptance to have in hand going forward, and it’s getting to be a hot school (with football, and of course, basketball). If you can visit on one of their rising senior days during the summer, kids can fill out the app on the spot.</p>

<p>Wake up call! Sounds like a student who is focused on his day to day life, is very engaged during the football season, and is clearly bright but not academically driven. What drives him… hobbies? social life? family life? What else is behind his stats and football team membership? Where is his story? That’s where I’d look and build from there.</p>

<p>It is disappointing for a student to feel busy and be busy and attend CTY and suddenly confront the reality of a 3.2. The counselor does not sound like a good fit for this student, who sounds like a team player who may need a stronger coach. This one may be realistic but her delivery did not inspire or motivate. As a fourth quarter high school junior, this student has very little time in which to improve his stats. If he were able to pull a 4.0 for the next three quarters, retake the SAT and the ACT, would that make a difference at the schools he has in mind? Or should he apply to them as reaches and now focus on fleshing out the rest of his list with schools that are a decent fit with his existing stats? Or both?</p>

<p>During the fall semester it sounds like he will be fully engaged in football and the logistics of filing applications. It would take great motivation and effort to improve his GPA at a supremely busy and stressful time of year. A better counselor (i.e.better chemistry) might help a motivated student develop the positive mindset and hope and determination and encouragement he needs to carry the ball.</p>

<p>I second Pitt. A good school, big sports. etc. EASY application (no essay if not applying for honors college or scholarships - but he probably should…), rolling admissions, so you can know the results very early.</p>

<p>Unfotunately as I am also sorry to hear, counselor is correct in case that your S is thinking about very selective programs / colleges. Otherwise, he should be totally fine. I do not if this distinction has been made. Selective programs that my D has applied would not consider anybody with 3.2 and no AP’s, she knew it long before her senior year. However, if she did not get into programs, she would still go to a college. I disagrre with the counselor for being so negative, she should have pointed out that there is a nice matching spot for everybody at some college, just find yours that fit you best. Your S would not be feeling so turned down if he heard that.</p>

<p>To the OP.</p>

<p>Just a message of support as you help your son move forward. Love the kid on your couch … find someone who can help him as his now and not beat him up for what he is not, has not done, or for not maximizing his potential.</p>

<p>I had a pretty big imbalance between my HS GPA and my SAT scores and I did OK for myself. There were a couple underlying issues. First, and by far the biggest issue, was I was immature and undisciplined and I need to grow up some … and I eventually did. Second, my intellectual interest kicked in when I found courses that were eventually my major … I am very focus and engaged when I really like something and not so good if I do not like things … it was true at 16-18 and this is still true at 50. It’s taken me a long time to get comfortable with whom I am and am not … but was very good training for parenting … and loving the child on my couch!</p>

<p>It seems to me that a major part of the counselor’s job is to tell you if you have a realistic set of schools on your list?</p>

<p>3.2/2050 are good numbers, but OOS at Berkeley, Michigan and UVA they’re probably not good enough. Some of the strategies mentioned here will help, but it’s still going to be a long shot for those schools.</p>

<p>Frankly, it seems like the counselor did you a favor. Maybe you or your son don’t like the way she did it, but the message appears terribly accurate. I’d be wary of signing up another counselor who only told you what you wanted to hear.</p>

<p>I’d try a different counselor, one who has suggestions of things your son can do to have a chance at the schools he wants to attend. My friend’s D went to a private counselor who was very negative about her. She told her she wouldn’t get into any of the schools on her list and suggested schools that neither the girl nor her parents thought would be at all academically challenging or appropriate. After paying large amounts of money to this counselor, the girl ended up applying to all the schools on her own list and only one school that the counselor suggested. She got into the school the counselor suggested as well as 10 of the 12 schools on her own list, including her dream school, and got merit money at several of them. Clearly the counselor was missing the good things this girl had going for her and focusing on the negative, while admissions folks apparently saw the good. I know of another girl in the same class who used this counselor, and the counselor saw only the good in this second girl and encouraged her in applying to the schools on her list, most of which I thought were reaches. This second girl was rejected or wait listed at every school she applied to except for our state flagship and one non-flagship OOS public, which were her safeties. This is a counselor with a very good reputation in our area, so go figure. Clearly your son is not clicking with the counselor you met with, so there’s little point in using this person.</p>

<p>UGA would be a real stretch as well. 60-70 percent of weight is given to GPA.</p>

<p>It sounds like the OP isn’t particularly interested in the South.</p>

<p>My niece graduated from Kansas and got a great education and loved it there.</p>

<p>If finances aren’t a factor and he was sure about 1 school, I would consider applying ED. Unfortunately, I don’t think Michigan or Maryland have ED. </p>

<p>According to our public school’s Naviance, the overwhelming number of students who applied to Maryland with a profile like your son were accepted. I’m not saying he’ll definitely get accepted-- but he has a good shot. However, applying early to Md is critical. It has a 11/1 deadline for the first part of the app and a 12/1 deadline for the 2nd. I can safely say that if he misses those deadlines, he is unlikely to get an acceptance. </p>

<p>Michigan looks unlikely (but he has nothing to lose other than the fees) but Penn State is another good shot. </p>

<p>I would suggest looking at U of Arizona. It’s a big public with strong sports, lots of rah-rah feel and lots of bright kids. Naviance also supports all suggestions for Virginia Tech, Arizona State, Indiana and Delaware. Pitt and Wisconsin are not out of the question; it looks to me like kids with high SATs from our school did well at both regardless of gpa. Oh, and Naviance says U of Colorado Boulder is a good match although, unfortunately, I know nothing about the school.</p>

<p>These comments have been so helpful.</p>

<p>Now the question is…do I show this thread to my son? I think some of your words will inspire him, but I don’t know how he would feel about me posting on CC about his life…</p>

<p>That’s a hard one! I’d say yes–we don’t know anything about this young man’s identity, and frankly, there are a lot of young men who fit his profile, so he would remain pretty anonymous. By the way, I’m impressed that he could do as well as he did while playing football. That must take up a tremendous amount of energy. I think he’s smart not to want to do that while in college. Best of luck to you and him.</p>