Multiple Choices--Siblings and College Decisions & Tuitions

College Search & Selection
1

<p>"Jessica," a high school junior in my orbit, has a older brother, "Adam" who is a full-pay sophomore at an Ivy League university. Because Jessica is not an Ivy contender, she feels pressure from her parents to attend her state university so that they will not be juggling two high tuition bills at once. "If I could get into an Ivy, I know they'd let me go," she reports, "but since I can't, they don't want me to consider any private college. I understand where they're coming from, but I also don't think it's fair. It's not as if I won't get a good education at a smaller non-Ivy school, and I'm not very excited about our state school."</p>

<p>Over the years, I've seen a wide-range of sibling-related admissions issues. Some families with multiple children in college at once go way out on a financial limb--sometimes even too far out--to guarantee fairness. Others may limit college options for one or more children in anticipation of all the tuition bills ahead. And, of course, there are always those kids, like Jessica, who spend much of their lives in the shadow of a superstar older sibling, only to discover that the comparisons really heat up during the admissions process. </p>

<p>How has your family dealt with the sibling situation when facing college application and enrollment choices? </p>

<p>Parents: Have you bent over backwards to assure equal treatment? Have you restricted college options? Has the EFC break that goes to siblings saved the day? Have you taken advantage of any specific sibling scholarships? </p>

<p>Students: How did your role as an older or younger brother or sister affect your college process? (How about as a twin or triplet?)</p>

<p>What wisdom can all of you pass along to those who aren't quite there yet but who are looking down the multiple-child-choice road?</p>

2

<p>Our older child is in his second year at an expensive, competitive LAC. Our younger is starting at an expensive, competitive university in August. For us, both had the grades and scores to get in to most schools. We had an agreement with each of them that started as a discussion when they were sophomores in high school. Their choice: we would pay for an expensive college and they were on their own for graduate school, or they would get good merit aid at a less competitive school and we would help with graduate school. Both of them chose the first route. With the economy as it is, my second child considered a terrific deal with the local community college for two years, and then a transfer to an Ivy for the last two. Based on our EFC, that would basically save us no money the next two years! For many people it would and I think it's a good strategy. What concerns me is that most parents do not have this discussion early enough, so the child has no idea what's too much or too little for tuition.
Having this discussion early also allows for what's fair and best for each child, which may not be equal.</p>

3

<p>I'm a parent of twins who will enter freshman year of college this fall.</p>

<p>When our twins were born, it was no surprise that they would eventually turn 18 and go off to college. Hence, we saved every last dollar from birth and put it into a college fund for them.</p>

<p>(You may have heard me complain on this forum that I feel we're being penalized, EFC-wise, because we saved for their college years. Finally a couple of posters made me realize that life is indeed good.)</p>

<p>They were both allowed to apply ED to their first choices, since we knew we could pay. They were both accepted at their first choices, and will attend. I guess you could call it a happy story.</p>

<p>But if this were not the reality of the situation, yes indeed, we would have bent over backward to assure equal treatment. I would consider "equal treatment" to consist of the following:</p>

<p>(1) if one is allowed to apply anyplace, so is the other.
(2) if one has no restrictions (money-wise), then neither does the other.
(3) we would encourage both to find the best fit for their (very different) needs
(4) Remember they are indeed individuals. One size does not fit all.</p>

<p>Bottom line, whether twins or any other siblings, I believe putting restrictions on one (or two) and not the other one (or two, or three), is just not right. When parents have kids, they should realize that college will arrive some day. Save for all, or save for none. Um, make that save for all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What wisdom can all of you pass along to those who aren't quite there yet but who are looking down the multiple-child-choice road?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Save, save, save. Then save some more.</p>

4

<p>I'm a recent alum, so I go in the student category for this question.</p>

<p>My parents support my sister and I (full-blood siblings, so both of the same parents) equally in this sense. I went full-pay to MIT. She goes full-pay to Duke. We were both explicitly told not to consider cost when making our college decisions, to put it out of our minds when comparing schools to which we'd been admitted. My parents planned for dealing with multiple kids when they started doing college savings.</p>

<p>Things get more complicated with blended families, though, because the kids have different parents and thus different family incomes and wealth. My little half-brother will probably go to a state school (he will probably also <em>prefer</em> this, because he's not super-academic and likes a big sports scene and lots of people around, so I expect it to work out fine). My stepbrother went to the local state school on full scholarship (though he wasn't motivated to look into or apply to anything else, which probably had as much to do with this as finance did).</p>

5

<p>As a parent of two kids who are two years apart, though the second child decided to graduate HS a year early and so they were one year apart in terms of applying to college, we did the same for both kids. This has permeated any decision we have made with the kids. I'd call it "equal opportunity" as opposed to "equal cost." We did not compare the cost of each of their schools, in other words. Both were permitted to apply anywhere they wanted and to choose any school they wished to attend and we'd find a way to make it happen for them (both were very good students and so we feel they did THEIR part). It so happens that with two in college at the same time, the EFC and the financial aid was a lot better. First kid couldn't help that her first year of college had only one of our kids in college, so the yearly cost was more that year. In any case, whether it was the kids' extracurricular endeavors that cost money, their summer programs, or college, they were given equal opportunity to do what they wanted (and we could fund) even if the cost was not totally equal (though it has often come pretty close anyway). Where we go tit for tat on money is more for things like their clothing budgets, their allowance, etc. But for things like books and school supplies, it is again "equal opportunity" and we pay for whatever those cost even if kid A's supplies for class cost more than kid B's. Further, our oldest is now attending a 3.5 year professional graduate school that we are funding. The younger one will not be going to grad school as her undergrad degree is a professional degree program already. It is not like we are now handing the younger one the same amount of money that it cost the older one to go to grad school. Where equal oppportunity comes into play is that if the younger one wanted to go to grad school, she'd be afforded that same opportunity for us to fund it as the older one got. </p>

<p>While not exactly ON topic here, one thing in the original post that caught my eye and I have seen it several times here on CC, is the notion that a parent will pay for an Ivy League school which is a private school education, but if not Ivy, they will only fund a state school. I absolutely cannot fathom that way of thinking. It comes across that only an Ivy is "worth" the extra money but otherwise, a state school would do (nothing wrong with state schools of course). Are all non-Ivy privates chopped liver? They are not worth the money without the Ivy label? Yikes. What message does that send to the kid (the second kid in the family you refer to)? That would really bother me. I would be willing to pay the same exact amount of money for any college my kids chose to attend that fit them, and not more for an Ivy (and I even had one kid at an Ivy). I never thought of the cost of the tuition as more worthy depending on the label of the school.</p>

6

<p>Sally:
How are you handling it? Have you talked to the parents or as a professional is the best thing to do is to stay out of it?</p>

7

<p>At any Ivy, having a sibling in school will half the contribution your family is expected to pay regardless of the expense of your sibling's institution.</p>

<p>When my sister went to school, no matter where she went, I was getting my costs cut in half at Brown.</p>

8

<p>We have 3 kids,: college frosh, HS junior, 8th grader. We will have two kids in college in 2010, 2011, and 2013</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you bent over backwards to assure equal treatment? Have you restricted college options?

[/quote]

This question comes into play when the first child is deciding where to go. The way we handled it was to allocate what we could pay while assuring equal funds for the other 2 kids. This takes some doing because it involves making a 4-year projection of COA and income. Our oldest understood that he would have to take out loans to cover any shortfall. Hence we did not restrict his options, per se. It was up to him. He decided up front, that he did not want to graduate with more than $24K in loans. Projected loans for his top choice, after wrangling with the Fin Aid people, was $30K. He ended up turning them down. He got off the wait list at one of his other schools which, fortunately, had great FA. He will be able to attend the first two years without any loans. Kid 2 understands the same rules will apply to her. I don't know what level of borrowing she is comfortable with.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Has the EFC break that goes to siblings saved the day?

[/quote]

We're not quite there yet, but we do recognize that the EFC break will only apply for three out of the nine years our kids will be in college. While it definitely helps, it doesn't make the impossible possible.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you taken advantage of any specific sibling scholarships?

[/quote]

No.</p>

9

<p>This thread is helping me come to terms with the prospect of D1 attending a private university next year (with no financial aid). With the cost differential between private and public, I've been wondering whether she should have focused instead on state schools - though our state school wouldn't be as good a match as the private she'll be attending. And looking ahead to D2's application process in a few years, I've been quietly thinking: maybe she'll be the one to go a state school ... Anyway, it's great to be reminded of the importance of equal opportunities/equal treatment. This has been our mantra throughout their childhoods. It would be wrong change now, just to save on educational expenses - even if the economy is putting a strain on the family budget and their college savings accounts. We have always valued education above all other "expeditures" and have been willing to put our money where our mouth is.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Parents: Have you bent over backwards to assure equal treatment?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, but perhaps not in the way you meant it. Younger sib wants to go OOS to college. Thus, the bar is set high: earn yourself a spot at one of those colleges that meets full need with great finaid (a small list), or attend a UC. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you restricted college options?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Only to those with great finaid, i.e., PLUS loans are not finaid.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Has the EFC break that goes to siblings saved the day?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Tried to 'bribe' older one to take a gap year to so that the sibs would be in college at teh same time for another year, but no go.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you taken advantage of any specific sibling scholarships?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not available at colleges under interest.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What wisdom can all of you pass along to those who aren't quite there yet but who are looking down the multiple-child-choice road?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If the older one is a late-year birthday, hold him/her back if younger sibs are within four years (to maximize finaid).</p>

11

<p>I can't speak from personal experience, but I can offer this:</p>

<p>My boyfriend is eighteen months younger than his older brother, and only one year behind in school. The brother is on a 1/3 scholarship at a prestigious tech school out East, and the expense is pretty taxing for a one-income family. My boyfriend's dream school was the same as his brother's, and he was allowed to apply there (as well as anywhere else he liked). However, he was not given as large of a scholarship as his brother when it came to financial aid time, and the school didn't think that his need was significant enough to pick up more than about $8,000 a year of the $40,000+ expenses. </p>

<p>His parents volunteered to pay for his #1 by taking out significant loans, if that school was what he really wanted, but my boyfriend decided to attend Rose-Hulman, his #2 school, which picked up $21,000 of the $44,000 cost. The monetary pros of the situation, to him, outweighed the prospect of going to his #1. He seems happy there now, fortunately, and he's very pleased with the post-graduation employment rate of Rose students.</p>

12

<p>This is an excellent question given the state of the economy for those of us who have kids closely straddling the b/c and a/c eras, by which I mean before the crash and after the crash. My older son is a sophomore at a relatively expensive, relatively selective private LAC. It was within our means, comfortably so before the crash eviscerated our college and retirement savings; less comfortably now. He loves his choice and we are very happy with the education he is receiving.</p>

<p>Our younger son is a junior in high school. He will have to choose a college in just about exactly one year from now. Our older son is a very bright kid, but our younger son has substantially better "measurables;" he is clearly a candidate for any school, however selective. Before the crash, it was our hope to fund whatever choice he made, even at an elite school that offers no merit aid. (We are just barely on the wrong side of qualifying for any FA -- at least assuming I'm still employed at the time of his admission.) The year when older son is a senior and younger son is a freshman would have been hard, but we had saved for many years to be able to manage it. </p>

<p>So under the old financial reality, our plan was to have treated both "equally," in the sense that we were committed to supporting them both at the schools they could be admitted to and chose, whatever they were. </p>

<p>In the new reality, we may not be able to do that. Simply put, we may have to limit younger son's choices to less selective private Universities and LACs likely to provide merit aid, or to the state public, where he would receive no aid, but which is nevertheless affordable for us. Certainly we intend to continue to support older son at his college because it would be very unfair to require him to leave it at this point.</p>

<p>Is this "fair?" I don't know. I'm sorry it has happened this way for our younger son but there's not much I can do about it. It's bad timing for him. I think he understands it; most kids are acutely aware of what's going on financially in the world and in their family. I have encouraged him to apply wherever he wishes to, but I can sense his heart isn't in it, probably because he implicitly understands how difficult it might be for us. Perhaps there will be a ray of sunshine in the economy by this time next fall and the realistic choices will expand. I don't know that either. All you can do is what you can. At the end of the day we'll get both our kids through college one way or another, one place or another. That's not so bad. "Fairness" will have to take a back seat.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
Sally:How are you handling it? Have you talked to the parents or as a professional is the best thing to do is to stay out of it?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This issue ("Jessica" and her brother "Adam") came to me as an e-mail query from a stranger, so I am reluctant to start interfering without seeing more than a tiny corner of the Big Picture.</p>

<p>But what I typically do in such situations is: </p>

<p>1) I would try to get a brief and general overview of the family dynamics ... e.g., does the daughter always feel like the brother has been the Golden Child or did the parents, in fact, shell out thousands for her ice-skating or horseback riding "career" while the sibling joined the chess club for free? ;) Or is the parental decision tied to the fact that she was a social butterfly while Big Bro always had his nose to the grindstone?</p>

<p>2) I will tell the student to put together a mature and well-thought out "plan," that includes the names of private colleges she wants to consider and some compelling reasons why these would be wise choices for her ... both in terms of the quality of the undergrad experience they would offer and the springboard they would provide towards her post-graduation goals. </p>

<p>3) I would also ask her to confirm that her parents' Ivy-or-public mind-set is predicated on their belief that an Ivy education is an investment in the brother's future that the cost of a lesser-known college might not match. I might also ask her to extract from her parents (as calmly as possible) any other reasons that they feel her education doesn't warrant the same $$$ they are shelling out for the older brother. Depending on how she responds to this question, I may be able to provide her with some ammunition to refute the parental reasoning ... or I might support it (after all, I'm a parent myself :D )</p>

<p>4) Finally, I would urge the student to propose alternatives to the parents' plan ... e.g., if she can land a merit scholarship at a top-choice college, perhaps the parents will pay the balance, even if the cost exceeds the state-school costs. Or, as was already mentioned on this thread, she could float a deal about shouldering her own grad-school costs when the time comes in exchange for more undergrad options.</p>

<p>Ultimately, of course, it's not my place to meddle in the affairs of strangers (addictive as it can be :p ).</p>

14

<p>Sally- this is a great topic. I am a single parent of 3 children. DD is currently a junior at pricey LAC...with full tuition scholarhip. Her freshman year she had additional outside scholarships, so our outlay of cash that year was manageable. Her second year, we had to come up with room and board plus and it was a challenge that we managed by taking out a loan. She landed an RA job for this year (and hopefully next) so that her room was covered. The RA job and perks was not a part of the plan as we accepted the LAC way back when. Just trying to let people know that thinking outside of the box a little bit can be a solution to $$ issues. </p>

<p>DS #1 is a freshman at a state uni on a full tuition + music scholarship. He did apply at some pricey privates and conservatories but decided on current school and is quite happy! I will encourage an RA job for him as well. I realize that I am truly blessed with these two kids and the financial awards that they earned.</p>

<p>DS# 2 is h.s. junior. He is a pleasant, well behaved A/B student and he is complacent with being an average student. He would like to play a sport in college but will not likely qualify for any scholarship dollars for academics or athletics. He is my "normal" kid. I am curious what parents on this board would do for this kid. With older 2 nearing the end of being on my payroll, I can likely help DS#2 with most college expenses. But will this be fair to older two? The older two will not likely be resentful if I paid for most of DS#2 college- the kids all care for each other very much. Curious what others have done in this position. I was never able to save any of my modest income for college and have been "winging it" as far as getting the older two into college. (With the help of CC things are going well!)</p>

15

<p>My DS and DD are a year apart, with our DS older. They are in their sophomore and freshman years of college now. My H and I looked at equity not in terms of dollars, but in terms of offering support to pursue the education that best fits what they're interested in studying. Our income allows us to support what they need to do this.</p>

<p>DS wasn't too sure about what he wanted to study. He's a self-confident guy with grades (3.9), test scores (33 ACT) and ECs that would nearly guarantee admission to our state flagship, and would give him a decent chance at more competitive schools. We discussed options during the college application stage and all agreed that without a specific course of study or burning desire to get into a particular program that the state flagship was the best choice. We help him with tuition, but he takes out loans to the extent that FAFSA allows and works during school and in the summertime. He'll graduate with maybe $10 - $15 K in debt, which gives him some skin in the game but doesn't cripple him. He's very happy with his choice and is thriving.</p>

<p>DD was in a very different boat. She was laser-focused on being a vocal performance major and studying at a conservatory. Her grades were OK (3.4) and test scores were pretty good (30 ACT). We talked A LOT about her options and goals and came to the conclusion that if she was accepted to a conservatory that we'd do what we could to support her financially. She ended up being accepted at a conservatory, along with some much more affordable state school music programs. After some intense soul searching, we decided to send her to the conservatory, which has tuition quadruple that of our son's school. She's 2/3 the way through her first year and has had no doubt that she's in the right place. She also takes out loans as FAFSA will allow and will work this summer. We're lending her money to make up what FAFSA won't cover, and she'll end up with closer to 30K in debt...more than her brother, but more skin in her much more expensive game. We're making up the rest of the costs of her school.</p>

<p>DS and I had a long chat about this equity question on the way back to school after semester break. He said that he sometimes thinks about the fact that his sister is getting much more money from us for school and wonders about the fairness. I told him that, had he wanted to study something specific at a specific school that offered a specialized program, we would have supported that. I said that he'll likely graduate with a more marketable degree, with less debt, than his sister. I pointed out that he's very happy where he is...he agreed that he's in a good place and that he's glad he's not in her position. My H and I will likely give him some sort of financial boost when he finishes as a kind of gesture toward more financial fairness.</p>

<p>I recognize that our financial position has allowed us to be able to tackle the fairness question in this way, and that we're very fortunate to have this flexibility. So far, it's working for us.</p>

16

<p>Now I am wondering if my brothers ever felt any resentment towards me for going to an OOS conservatory while they went public in-state. I did get some good scholarships so I have no idea how much more my parents paid for my education. My piano teacher strongly recommended I should go to a better school than was available locally and they fortunately took his advice. </p>

<p>Bottom line, they have been very successful in their careers and happy in what they did, I just wonder how they felt at the time.</p>

<p>Edit: they were probably fine, or unaware. I was always the odd duck nerdy musician who was probably switched at the hospital anyway. :D</p>

17

<p>We have told both our kids that we will pay what it costs for the state flagship U, and they will have to take out loans if they choose a school that is more expensive than that.</p>

<p>Our oldest is a Harvard freshman, and luckily for him, Harard's FA has us paying about what it would cost us to send him to the state flagship U. (He could have had a full ride there, but he said Harvard was his top choice if we could afford it. And we could, based on what we had budgeted.)</p>

<p>Our second child's stats are good, but not as breathtaking as the older sibling's. We will pay up to the same amount per year for her (i.e. cost of state flagship U) at whatever school she chooses. If she opts for something more expensive and she can't get FA or merit scholarships to pay for it, she will pay for it with student loans.</p>

<p>We haven't really thought through what happens for the two years when both are in college and, hopefully, our per kid cost is lower. My guess is that we will pay UP TO the amount we said we would, but not hand over any rebate/surplus to the kid(s). (We are already picking up enough extras.) Our retirement and college savings have taken a big hit, but we plan to continue to provide the support we have pledged. However, if my spouse or I lose a job between now and the end of the college process, we may have to modify things a bit. We'll cross that bridge when and if we come to it.</p>

<p>We've never felt the need to make sure we spent exactly the same amount on each kid each year at Christmas or birthdays, and they have never questioned or complained about our "fairness." I hope and assume that in the future, whatever happens, they know we are trying to do the best for both of them that we can.</p>

18

<p>My sons are two years apart - one a soph & one a sr (in college now). Thankfully, every college they both applied to gave them about the same amt of merit & grant money so cost was even. They ended up at the same university with the same price for each. </p>

<p>Now we are talking about grad school. One is in the humanities & one in the science/math world. One will obviously get much more money than the other. This will be a little trickier. The science/math son has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't care how much we help out the older one because he knows that there is a vast difference in funding. I will however give the science/math one the same amount that I give the humanities one though or at least as close as possible.</p>

<p>I like fairness even though it doesn't always happen;)</p>

<p>As far as these two students mentioned by OP. As we found out in our college search there are many times you can attend a private college for less than a public. In OH our publics are running around $20k. We are paying about $12k ea for a tier 1 university. The total cost of this uni is about $50k per year so I think we are getting a pretty good deal to say the least.</p>

19

<p>We contributed equally to college savings funds for our two children, who are three and a half years apart in age and 4 years apart in school. But equal investment does not necessarily result in equal account values. The older child was dollar cost averaging into the pre-2001 bull stock market for over 13 years, while his younger sister was investing for about 9 years before the 2001 correction. S had significantly more money in his account as a HS senior than his sister now does. When the recent "correction" hit, S's money had nearly all been spent, while D's money, invested "conservatively", took a 20% hit.</p>

<p>We told both S and D that we were willing to cover the full cost at flagship state U with their college funds, plus extra from us, if needed. If they wanted to go to a more expensive school, they needed to receive merit aid and work to cover the additional cost. S is a senior at an expensive LAC about 2500 miles from home. He received almost 2/3 the cost of tuition in merit aid as a freshman. He has worked summers and part-time during the school year, and will graduate debt free. D is still waiting to hear the final scholarship and merit offer from her first choice in-state LAC. She also plans to work during the school year as well as summers. We expect to have to cover more of her costs out of our pockets than we did for her brother. So it won't be equal, but it will be fair.</p>

<p>We are lucky that both were high achieving students with good EC's. If they were not the type of student to earn high merit awards, they likely would have attended one of the public in-state universities. There's nothing wrong with the public U's, but its a totally different college experience.</p>

20

<p>D1 is a sophomore with a 1/2 athletic scholarship to a private university which puts our share at around $25,000 yr. She works hard for her 1/2 contribution. D2 applied ED to an expensive west coast LAC (we knew we might not get financial aid, but took the chance to get a possible admissions edge). As a DIII athlete she didn't have a scholarship opportunity and we didn't want to penalize her for that - but it also didn't seem fair to D1 for us to spend twice as much on her sister. We filled out our FAFSA and Profile figuring something would be better than nothing. To our delight, D2 received financial aid that puts her cost very close to that of her sister - at least for next year.</p>