<p>Does anyone know about getting a nomination to more than one service academy? My dream is to attend West Point but at the same time, I have to be realistic... Admission into WP is tough(to say the least). If I didn't get into Wp, my hope would be to go to USMAPS, but if that didn't work out, another academy. Is it likely to get nominations to more than one academy?</p>
<p>I think that depends on two things: 1) How amazing you are and 2) How competitive your region is. Several who post on this site have noms (and appointments) to more than one academy. My son has noms to two, one appointment in hand and another on the way. Our region is not as competitive as some; yet, it's not a gimme to get two either. Also, he is a recruited athlete. That plays into the equation as well.</p>
<p>Thanks, I'm pretty sure that I won't be recruited for athletics, but do you know if you can be recruited for other things ( like band) or club sports(such as martial arts)?</p>
<p>Each MOC has their own opinion on giving multiple noms. Depends somewhat on the state / district you are from too - if there are lots of candidates similarly qualified from your district and MOC can only nominate 10 per slate, you would be less likely to obtain a multiple nom. If there are only a few candidates from your area then you may be more apt to get a multiple nomination. Some MOC's make you select just one academy. Others will give multiple sometimes (depending on the other candidates and the breakdown of what academies they are interested in). So, there is a lot of variability.</p>
<p>Would anyone suggest that I apply to different MOC for different academies. I am alsomst guarenteed my Congressman for West Point. Should I apply to Schumer for Navy and Hillary Clinton for Navy( or West Point just for a backup).</p>
<p>If you are aiming for class of 2012 you are probably to late to try for another MOC. I presume you are talking about your rep and your senators because you can't get a nom from a MOC outside of your district/state. Some MOC's won't let you switch preference from one academy to another once you finish the application at their office. If your plans are class of 2012 - check to see deadlines with MOCs (probably passed). If WP is your first choice (sounds like it is from your earlier post as it is your "dream") then would you be happy at another SA? All SA's are vert selective - WP is no more selective than the others. If WP truly is your dream be sure admissions and your MOC knows your determination and willingness to go prep.</p>
<p>"I am alsomst guarenteed my Congressman for West Point."</p>
<p>Just wanted to clarify, have you been given a nomination to the academy by your congressman? If so, have you seen the list of their nominations and the bracket in which you have been placed? I was recently triple qualified and I also received a nomination from my congressman. I live in North Carolina and I'm sure I don't have a "guarantee" into the academy based on my district. Unfortunately, I’m still unsure of my chances for appointment to the military academy. </p>
<p>I was just wondering how it could be, "gaurenteed," in your case.</p>
<p>My Congressman doesn't do a principle nomination, he puts all of his nominees on an equal playing field and lets WP select who they want. There is no order to his nominations. He just lists the 10 nomiees in a random order. I know that not enough people from my district apply for the nomination to WP. I am not sure at all of my appointment to the academy, I am just pretty sure that I'll get a nomination from my congressman, given the circumstances. Sorry, if i mislead you, I didn't mean guarentee in a literal sense.</p>
<p>There is no guarantee of getting an appt. just b/c you have a nom, however with ea. nom you increase your chances, since there is more freedom for the SA to assign. </p>
<p>Ram is right, for NC, Dole even wrote that her list is sent in alphabetically, so there is no prin or rack & stack. Burr doesn't meet until the 5th and my guess is he will do a rack & stack based on interviews. Our congressman has not releasd his results yet, but he does give a primary, not a princ. Thus, even though s has 1 nom from a sen., the other 2 noms will give the academy more freedom, but in no way would 3 noms guarantee him anything.</p>
<p>"My Congressman doesn't do a principle nomination, he puts all of his nominees on an equal playing field and lets WP select who they want."
WP is not free to choose anyone they want from the list. Your Congressman uses the competitive method which means that the candidate on his list who is fully qualified with the highest WCS is offered admission.</p>
<p>"Thus, even though s has 1 nom from a sen., the other 2 noms will give the academy more freedom".
It is my understanding that WP admissions only have more freedom in assigning nomination sources if the candidate is eligible to "win" an appointment in more than one nomination pool. </p>
<p>"Our congressman has not releasd his results yet, but he does give a primary, not a princ." Can you explain the difference between a primary and a principal nominee? I have always thought of them as the same. The three nomination methods are: competitive, principal with competing alternates and principal with numbered alternates.</p>
<p>Sen Dole's letter stated she does not rank and places the noms in by alphabetical so there is no ranking and WP choses the candidate from the list. Our Rep has stated that he gives a primary, i.e. my choice, but since it is not principal the SA is not by law required to take that candidate. Thus, he has stated who his choice is but the academy can select someone else. Not every MOC gives a principal, and it is rare when they do b/c this would force the academy to take that candidate. I am not sure of Burr, since s's interview is next weekend. Our guess is he will do principal with numbered.
As you can see for NC, are MOC's submit their lists in completely different styles.</p>
<p>Also if you have 3 noms, this would allow the SA to chose which cadet will be charged to which source. That is why they said go for as many as you can.</p>
<p>From the Congressional Guide:</p>
<p>There are three methods of nomination which may be
used by Members of Congress. They are: competitive,
principal with competing alternates, and principal with
numbered alternates. Members of Congress may use
any of these methods at their discretion. Regardless
of the nominating method and means of evaluation
used, it is strongly encouraged that a full slate of
ten nominations be submitted for each vacancy. A
higher number of nominees increases the quality of the
incoming academy class.
<em>Competitive Nomination</em>
This is the method of nomination favored by the
academies and used by most Members of Congress
(approximately 70-75 percent). The Member of
Congress submits to an academy an unranked slate of
up to ten nominees for each vacancy. The candidates
are then ranked in order of merit in accordance with
the specific academy system. The most highly qualified
is selected for an offer of admission (an appointment)
to fill the vacancy. If the Member has more than one
vacancy, ten nominees may be submitted for each
vacancy (two vacancies: 20 unranked nominees,
three vacancies: 30 nominees, etc.). The academy
then selects the best of the qualified nominees to fill
each of the available vacancies. Again, it is strongly
encouraged that members nominate as many young
men and women as possible for each vacancy, as it
enhances the quality of the candidate pool.
<em>Principal with Competing Alternates</em>
This method provides for designation of a principal
nominee by the Member of Congress. The other nine
unranked nominees are submitted to the academy for
evaluation and compete as alternates. If the principal
is fully qualified (academics, medical and physical
aptitude), he or she will be appointed and will fill
the vacancy. Note that this method does not take
into account the quality of the other nominees if the
principal nominee is fully qualified. On the other hand,
if the principal does not qualify, the alternates then
compete for the vacancy. Selection at this point is based
on merit as determined by the evaluation and ranking of
the alternates by the service academy.
<em>Principal with Numbered Alternates</em>
Under this method, the principal nominee is
designated and the alternate nominees are ranked in
order of preference by the Member of Congress. If
fully qualified, the principal nominee receives the
appointment to fill the vacancy. If the principal nominee
does not qualify, then the first alternate is considered
for the appointment and so on. In effect, the highest designated nominee who is fully qualified for entrance
is appointed to fill the vacancy.</p>
<p>If a candidate does not win an appointment directly, they are placed on the national waiting list and compete on that list for an appointment.</p>
<p>Also if you have 3 noms, this would allow the SA to chose which cadet will be charged to which source. That is why they said go for as many as you can. </p>
<p>Yes, but the candidate would have to be "top dog" in more than one pool for the academy to be able to choose which MOC to assign the appointment to. The reason the academy encourages candidates to apply to all of their nomination sources is twofold: 1. it gives them some leeway in how nomination sources are assigned if the candidate wins an appointment in more than one nomination pool; 2. it increases the candidates chances of winning an appointment by allowing him/her to compete in more than one nomination pool.</p>
<p>The academy
then selects the best of the qualified nominees to fill
each of the available vacancies. Again, it is strongly
encouraged that members nominate as many young
men and women as possible for each vacancy, as it
enhances the quality of the candidate pool.</p>
<p>I am the 1st to say I am only going with how the admissions rep has explained it to us. That with ea. nom, the academy has more freedom to how they will assign the nom. i.e if 2 candidates have the same rec, but 1 has 2 noms, they can give the other nom to the 2nd candidate, this way both get in, instead of just one. Also our rep does not give principal, he gives primary, giving a slate in his rack and stack order so it woulld be competitve, but has said who he wants, yet keeping the academy free. I have read through many other sites/threads that the candidate has been told I did not give a principal, however you are my number 4. </p>
<p>I might be wrong, but in essence than why wouldn't everyone just give a principal since the MOC sees the whole package anyway, except for CFA and that would go to the top dog. It seems like a futile exercise submitting a list knowing who will be number 1 and not giving it</p>
<p>Bulletandpima - I admit that I don't understand your argument. I guess we can agree to disagree?</p>
<p>This excerpt from the Congressional guide explains why most MOCs use the Competitive method:
Years ago, Members of Congress used the principal
with numbered alternates method because the law
specified this method. After expansion of the service
academies (1964-1968), Members of Congress were
allowed ten nominations for every vacancy. Today,
about one congressional sponsor in four is using the
principal method. Most Members favor the use of the
competitive method. The advantages of the competitive
method are:
First: The more competitive the method of
selecting and evaluating nominees, the more likely
the individual selected for appointment will be
the best qualified. In the case of principal nominees
designated by Members of Congress, for example, a
minimally-qualified designated principal nominee must
be offered the Member’s appointment, even though one
or more of the Member’s alternate nominees may be
far better qualified. Use of the competitive nomination
method ensures that the top-ranked, best-qualified
nominee is offered admission.
Second: Use of competitive methods would
appear to have a distinct advantage for Members
of Congress by eliminating the requirement for the
Member of Congress to rank one constituent over
another. Every candidate has an equal chance based
on merit and eliminates any perception of political
influence. Most candidates and their parents recognize this fact.</p>
<p>"I might be wrong, but in essence than why wouldn't everyone just give a principal since the MOC sees the whole package anyway, except for CFA and that would go to the top dog. It seems like a futile exercise submitting a list knowing who will be number 1 and not giving it"</p>
<p>b&p,</p>
<p>The MOC's see the application materials applicants are required to submit for a nomination from that particular MOC. Although there is overlap, this is not the same information included in the WP Admissions file, many of which may not even be complete yet. Also, the nomination sources do not have Whole Candidate Scores - even for the completed Admissions files. The WCS is the criteria used to select candidates from the NWL. This is the reason candidates are asked to continue updating their files with information that may increase their score, placing them higher on the list.</p>
<p>What I meant by that is our MOC's in NC asked for the exact same things, in some cases it was more essays. I am fully aware of the WCS, but theoretically if your MOC is sitting with the exact SAT, ACT, transcripts, same teacher recs + personal recs and your resume, the only thing missing is your CFA. I understand the updating of files, but in some cases there is nothing to update. Our s has 1370, a 33, his gpa will not change until end of Jan since we are on semesters. His ec's will not change.</p>
<p>I think it goes back to every state is different, I am only speaking from our s's experience. His MOC's (NC) files mirror what was submitted to the SA's.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>However, the MOC does not know to what weight each item in the package will be weighed by the academy admissions dept. There is no advantage to the MOC selecting a primary candidate but there are potential pitfalls. According to academy literature, 75%-80% of the MOCs allow the SAs to make the final choice.</p>
<p>b&p -
Also consider this - when Admissions assigns points in the WCS they look at your transcript. They have alot of experience in deciphering high school transcripts which are not the same from school to school. Admissions officers are just that - professionals at getting a clear picture of each candidate.</p>
<p>MOC's are not educational professionals. They are busy being Congressional representatives and Senators. Even though it may appear to be easy to condense an admissions packet into a quantitative figure - I would be more comfortable having a professional do it than one who may or may not be familiar with all the nuances involved.</p>
<p>Also, submitted 7th semester transcripts does update the file - the WCS can change. Many high schools even re-rank the senior class in January.
Some kids win academics or athletic awards/honors or competitions during their senior year and those surely should be submitted.</p>