<p>Hi, I'm a rising junior bassoonist and I'm set on going into performance. I was wondering how much academics will affect admissions into really good universities (Yale, University of Michigan, University of Toronto...) even though I'm going to be a music major and focusing 85% of my time on my instrument.</p>
<p>It depends on the school. Yale does not offer an undergraduate degree in performance, therefore, your experience as a bassoonist will only make you stand out if you have solid to excellent academics and test scores. </p>
<p>UMichigan on the other hand, does have a school of music and does offer a performance degree, thus academics may be less important in the admissions process relative to how well you perform during your audition.</p>
<p>molto- </p>
<p>Welcome. As a performance major, it's all about the audition. For the schools such as Michigan, Oberlin, Indiana Bloomington, Eastman, Rice, Peabody, Hartt, along with others offering a conservatory experience within a university setting, you have to be accepted at both the school and the conservatory. </p>
<p>There's a fairly recent discussion of some of the questions and experiences here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=356603&page=2&highlight=academics%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=356603&page=2&highlight=academics</a></p>
<p>I'd suggest you also read the two sticky threads under Featured Discussions at the top of this page. Both offer a wealth of information about the process.</p>
<p>If you're still trying to formulate a list of schools, there are plenty here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=6280%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=6280</a></p>
<p>Also, here's 2 recent threads regarding bassoon performance that might have useful info <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=368702&highlight=bassoon%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=368702&highlight=bassoon</a> and <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=363507&highlight=bassoon%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=363507&highlight=bassoon</a></p>
<p>Violadad's statement, "you have to be accepted at both the school and the conservatory" can be a little misleading where Oberlin is concerned. The conservatory and college at Oberlin have separate admissions departments and it is possible to be accepted by and matriculate at the conservatory without even applying to the college. In fact, well more than half of the the conservatory students do exactly that. There is some consideration given to academics by the conservatory admissions department because conservatory students take electives in the college, but the audition is still probably 80% or more of the audition. </p>
<p>There are even cases of people applying to both conservatory and college for the double degree program who have been accepted by the conservatory and not the college. Such students may still attend the conservatory and take their electives in the college</p>
<p>I stand corrected and bow to our resident expert on Oberlin.</p>
<p>Bassdad, just curious if you know: is the conservatory only admit at Oberlin a BM, or is it a certificate/artist's diploma type of program?</p>
<p>Also a correction on Eastman. If you only want to get a BM at Eastman, the audition is the most important thing. Academics are considered but you don't need to be stellar, just reasonably good academically. If you want to do a BA at Rochester, it is a seperate admission process. </p>
<p>Also at Rice, the academic standards are somewhat lower for the music school than they are for the other schools. At Rice, you have to be admitted to the music school before they will even look at your academics.</p>
<p>violadad's mention of a certificate program reminded me that I had a question about that. A friend of my son is starting at one of the most renowned conservatories (in voice) and is going for a certificate, so I just now looked on the conservatory website and found:</p>
<p>"Students may choose to pursue a diploma course of study, which is the same as the bachelor's curriculum minus the humanities core and humanities elective requirements; the diploma represents recognition of accomplishment in the field of music, but does not carry with it the rights and privileges of a college degree."</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to go that route, I wonder? It seems risky to me, but perhaps it's a way to finish sooner? This young man is not a scholar but is certainly a decent student, and has a fantastic, rich bass (but has only recently--in the past 18 months--taken voice lessons and discovered that he wants to sing for a career).</p>
<p>neumes- The certificate program route can be a path for those with the musical talents and skills that can't meet or don't want the full rigors of a bachelors. Perhaps a career choice in the case of an exceptional sometimes (fairly young) performer needing refinement and intensive training before embarking on an already promising (or established) career. </p>
<p>It's also a means for those lacking some of the abilities to fully succeed within a program that has academic as well as artistic requirements. There are those that are highly gifted musically that would be hard pressed to cope with or meet non music academic requirements.</p>
<p>Most of the certificate programs tend to be of three (sometimes two) year duration. This may also be of some financial advantage as well for those hard pressed to cover a four year undergrad degree.</p>
<p>It can also be a path to acknowledged proficiency with another instrument or music discipline such as conducting.</p>
<p>The graduate professional diploma (GPD) is a higher level, usually a two year program, much akin (and often in addition) to a masters, signifying intensive immersion in a specific area. Usually it is performance related, such as string quartet, period music, or a unique or early instrument.</p>
<p>Thanks, violadad, very interesting to hear of the many ways of carving a path to performing!</p>
<p>Students who attend Oberlin conservatory but not the college have several options, including the Bachelor of Music, the Performance Diploma, the Masters Program in Historical Performance and the Artist Diploma. Most go for the BM. Oberlin is also talking about restoring a Masters program in Music Ed.</p>
<p>In my prior post, I meant to say that the audition is about 80% of the admission decision, not of the audition.</p>
<p>Well, right now I'm trying to balance school (a full courseload including 3 APs) and practicing enough and I was considering cutting down on the academics a bit, but was afraid it would hurt my chances at some schools I was considering. Thanks for all of your replies- this will really help me shape my academic schedule next semester and year.</p>
<p>Should I push my son to take the SATs again for Oberlin Conservatory and Eastman? He has a 3.2 GPA (may go up) 3.6 weighted; 1180 SATs w/out writing. I've been thinking it would be a good idea if he pushed his verbal score over 600...But who likes to take the SATs?</p>
<p>mom4- Take a peek up at post#4 for Bassdad's comment on Oberlin. I believe Eastman has a similar policy. You should be able to get an idea of where son's grades/SATS fall for conservatory admits from the respective websites.</p>
<p>For both schools, the emphasis is heavily towards the audition.</p>
<p>We have heard that the academic record/scores can be a tipping point; although the audition carries the most weight, between two strong auditioners, the one with the better record will get the nod. A really poor record, apparently, can result in rejection, even at stand alone conservatories (3.2 is not a really poor record though, mom4).</p>
<p>The average SAT scores in the Oberlin Conservatory for last year were about 650 in each category, according to their institutional research website. Of course, average means that there were scores above and below that.</p>
<p>Mom4 - Academically, he will be fine for Eastman. I think their average old SAT score was in the 1200 range. If he wants to do a double degree, he will need to be accepted at both College of Arts and Sciences and Eastman, though, and he will likely need higher stats for CAS. However, as an Eastman student, he can take any classes he wants in the CAS.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input. I had trouble finding the conservatory-only statsistics. I think he'll give the SATs one more try, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. He's focused on his music, and that's that!</p>
<p>There are a couple of important SAT thresholds at Oberlin you should know about. Those who score less than 580 on the verbal section (not the new writing section) have to take a writing proficiency course. In order to be admitted to the Music Ed program, verbal and math scores must total at least 1200. (The latter would not apply to those interested in a performance degree unless they wanted to do both performance and Music Ed.)</p>
<p>The data mamenyu cites may be found at <a href="http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/sche25/%5B/url%5D">http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/sche25/</a>
toward the bottom of the page.</p>
<p>A variety of other data (useful or otherwise) may be found at <a href="http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/cds/2006/%5B/url%5D">http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/cds/2006/</a>
and at <a href="http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/%5B/url%5D">http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/</a>
under the Electronic DataBook link.</p>
<p>As others have said, a 3.2/1180 will probably not disqualify him a priori, but those credentials could be a tipping point if he is not near the top of the heap at the auditions. How many times has he taken the SATs? If he has a reasonable chance of getting better SAT scores AND has only taken them once AND taking them again will not greatly take away from his practice time, then I would suggest giving it another try. If he has already taken them a few times, you may have already reached the point of diminishing returns.</p>
<p>Although they are "standardized" tests, some people just do better on one than the other. It's worth a shot if you live in an area where both are offered.</p>
<p>However, make sure that you check the "wrong answer" rules. IIRMC, on the SATs, you pay a penalty for every wrong answer, but you DO NOT for the ACTs so a person taking the ACT should leave no questions unanswered. HOWEVER THIS MAY BE THE OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH SO CHECK!!</p>
<p>I have considered the ACTs but don't think he should spend the time on it--time is precious this fall and it would be a whole new set of rules to remember. His body of knowledge in the sciences and social sciences is weak, too.</p>
<p>That was his first and only SAT so I think if I can get him to do a few problems a day for the next few weeks, there's a chance he'll push up his verbal score. That Oberlin info is fascinating!</p>
<p>Thanks again</p>