<p>Time for a “come to Jesus” talk. Can you enlist a third party with “children in college” experience?
You and she need to sit down and lay out the numbers. She needs to realize what the cost will be to her and down the line when she is paying off loans while her peers are buying their first condo.</p>
<p>Strike a compromise - if she is on free/reduced lunch she can get a fee waiver from her guidance counselor. Let her apply to what ever schools she wishes. Also, tell her to pick a state school. If she won’t pick, then pick it for her.
I made my kids pick a state school. My youngest was not interested.
What I did was so inappropriate but I will tell you anyway. After much discussion, I was finally fed up and I downloaded the paper application for a state university. One evening while she and her boyfriend were watching TV, I sat down and filled out the application (no essay was required, fortunately!). I wrote a check and told my daughter to sign the application. She did. I put it all in the envelope with a request for transcript form and gave the whole thing to her boyfriend to drop off in the GC’s office. He cooperated.
She was accepted, but did not go. I was nice to have it the back pocket.</p>
<p>You are the parent, she is the child–unless she has secretly found a hoard of leprechaun gold or unearthed the remains of a Spanish galleon, you are the one calling the shots here. Make it clear to her that if she only applies to colleges that cost more than what you will contribute–a decision YOU will make based on your income, not based on your daughter or your friends’ opinions–then SHE will be making up the difference. And if SHE cannot afford to make up the difference, she will not be going anywhere but the local community college.</p>
<p>The silver lining is that community colleges can provide a great first two years of education and are usually very affordable.</p>
<p>Do not, not, not cosign for any crazy loans. $20,000 of debt a year x four years = WAY TOO MUCH DEBT.</p>
<p>The absent father is a wildcard here, as it is in too many situations. At many schools, you cannot just conveniently ignore any assets he might have. For starters, here’s a link to some basic info about divorce and financial aid: [FinAid</a> | Answering Your Questions | Divorce and Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/questions/divorce.phtml]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/questions/divorce.phtml)</p>
<p>On the bright side, it sounds like the OP’s D at least has a fairly clear idea of what she wants (which is more than many seniors can say). It appears she is attracted to mid-sized, selective urban universities. So try to expand the list of schools like that to include some that are less selective and expensive. A school like Chicago may well offer a generous aid package, but only if it accepts her. Her SATs are respectable but a bit low for Chicago (not necessarily low enough to rule out a shot, but then there’s a lot we don’t know about such as her course rigor.)</p>
<p>People have given wonderful advice; I just want to underline once again two pieces of it:
Her father’s income will likely highly effect the FA she receives whether he is in the picture or not; and you MUST show her one of those calculators that break down what she would be paying monthly on large loans while trying to get by in her first job.</p>
<p>Her 2010 SAT might be a tad low for the $24k at Tulane. Son got it with a 2300. But, even if she did get it, she would still have a $100k shortfall. Tulane isn’t going to meet that shortfall need with free money. She’d still have to borrow $100k and that’s just not a reasonable option. </p>
<p>** For a good financial safety…and an EZ app process for school and scholarships**</p>
<p>A school like Miss St would give her a lot of merit money; probably all of her tuition and very possibly a full-ride. Miss St is one of the few flagship schools that gives generous $$ to out-of-state students. It’s a pretty campus with many strong programs - especially in health sciences, engineering, and math. She’d also likely be awarded department scholarships. She’d also be a strong contender for a competitive scholarship. She could end up with nearly a free ride. </p>
<p>Kids from my kids’ Catholic HS go to Miss St all the time because the merit money is so good there. And, it’s a very beautiful campus - some nice dorms, too, for honors kids. Last year, 20% of son’s graduating class went OOS to Miss St because the money was too good to pass up.</p>
<p>The first two scholarships are ones that she’d likely be automatically awarded. One covers the OOS portion of tuition, and the other would likely cover all of the in-state portion because the scholarship states that it “starts at” $4k and her stats are much higher than the stated requirements (in-state tuition is about $5k at MSU.). </p>
<p>But, your D would also be a likely candidate for department and competitive scholarships, too …see *** below</p>
<p>Four-year award (eight semesters)
Priority Date: February 1
Award: 100% scholarship for the non-resident portion of tuition
Criteria:
Minimum 24 ACT (1090 SAT)
Scholarship GPA of 3.0
Excellent leadership and service activities</p>
<p>*May be awarded in addition to the Freshman Academic Excellence Scholarship. See below</p>
<p>Freshman Academic Excellence </p>
<p>Four-year award (eight semesters)
Priority Date: February 1
Award: Starting at $4,000
Criteria:
Minimum 24 ACT (1090 SAT)
Scholarship GPA of 3.0
Excellent leadership and service activities</p>
<p>Miss St Competitive Scholarships</p>
<p>** Distinguished Scholarships (This is a very good scholarship!!! It includes tuition, dorm, and other costs!!! It’s “competitive” but I know MANY students who’ve been awarded this with good stats.) **</p>
<p>** Priority Date: December 1 **
Award:
Up to $34,000 over four years ($8,500/year)
On-campus, double-occupancy residence hall accommodations for four years
One-time $1,500 Educational Enrichment Scholarship for qualified educational pursuits, such as study abroad
Undergraduate Research Fellowships, valued at $4,000, over two summers ($2,000
Non-Resident Scholarship (if a non- resident)
Criteria:
Minimum 29 ACT or 1280 SAT
Outstanding high school academic record with a scholarship GPA of 3.5
Exceptional high school and community leadership</p>
<p>Departmental Scholarships
Departmental and College Scholarships
Top of Page
Departments and colleges within the university administer their own departmental scholarship programs. Students who have chosen a major are encouraged to contact the department in their major areas of study regarding scholarship opportunities.
See link for details…[url=<a href=“http://admissions.msstate.edu/scholarships/additional/index.php]Additional”>http://admissions.msstate.edu/scholarships/additional/index.php]Additional</a> MSU Scholarship Opportunities || Office of Admissions and Scholarships || Mississippi State University<a href=“scroll%20down%20on%20page”>/url</a></p>
<p>Architecture, Art & Design
College of Arts and Sciences
College of Business & Industry
College of Education
College of Engineering
Forest Resources
College of Vet Med
College of Ag and Life Sciences </p>
<hr>
<p>I don’t know what her M+Cr score is. If it’s high enough, Alabama would give her free tuition. Otherwise, she’d get 2/3 tuition or less.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that! I didn’t know if a student who is 18 could be the sole signature of such loans. Well, her D needs to be told, “I won’t sign, so other options must be on the table.”</p>
<p>I don’t agree with it because I believe it is from ignorance, but I understand it.</p>
<p>Our local school district doesn’t have great Guidance. The so called “experts” in the Guidance office never take financial matters into consideration. They NEVER ask about non-custodial parents so the student is NEVER informed about the pitfalls of private school financial aid. The teachers are mostly state school grads & a student like the OPs probably would not respect them.</p>
<p>Our public school is not a big feeder for college. Working class town & many folks think college is a waste of money. When the school have kids with your daughter’s stats they just assume acceptances with merit. The problem is the AMOUNT of merit. $5,000 at a $40,000 school doesn’t count to me. </p>
<p>THIS KID NEEDS AN ADULT BESIDES MOM TO GIVE HER THE LOW DOWN ON THE FA/MERIT. It still may fall on deaf ears, but you need to present her the hard cold facts of non-custodial dad involvement required & amount of debt.</p>
<p>OP – What is your Community College like? Rather than fight with your daughter you may want to provide her the facts, let her do her thing & be prepared for CC come fall. If she views the state schools on the same level as CC then it may be best to avoid the drama now and have the “financial” safety back up be the transfer from CC route.</p>
<p>What about Loyola University (Maryland) as an admission and financial safety. </p>
<p>It meets 100% of need for all students. It is not too small (3700 students). It accepts 69% of applicants, average GPA is 3.46, SAT mid-50% range is 560-650 for math, 540-630 for critical reading.</p>
<p>I had thought it used only the FAFSA, but I was mistaken - I think Loyola in New Orleans and Chicago use only the FAFSA, but Loyola in Maryland uses the PROFILE as well. Too bad about that part. You could call the financial aid office, explain your situation, and ask how they would handle the non-custodial PROFILE.</p>
<p>^^^ how is that a financial safety? A financial safety doesn’t require taking out student loans. Does Loyola Maryland meet “need” with free money and no loans? (Does any Loyola do that?) Meeting 100% of need does not mean free money.</p>
<p>She might qualify for some merit money, but Loyola M does put loans in its packages.</p>
<p>A financial safety is a school where the student will likely be admitted and…
a person can afford to pay all costs out of pocket.</p>
<p>or…</p>
<p>2) the student will be awarded an automatic scholarship that will pay for all/most costs; any remaining costs can be paid out of pocket.</p>
<p>or…</p>
<p>3) the school awards “no loan” F/A, and the student’s income is so low that she’d qualify for full needs met with no loans.</p>
<p>" A financial safety doesn’t require taking out student loans. "</p>
<p>That’s a very stringent financial safety particularly since the average college student in our country will take out a total of $17,000 in loans before graduating.</p>
<p>If someone has an EFC of 0, it would be difficult to attend even community colleges without loans.</p>
<p>When it comes to applying to college, the OP and her D also need to consider transportation costs. Even the most generous schools provide financial aid that covers travel home only at the beginning and end of the year and in Dec. </p>
<p>If the D doesn’t go to college within an easy driving distance, her mom may not be able to go to drive her to college, attend family weekends, and even may have difficulty getting to the D’s graduation. The D may not be able to afford to come home for Thanksgiving, spring break, and long weekends. Some campuses even close for those times, so it can be very hard for students who can’t afford to go elsewhere.</p>
<p>This is why most students in this country attend colleges within 250 miles of home.</p>
<p>My child, who is now at the U of Chicago, also applied to BU and GW a few years ago. It is impossible to say how things will turn out. She had similar stats to your D (but a slightly lower GPA) and was accepted at Chicago and BU, but waitlisted at GW. Chicago now has a special scholarship program which you might fall into. Under a certain family income, tuition is free or in some cases 50%. So if your child is accepted, she might qualify for this. My child also applied as a safety/match to the State University Honors program and would have gone there if not accepted at Chicago. Probably would be good for your child to pick a real safety, but it is her choice and if rejected by all ( which is always a possibility in this world) she will have to have a year off. As long as she understands this, she should do what she wants.</p>
<p>Bundle, I feel for you, because it sounds like senior year is turning out to be a very tense one at your house! </p>
<p>I really liked the suggestion that your dd talk to someone about the realities of her situation other than you. </p>
<p>2090 is her SAT, but what is the total of CR + M? Those are the scores most schools look at. And 3.9 GPA doesn’t mean much without a context for it. What is her class rank (percentage)? Does she have any hooks? </p>
<p>The privates are going to look at the non-custodial parent’s income. If it was easy to dodge responsibility, the system would be abused in order to get more financial aid. As it is, your state of NJ appears to expect both parents to contribute towards college costs. Make sure to read the link posted earlier about Financial Aid and divorce.</p>
<p>My son didn’t get to attend his top choice colleges because the finaid wasn’t enough. He understood from the beginning of the process that we could only pay for what an instate college would cost. He ended up getting a full ride to a Top 20 LAC, and that is where he is currently a freshman. (The money we save over four years of undergraduate will be given to him for law school.)</p>
<p>just want to reiterate what Olymom said that without the FA offer infront of you you really don’t know what you are dealing with.</p>
<p>D’s #1 pick was, we thought, out of reach with the sticker price of 50K but as it turned out her FA Award made the total comensurate with what it would cost for her to attend her mommy school a UC campus. We didn’t know until April that her #1 would be affordable.</p>
<p>If taking out loans is an aspect of a “financial safety” then many schools would become “safeties” just because there is a loan out there for the asking.</p>
<p>A Financial Safety certainly wouldn’t be a private school with competitive scholarships and student loans. That might result in a situation with $100k or more in student loans. That shouldn’t be a financial safety in anyone’s book except Donald Trumps. But, of course, he wouldn’t need such a loan. LOL</p>
<p>A private school that “might” be a possibility because it has some competitive top sholarships (not automatic) could be considered a “possible financial option,” but it’s not a financial safety, since not winning the scholarship would make it unaffordable. Of course, once that top scholarship was “won,” that school could quickly be moved to the financial safety column if the unfunded portions were now affordable. :)</p>
<p>Over the years, there have been many postings on this board describing what a financial safety is. Curmy’s description is probably one of the best (if not the best). It may be in his old “Swallows to Capistrano” thread…I’ll go look for it. Anyway, a financial safety would not be one which requires thousand and thousands of loans. </p>
<p>I’ll “back-pedal” a bit and say a very small loan each year, adding up to no more that $15-20k by graduation might be ok for a financial safety. But anything that would likely financially strap the graduate for several years shouldn’t be part of any financial safety plan.</p>
<p>On my way to look for Curmy’s definition of a financial safety…maybe I’ll PM him and ask for it directly… :)</p>
<p>It appears the OP lives in NJ as do we. None of my kids would apply to Rutgers although we have some relatives attending. An early poster mentioned TCNJ. My youngest girl applied there as her safety 2 years ago and learned that rolling admissions meant she was already closed out of a science/premed major. TCNJ suggested she apply for another major and expect she could transfer later into premed due to the dropout rate. She didn’t reapply.</p>
<p>I don’t think most people feel that a financial safety must be a school that will not require any student loans. Our job as parents is to help kids understand the need to keep the amount borrowed at a manageable level. Stafford loan limits are a reasonable amount of debt for a student to take on in order to obtain an education.</p>
<p>I’m a little reluctant to post more here, since at this point we may just be confusing the op. But yes, the “other parent” is a wild card and in order to establish a realistic EFC that issue needs to be straightened out. Hard to proceed without that being done.
A 2010 SAT and 3.9 cum would in range for many top colleges. Connecticut College, Lehigh, Lafayette, Davidson, Colby, Vassar, Boston College and others. Many of these colleges offer very generous finaid and some offer no-loans. Both GW and Chicago also have very generous aid, Chicago I think is no-loan and GW has been moving in that direction. Sure, we don’t know the level of the students classes (AP’s etc) and we don’t know about a “hook” but certainly through scores alone this student is a credible candidate at many top schools and would stand a good chance of acceptance at GW. I would think in NJ, both Rutgers and TCNJ should be on her list. But again without a fairly accurate EFC it’s just speculation. That would seem to be Mom’s first task.</p>
But, of course, he wouldn’t need such a loan. LOL</p>