<p>Yes, I agree, a kid (or parent for that matter) coming out after 4 years with 200K in debt is insanity, but it happens. Definitely more often for grad school. It would be terrible if it didn’t pay off. But I think most of us, no matter the income level, if our kid were to get into Harvard or Princeton for only 10K a year would say go for it, it’s easy to speak differently when it’s just theoretical. I guarantee you if my son had to pay for college himself, he’d be going to the cheapest school in town…the local community college.</p>
<p>Mom2, that is for undergraduate tuition. I don’t even want to look at what the loan rates are for graduate school, no doubt they increase them. But if people keep paying the money, taking the loans, they’ll just keep raising the tuition and the loan amounts accordingly. You know though, I can’t help but wonder if my kids would have been alot better off if we would have taken the money we spent for private schools their entire lives and just invested it. If I had known it was going to set me back so much, I don’t think we would have let them do that for one single day.</p>
<p>“Then 60% took out loans and the average debt was: $24,000”</p>
<p>I, for one, agree with this interpretation.</p>
<p>I often see numbers like GW’s $16,975 turn up, consistent with a popular cap of $5,000 or less per year for four years of undergrad student indebtedness, commonly considered reasonable or expected, and not such an onerous burden.</p>
<p>Call up GW, make an appointment for an interview/tour. Schedule a meeting with someone in finaid. You can take the Chinatown bus from NY or Phila to Washington for $20 or so. GW changed their finaid policy about 18 months ago and are attempting to meet full need with minimum loans. They also guarantee the same tuition for 4 years (but not housing costs). They are attempting to make a very expensive school in a very expensive location affordable for low income students. You need to ask them about the non-custodial parent issue, if you can’t clear that hurdle private schools are out. Ask them also about their ED policy with regard to financial hardship. Even without ED your D stands a decent chance of acceptance.</p>
<p>You also need to talk to your child’s guidance counselor and see how supportive the school will be with the process. They need to be aware that you are extremely low income. The school is the best contact for local scholarships and also for connections to instate universities for their scholarships. The guidance department should be able to provide the forms to waive all app fees and possible college board fees. Your D will need strong support from her GC. Especially if she decides to apply ED.</p>
<p>If you can clear up the non-custodial issue your D may be able to generate several affordable choices, if not, you’ll probably have to rely on the state college system, local commuter schools etc. IMO long distance solutions won’t work, there’s always extra expenses involved and at your income level you can’t afford any extra expense at all.</p>
<p>Vossron, I think your speculation on post 136 is correct but i am always suspicious about the numbers and a little confused by the breakdown. Average debt numbers are very difficult to obtain as it is never clear how much is stafford or Perkins or Plus or even private loans. Also the numbers tend to be several years behind - for the graduating class. (Sometimes colleges change their policies and render any analysis meaningless. GW in a good way most schools in the opposite direction.) Often even wealthy people borrow large amounts of money at very reasonable rates and that too schews the figures. But one thing is clear - that undergrad debt has been rising rapidly over the last ten years or so, from around 20 grand to closer to 30 grand today. The standard full need gov
loan package for non no loan privates is now around 29 grand. (19 in sub staffords, 8 in unsub and the rest in interest) Perkins loans are getting harder to find as the funds are limited and tied up with previous borrowers. Almost all low income students and their families have to borrow, it’s a question of how much and is it worth it?</p>
<p>PLEASE do not allow her to apply ED anywhere that does not meet full need. I do not think that GW meets full need. </p>
<p>I do believe the parent AND the school counselor need to sign the form for applying ED that indicates that the student will attend if offered admittance. REMEMBER the financial aid calculations are done by the school…so if the SCHOOL meets the need they calculate, it is not going to be a good thing to try to get out of that ED committment.</p>
<p>You’ve received some excellent advice here. Cast a decently wide net…and then have the ability to COMPARE the finances once all the acceptances and financial aid have come in…something you will not have the ability to do if the kiddo gets accepted ED.</p>
<p>It is unclear whether GW meets full need. I suggest calling them to find out the details of their finaid policy for low income apps. Not a bad idea for any private college, actually.</p>
<p>“it is not going to be a good thing to try to get out of that ED commitment”</p>
<p>If it’s a common app school, there’s no trying involved; the ED application is clear on that: you just say it’s not enough, and you’re released. Imagine if a school coerced a student into attending, the student then couldn’t pay the bill, and would then be expelled. The negative publicity would ruin the school, so it doesn’t happen.
<p>I’m with mom2collegekids: I also don’t like the idea of young adults having education debt. Paying $600 per month for a $50,000 loan is a significant chunk out of a new grad’s paycheck, unless that person somehow finds a job that pays serious money. I don’t know offhand what the average salary is of a new grad, but students who don’t think $600 is a big deal seem to forget about other debt they may have to pay, such as credit cards or auto loans. That can be over $1000 a month just on debt payments alone! At the age of 21 or 22. Therefore, I really don’t want my D to have to struggle with debt when she graduates. Plus, what if she can’t find a job that pays well?</p>
<p>I am aware of what the Common App states about ED if a college doesn’t offer a certain financial package. However, it seems vague to me the phrase “makes attendance possible.” My thinking was along the lines of mom2 in that if a school meets the total need, but the need includes, for instance, $25,000 a year in loans, then, technically, the school held up its end of the agreement; it made “attendance possible.” However, if the student or parent doesn’t want to borrow that much money, then they’re stuck, because they signed the ED agreement. (I admit that my limited legal knowledge comes from years of watching Law & Order. LOL) No ED. EA, however, is fine, as it’s nonbinding.</p>
<p>I haven’t read anything about GW’s need policy. I know that it’s not on any list of schools that have no-loan policies, and it is one of the more expensive schools in the country.</p>
<p>Momof2collegekids- The chart you posted is for the average debt of college students. The elite colleges will offer full aid for an admitted student from a single parent earning 33.000 a year. I still think the daughter should apply to some of the Ivy’s. She may not have overly stellar stats but this is a kid who has done very well in the income bracket of her home. I am not being disrespectful but this young lady has not had the benefits of funds to support the many ECs that kids applying to the elites have had. I believe she would be an excellent candidate for the Ivy’s and if the OP would like to PM me I would be happy to share some information. As I have said on other posts I have four children, three of whom are attending elite schools. Each of them have several friends that are receiving full aid or very close to it. These same kids have said that had they gone to state schools, they would have debt upon graduation. I just don’t think it would hurt to give it a shot. Remember this kid has not had the advantage of expensive SAT tutoring or coachs. She has accomplished her grades and scores by persevering and I think the payoff for her could be great.</p>
<p>Yes, well, nobody likes the idea of loans, but most schools don’t have the endowment to eliminate them. To be sure, it is by choice that loans are required by these schools, but it’s because they can stretch their aid dollars to support 10% to 20% more needy students. If you’re one of those additional students provided with most of the cost of your education, you probably think it’s a pretty good system.</p>
<p>“if a school meets the total need, but the need includes, for instance, $25,000 a year in loans”</p>
<p>No, that is not financial aid meeting need by federal definition; these loans are available to help a family meet its EFC if they want them.</p>
<p>“However, if the student or parent doesn’t want to borrow that much money, then they’re stuck, because they signed the ED agreement.”</p>
<p>No, they are not stuck. It is the family’s decision if the FA is sufficient, not the school’s. Read the NY Times article, read the Common App ED agreement. The student says thanks but no thanks, and the student is released. Really!</p>
<p>When my son was in high school, he made the comment, “Why did you waste so much money sending us to Catholic schools all these years?”</p>
<p>I told him…“Your grandparents went to Catholic schools, your parents went to Catholic schools, and there was no way that we weren’t going to do the same.” :)</p>
<p>But, in the long run, we don’t regret one cent. Our boys have done very well. Both had 4.7 GPAs, both ACT 33, one was NMF, one was the Val, the other one gave the grad speech, both entered college with 41 AP credits, both got great scholarships. </p>
<p>You have a good point. I didn’t know that ivies would consider someone in her situation as kind of “underprivileged” (no disrespect intended, either.) I thought that consideration would be more for kids who came from poorer schools, poorer neighborhoods, as well as lower income or “no-income” families.</p>
<p>Which ones might she have the best chance for acceptance?</p>
<p>Momma-three & mom2college kids: no disrespect taken. =)</p>
<p>Ivy League? I never really considered them, as I figured my D’s stats aren’t close to what they expect. (A 1390 SAT score is the 25th percentile for Harvard & Princeton, with super low acceptance rates of 8 and 10 percent, respectively, according to USNWR.) She even told me herself that she figured she had barely a chance.</p>
<p>Plus, the noncustodial parent financial info is required, and that’s not possible. I’m think I’m going to have to stick with schools that are FAFSA-only.</p>
<p>Anyway, the noncustodial parent financial info</p>
<p>Back to academics as a basis for choosing a college…</p>
<p>The D should take the “acceptance” rates with a grain of salt. Case Western, for instance has a very high rate because the applicants are self-selecting…they are very high-quality applicants who want to go to a highly-rated school in CLEVELAND (um, no disrespect intended.) </p>
<p>She should look at the avg. SAT/ACT scores at the schools, and also if there is an honors college (at the state schools) to see if she will find a peer group.</p>
<p>Also, what does she plan to major in? Many public universities that are lower ranked have pockets of really high-ranked, stellar majors…just have to find them. Then maybe she will get excited about attending a “lower-ranked” and affordable school.</p>
<p>Please don’t knock out Profile schools without asking them about the non-custodial parent form. Some schools require it, and even then, will waive it in certain situations. Please call the financial aid offices of the Profile schools that might be considered and ask them.</p>
<p>I’m not going to enter into the discussion about where D should apply and what financial id she is likely to get. But at the risk of restating some of what has gone before, I do think that one piece of advice that some are giving is simply bad. Waiting for April to have the very hard discussion strikes me as a recipe for making an unfortunate situation worse. As unpleasant as it is likely to be, you need to be very clear about the financial parameters of the decision NOW. You also need to impress upon D that even “full need” schools generally include substantial loans.</p>
<p>I’m pretty familiar with the merit packages at Rutgers, and she is probably going to get something in the $5000 to $7500 per year range. Don’t know about need-based aid there.</p>
<p>"I still think the daughter should apply to some of the Ivy’s. She may not have overly stellar stats but this is a kid who has done very well in the income bracket of her home. I am not being disrespectful but this young lady has not had the benefits of funds to support the many ECs that kids applying to the elites have had. I believe she would be an excellent candidate for the Ivy’s and if the OP would like to PM me I would be happy to share some information. :‘’</p>
<p>There’s nothing to suggest that the D would be an excellent candidate for Ivies. First, no one except perhaps multimillionaire donors’ kids with good stats are excellent candidates for Ivies. Just being poor and having a gpa at the bottom end of Ivies’ range isn’t going to give her a good chance or even a better than the dismal normal chances to any Ivies. </p>
<p>Her scores are low. Unless I’ve missed it, her mother hasn’t mentioned the D’s having exceptionally strong ECs or overcoming some kind of major challenges. Just being low income and having a high gpa isn’t enough to get into Ivies.</p>
<p>Unlike what an earlier poster implied, Ivies aren’t impressed by students whose affluent parents buy their ECs such as sending the applicant off to do so-called community service abroad through some expensive company. I know this because I’ve been an alum interviewer for an Ivy.</p>
<p>Ivies are very impressed by students who do things like this: on their own start service projects in their hometowns; work part time during the school year and full time during the summer and use the money to help support their families; have major family responsibilities such as being responsible for the care of siblings or aged relatives after school while parents are at work; have been homeless or been affected by another major challenge such as having a parent in prison, yet maintained a high gpa; have achieved statewide or national office in an EC – and have accomplished something major in that EC such as having been responsible for organizing a major project; write novels, start businesses or do other things on their own that are impressive; have done far more than’ typical in a school-based EC (As an example, a student I know was student government president at his high school, and through that position managed to get most of the high schools in our city involved in building a Habitat for Humanity house).</p>
<p>" Waiting for April to have the very hard discussion strikes me as a recipe for making an unfortunate situation worse. As unpleasant as it is likely to be, you need to be very clear about the financial parameters of the decision NOW. You also need to impress upon D that even “full need” schools generally include substantial loans."</p>
<p>I fully agree. I also think it’s a good idea --particularly with a stubborn offspring or an offspring who thinks somehow that money will fall out of the sky – to provide such information in writing. Let her know how much are you willing to provide in cash each year for her education and how much you are willing to co-sign each year for loans.</p>
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