My father will not let me visit colleges

Parents Forum
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<p>Michigan’s OOS rates are unusually expensive, and it doesn’t usually meet need for OOS students.</p>

<p>OP, congratulations to you and your family, sounds like you’re really on your way to working together :slight_smile: Keep in mind that schools which promise to meet need will usually include a self help portion as part of their package to meet your need - for example, if your EFC is $35K, and the cost of attendance is $50K, you have $15K in need but the school would likely give you $10K in grants and $5K in self help (mostly student loans, but possibly some work study); another component of self help might be an expectation of your contributing a certain amount in summer earnings.</p>

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<p>I personally would visit with my family CPA to figure out the tax ramifications of your Grandpa putting the 35k per year toward your tuition. I am just a student, and not a tax attorney or anything else who is in about the same situation so I can tell you what my family did.</p>

<p>Direct payment of tuition to the University is not considered taxable income on your part. Money given directly to you however to buy your books, pay rent, pay your car note, and all of the many small things that you need money for while in college IS however considered taxable income. </p>

<p>Your Grandfather of course can take the yearly $12k tax deduction from the IRS, however he could also make a one time gift of $60k to you and treat it as a 5 year gift. This might be more practical as (and i hate to say it) your whole future is riding on a person to pay for your college and what happens if something happens to your grandfather?</p>

<p>Nail down the specifics, try to get as much upfront money as possible from your grandfather. You read all of the time on these boards about how a relative who was footing the bill either died, got in a disagreement and stopped paying, or was using the purse strings in a manipulative fashion.</p>

<p>Once you have the money in your bank account or trust fund, you might decide to go to a much cheaper college like I did and use the remainder as a down payment on a house when you graduate.</p>

<p>TL;DR Get the specifics about how your Grandfather is going to pay for your college, and get it in writing.</p>

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<p>Did not read the whole thread. Just the 1st few posts. </p>

<p>But I gotta mostly agree with the thread starter’s dad. A college visit does not provide that much useful information, talking to alumni doesnt necessarily either (too small a sample, and often very biased -esp if the school helped set up the meet), and that college admissions at ALOT of schools is more a numbers game and less a “show interest” and get accepted situation. </p>

<p>With that said, it is a bit wierd he is not letting you visit campuses if you want to. But I completely understand him limiting the # of applications you send out, 5 is all you really need, especially since theyre so expensive. I’m sure he wouldnt stand in your way if you footed the bill yourself…</p>

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<p>Sounds like you’re a great negotiator!!!</p>

<p>Congrats!</p>

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<p>(Note: I haven’t read all the posts in this thread)
So I applied to 14 schools and I’m going to UPenn in the fall. Here are my thoughts on the application experience. I’m just sharing my personal experience, so please understand the subjectivity of the following info.</p>

<p>Honestly, there’s nothing wrong with applying to many reach schools. In terms of safeties and “i can get in if I keep up the good work” schools, narrow down BEFORE you apply. But for reach schools, there’s no problem applying to many, since the options tend to narrow themselves down. (I applied to 4 Ivies, got into one, waitlisted at one, denied from two. Problem solved.) I actually recommend applying to many reaches, because I almost didn’t apply to Penn thinking I wouldn’t get in. You never know. Ivies and such are unpredictable.</p>

<p>I REPEAT: DO NOT DROP YOUR REACHES!!! I had a 4.11 GPA, 32 ACT 1510/2310 SAT. White female. No hooks. Got into Penn CAS with a likely letter. I know my essay had a lot to do with it. So there’s definitely a chance for you! APPLY TO YOUR REACHES. YOU DON’T WANT TO LOOK BACK ON LIFE AND WONDER WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED HAD YOU APPLIED. (Which is why I applied to Harvard and got rejected. But at least I don’t have to die wondering.)</p>

<p>I visited a LOT of colleges before I applied. I didn’t learn much, except that Princeton’s small town atmosphere made me claustrophobic, and physically getting to Wellesley and some others is a pain in the rear. I ended up re-visiting Duke and Penn after I as accepted because it was between those 2. The SECOND visit (and the visit alone) made the decision for me. So I wouldn’t worry about visiting until you actually get accepted.</p>

<p>Someone suggested visiting local universities to get an idea of what you like/don’t before you apply. Good idea, I think. The variety of schools you’re considering is significant. Penn is a large university in an urban setting, with grad schools you can take classes in. Princeton is only undergrad, is set in a small town, and has other strengths than Penn’s. And Cornell is in upstate New York, with a well-reputed engineering program. So figure out what’s important in a school for you, check out each school’s unique offerings (Penn’s submatriculation program, Princeton’s woodrow wilson school, etc.) and then you may have a better idea where you want to apply. Putting yourself on a mailing list or checking out the website is a great way to get info.</p>

<p>One thing you can consider is applying ED (or EA), if you’ve got your heart set on one of them. Notification is Dec 15, and RD app deadline is Dec 31. So if you get in somewhere ED, you don’t have to submit your other apps (but make sure you actually DO them beforehand so you dont have to cram it all in during 2 weeks around winter exams!), and it’ll keep your dad happy. If you get deferred/denied ED (or EA), then you can send out those other apps.</p>

<p>Also, Ivies and such tend to give out great financial aid packages (or so I’ve heard, I didn’t get squat), so even if you don’t go, you can bargain with the school you’re going to.</p>

<p>Wow sorry for the long post.</p>

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<p>Bowtie – I dont mean to be mean, but you have garbled many tax concepts.</p>

<p>In this country, we have income tax and estate and gift tax (the latter two are somewhat linked).</p>

<p>Money given to anyone as a gift is NOT income. If it is paid directly to the school as tuition it is not a taxable gift. If it is paid as living expenses, etc, it would still not be taxable income, but if it exceeded 13K (can be doubled if the donor is married), it would be a taxable gift, that the donor pays. HOWEVER, the donor could still use his/her lifetime exemption of up to $1M(if paid to a grandchild, it would be considered a generation skipping gift). Not that many people have taxable estates.</p>

<p>Gifts to the student, or amounts paid on his behalf will have to reported on following year FAFSA, and may reduce aid. Some people consider loaning kid money or gifting to students parents.</p>

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<p>kayf is right I know nothing about taxes, that is why i said go to your CPA. I personally think that knowledge from CPA’s and Lawyers are very cheap (or at least a good value) if consulted BEFORE you do something. It sure beats the cost of talking to them after.</p>

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<p>Back from my whirlwind 11-college visit tour, I can attest that visiting colleges simply isn’t worth the price. I’m grateful for parents who were willing to fly over to the Northeast and spend a week of their time doing nothing but looking at schools, but I don’t think this is feasible for most people. It’s nice to be able to know what colleges look like, and some of the stuff they tell you is good for the “why xyz” school essay questions. But other than that, it isn’t worth spending hundreds of dollars on if you can’t afford it. Keep your head up and do your own research, and you should be fine.</p>

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<p>Extra applications = extra work and extra cost.</p>

<p>As far as pruning goes, identify the safeties. Any school that you would not choose over your safeties should be removed from the application list. Also, any school that will be too expensive after expected financial aid should be removed from the application list.</p>

<p>Non-binding early action could give you an additional safety if you are accepted in the early round. Re-evaluate other applications if this occurs. Binding early decision may not work out if there is uncertainty about whether a school really is your first choice, or if there is uncertainty about affordability.</p>

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<p>I strongly disagree with people about not visiting campuses. I found it to be extremely helpful regarding not only what type of campus I wanted, but also fit, which is something nearly everyone here likes to gloss over.</p>

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<p>toasted, first off, I personally like your chances at umich Coe, and while unpredictable, they do occasionally sweeten the pot for OOS students, and they do like applicants with a strong music background, and they have myriad performance opportunities. given what you want to study, I’d leave them on the list. I’d also be inclined to a degree to leave your ivy/reaches on the list as fanatic suggested, so long as there was a rationale. eg. Cornell has a strong grad eng program. You are also fortunate that uic has such a strong eng program. I wouldn’t let the party scene disturb you too much – the rigorous schools may have a greek/party scene, but the truth is that most eng students are too busy to be distracted, and there is always an equal population that is more focused than the party set. At large u’s, you’re not likely to have a problem finding a social fit. the numbers are actually in your favor.</p>

<p>You’ve made great progress with your dad so far, but here’s one more thought. If someone gave you $120’000 to go buy a house, would you buy a house online? If you’ve ever looked at houses online, you’d know that all the pictures in the world don’t really tell the story. So if you’re about to make a major investment like that, you’d drive around to get a sense of the neighbors and do close inspections. Then you’d choose the best set of variables for you budget and lifestyle. Well, your grandfather is buying that house for you but that doesn’t mean the money is free – it’s costing him a great deal. It’s a one time thing, a fantastic gift, and you owe it to yourself to kick as many tires as you CAN to get the most out of it. So don’t be discouraged from applying to as many schools as you like, and visiting more than 3 schools when the time comes. The cost of applications and visits are a mere fraction of the value of the gift. </p>

<p>One more thing – you keep saying your stats are low for reach schools. But I am betting right now that your class rank is very high. You’ve worked hard and accomplished much. Do not diminish you achievements. Like fantastika said, it is absolutely possible to be accepted to a reach – though statistically not highly predictable – and don’t let anyone tell you differently! Best wishes! enjoy your search – it’s exciting ;)</p>

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<p>Ps – the difference between fed methodology and institutional methodology is that fafsa disregards some types of assets, whereas institutional regards more assets overall. While the calculators give guidance, the truth is that offers actually vary quite dramatically, which is one reason many students apply to so many schools – you want to have enough choices for a good financial deal as well. State schools without high endowments can sometimes give good merit to those in the top percentile of admits, others with strong endowments can use same to attract good fits, but ivies base it on need. If you have lower need, sometimes a state flagship will actually give you more than an ivy, but in your case (100k range) it’s a liitle more unpredictable because you’re over the figure where most ivies give it all in grant, but under enough to theoretically give some aid in a high COA. So just trust that you can’t accurately predict the packages, love your safety, and aaply to as many ad you can to see how the different schools calculate your need considering the gift, which will be counted in the calculations.</p>

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<p>You’re obviously not dealing with MY CPA and lawyer! ;-)</p>

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<p>that is very true! i just see that i pay a lot less of those six minute increments when I ask questions first, instead of getting in trouble and asking them after.</p>

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<p>Absolutely true. It’s up to you to decide if it’s worth it. I personally thought it was, and I recycled some essays. But it’s really up to you. I don’t know about your financial status but if you qualify you can apply for application fee waivers.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, though, each college you apply to brings an additional fee because you have to send SAT/ACTscores, submit the CSS profile (not free!), and any artistic supplements, pay shipping for artistic supplements, etc. I think ucbalumnus brings up a good point here.</p>

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<p>I generally wouldn’t, because you can always bargain and have schools match offers (this only works for need-based, though, not merit-based). So say you get 30K finaid at one school and 20K at a school you like better, you can have the school you like better match the offer. Not sure if it works 100%, but our school’s valedictorian had Hopkins match her Northwestern offer, with no problem. And also, you never know how much finaid you will get until after you apply. Some of the more expensive schools can be surprisingly generous.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>You’re an adult. Take a bus, train, plane, get a cab, go on craigslist and couch surf, just go.
It would suck if you hated urban environments but didn’t know it and suffered through Columbia or NYU. Or, if you hated okeefenokeyvilles but suffered through some oklahoma university (sorry no offense). Maybe you’re freaked out by insane ****ing homeless drug addicts walking into your classes or peeing on your bike while you’re getting your bike out from the bike rack - then don’t come to Berkeley:P. But you’d never know it until you’ve spent a couple days there.</p>

<p>Your dad is just an applied type of guy - mine is too. You know… one of those “manly men”.
My dad thinks emotions are for the weak - he also is an engineer who wears my (female) old “Cheerleaders ROCK the HOUSE!” shirt in PUBLIC because its a shirt and “nobody at home depot cares what the hell shirt [he] wear[s] because people at home depot care about paint and drills”.
When my dad was at Hopkins, he called everyone wussies who dropped out of his PhD program and finished with “just a masters” and didn’t go full PhD. He is the type of guy who walked uphill both ways in the snow with newspaper shoes when he was young.
So whatever, you’re a modern 18 year old, just go. The most that could happen is he will be mad. Is he going to stop you from going to college? That’s ******** - he wants the best for you, and you know what’s best for you. Borrow money from your friends, or work. just go.</p>

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<p>I think it would be a huge mistake for anyone’s first look at a college to be the day they are moving in as a freshman. You only get a real sense of the college by visiting, something you can’t get from reading a catalog or looking online. Why your dad sees no value in speaking with current students and/or recent grads baffles me. It sounds like there is more to this story we aren’t hearing. Is the issue that your dad already has a specific college in mind he wants you to attend and/or is concerned you are focusing on colleges beyond his financial means??? Without more background we can only guess. I think the prior suggestions to get him to talk with other respected adults could help to resolve this situation.</p>

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<p>All you kids out there - never listen to an adult who starts out their thought with “…back in my day…” I say this an adult myself, one who has just been through the college process with my own daughter a year ago. This is either a person who hasn’t kept up or is bitter about their own lives and their opportunities and have that “no one did it for me so why I should I (fill in the blank)” mentality. This frame of mind can manifest itself as financial concerns or time constraints, but sometimes it’s something else all together and you might just have to go it alone in some areas. My daughter and I had so much fun visiting colleges and it’s something I’ll never forget now that she’s gone. We had very little money, so had to pick and choose, but we did what we could and had a blast. That said, it’s not the end of the world if you can’t visit, but I would encourage you not to give up on your plans; they all seem reasonable to me. My daughter applied to many schools because we needed a lot of financial aid so I needed her to have some choices. I thought it was money well spent on applications so we could campare financial packages. In our case, we spent about 1,100 dollars in application fees and ended up with full financial aid for her (worth about 60,000), so be careful what you skimp on. I can’t know if your father is somewhat misguided or has a withholding nature, but don’t let it stop you. Good luck.</p>

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“And I always remember, that whatever I have done in the past, or may do in the future, Duke University is responsible in one way or another.”–Richard Nixon</p>

<p>hehehehehehehhehehehehe</p>

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<p>My guess is that you can’t afford to go to any of these schools. Your dad probably just can’t tell you this. You may have to come to terms with 2 yrs. at CC and transfer to State U. There is no shame in that, by the way.</p>