<p>I visited Cornell and University of Florida before attending.
There was nothing special about visiting either.</p>
<p>I agree with your father.</p>
<p>OP my son is attending a college in the fall that he hated so much after the first visit he said he would rather go to the hated in-state option.</p>
<p>He only applied because his father loved it so much and he had a chance at a good scholarship.</p>
<p>When we do this again in a couple of years for my daughter I am not going to allow as many applications as he made (11!) or all these visits. I agree with what someone said earlier-I think he was paralyzed by too many choices. I also question how much information you get on the tours-they really are sales pitches after all. Nothing wrong with that-but much like buying a house they are probably not the best way to get information.</p>
<p>I also would be careful what time of year you visit. The schools that look great in summer may not look so great in the dead of winter-and the southern schools that may seem unbearably hot would have perfect weather when you are actually attending.</p>
<p>I also agree that you have one real financial and academic safety that you would like to attend-my son had a couple and that was very important when decision time came.</p>
<p>Cornell is probably one of the most amazing schools that I have visited with my kids, and two matriculated and recently graduated. The more time you spend on that campus the more you realize how unique and special a place it is. </p>
<p>Since you have several top schools on your list you do need to apply to many schools. Select your Ivy schools carefully because they each have their own personality. The poster who said you are missing EC’s so apply to Cornell rather than another Ivy has no idea what they are talking about. Cornell absolutely weighs everything on your application. Be sure to have a few safety schools both financial and academic although with your stats and GPA I would advice that you pick a safety that you could trully see yourself attending. Don’t just pick any random school that has a state school price…pick a place that you know you will be happy attending. You really need to talk to your dad and enlighten him. You have a very good shot at getting into a great school…it may not be an Ivy but there are great non Ivy schools as well. Just focus your attention on discovering where you could see yourself and do as much research as possible before presenting the information to your dad. I might have missed your response but where is your mom in all of this?</p>
<p>As a parent, I fear we have provided our children with WAY too many options, and when children ('cause that is what they are, if we are footing the bill) get influenced by grandiose Student Union buildings, uber-Libraries, and great landscaping, while academic differences are small and tuition differences are grand…</p>
<p>Ultimately, someone is paying for all this - and even worse, colleges get this idea that there is an ‘arms race’ going on. No offense meant to my many University of Michigan friends, but when they build an Electrical Engineering building to Saks Fifth Avenue standards (compared to what we had at Purdue :-)) or a Louvre-spec law library, is it any wonder their in-state tuition and fees are several times that of Purdue? </p>
<p>The problem here is that a lot of it is marketing - marketing to bring in top faculty and marketing to bring in top students. This would work great if there was a mechanism to control spending somehow. There isn’t. So we end up with in-state schools costing staggering amounts and out of state costs that need PowerBall jackpots to attend, then somehow some ‘financial aid’ appears and we’re all happy because we’re paying $25k a year instead of $35k a year.</p>
<p>Universities would do well to return to basics - fix what they have first and then worry about new stuff. The university my daughter will attend next month (Flagship State U) has no problem putting up new buildings as if concrete and steel will be rationed in 2013, but could use some TLC in their existing (and very nice) historical buildings… Likewise, putting up hotel-spec premium dorms for upperclassmen while preserving dungeon-like accommodations for freshmen :-)… </p>
<p>Then there’s the extra staff. Back in the dark ages there was the Dept. Head, the omnipotent secretary with powers similar to that of a Mafia Don, a couple of Assistant Dept. Heads, the faculty, and a handful of support staff. Our dept of 1000 students ran fine like this. Daughter’s school seems to have University of Dubai level staffing - which is great because an answer is a phone call or email away and the faculty can do what they do best, teach or research - but are we trading small gains in efficiency for several more salaried positions and large cost increases?</p>
<p>Sorry for the rant, I’d be curious to see how others feel…</p>
<p>There are a couple of issues in this thread that I think are getting a bit mixed up.</p>
<p>The first is the issue of visits. They are useful, but not essential. For some schools they count as showing interest, but interest can be showed in other ways.</p>
<p>The second is the issue of what the OP’s father is really concerned about. If it’s finances, then that may explain why he wants to limit both visits and the number of schools to apply to. Or it could be that the father thinks the OP should go to UIUC, and he’s just trying to make that happen. Or it’s possible he has an unrealistic or out-of-date understanding of the process. The OP needs a heart-to-heart talk with his dad.</p>
<p>The third issue has to do with choosing an effective strategy for determining how many schools to apply to and what they should be. If a person is very interested in attending a highly selective “reach” school, in my opinion it’s not a good strategy to apply to only a couple of them. They reject a lot of applicants, and you can’t figure out why. If a person is interested in mostly “match” schools, then it may make sense to apply to fewer. If a student is perfectly happy with the safety, then he can apply to just one. It’s all about choosing a strategy that is best designed to produce the result you want.</p>
<p>Your father should have my son! Maybe I could take you on some college visits :). My son refused to go on any visits. He did actually make it to see 2 schools and he will be attending one of them. After going through this whole process (and watching others go through it) I would now totally agree with your father on all of his points. One thing that you should consider is applying Early- and I’m not sure whether is Early Action or Early Decision, but one of them is non-binding. That way if you are accepted you will be less nervous about applying to fewer schools. Good luck, you have wonderful scores and you will do just fine!</p>
<p>Turbo, I actually agree wholeheartedly with you. The irony, of course, is that my son is at UMich, which clearly suffers an “edifice” complex as the poster MisterK likes to say 
So while I agree that this arms race exists, by the same token said spoiled mcSon bleeds blue.
Would he love it as much if the facilities were more in line with the plain-jane Canadian approach of “put the money in the faculty?” – Time will tell, as he will be looking at grad programs in Canada as well as the U.S. I am betting he ends up at another UMich caliber style of infrastructure (but the pocketbook hopes otherwise, as he is a Cdn national and grad schools for a MFA is WAY CHEAPER there ).</p>
<p>BTW, several posters here have suggested that the OP does not have sufficient ECs. I’m not convinced that is true if he/she is a top trumpet player who has won regional awards. Do not underestimate the value of top music performance as an EC. Top schools know exactly what kind of time and commitment it takes to be committed to an instrument to a high level AND maintain a very strong gpa among challenging classes.</p>
<p>Not sure the poster said whether the 3.8 was weighted or unweighted either. Either way, there are plenty of match range schools on that list if the HS he/she attends is respected for rigor.</p>
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<p>The UIUC website would tend to support this view:</p>
<p>“Each application is reviewed for evidence of the applicant’s commitment to an activity, special interest, or community service project as shown through consistent involvement, increased responsibility or leadership positions, and positive impact.”</p>
<p>For this student, I do think some college visits would benefit him because I think he has romanticized prestigious name colleges to the point of perhaps being unrealistic about them. </p>
<p>He’s heard their names and thinks, “Wow.” But we all know that some students visit and get a reality check that they are like a lot of other very good schools. Or, the student may find that he doesn’t like them at all. </p>
<p>the dad may be trying to cool his son’s jets about prestigious names because the dad has no intention of forking over extra dollars to go to one of them when the son has UIUC or some merit school options that won’t require more than “grandpa’s money.”</p>
<p>Since Cornell has been mentioned several times, let me just chime in to let you know that getting there from central Illinois is no picnic. You’ll have few choices for flights - either you connect through Detroit to Ithaca ($$), or you fly to Syracuse and take a long bus ride, which the school organizes at holiday times. When you add the long, snowy winters into the mix, you’ll find yourself delayed frequently. My oldest had at least a half-dozen times when his flight was cancelled or badly delayed over four years, and he didn’t come home often.
It’s a great school, and I know another trumpet player attending who is having a great time with his friends from the marching band, but it is expensive to travel to. If you are accepted, you can go on visiting student days without a parent.</p>
<p>Some thoughts:</p>
<p>Not really knowing how much the family can pay towards college education, it’s hard to comment. One can make a tremendous argument that the top top schools are not ECONOMICALLY worth it if you can go to one of the better state schools at in-state rates. </p>
<p>There are a couple of reasons for college visits. One of the most important is to determine what kind of school you want, such as urban (with a campus, without a campus), suburban, large, small. Personally, I think there is a great deal of utility to visiting a variety of schools to get a feel for them. After you know the kind of school you want – honestly, it becomes less valuable. As others have said, the visits tend to be ‘marketing’ trips. As a HS Jr or Sr, you are really not in a position to judge a university (you have no experience) but that’s exactly what you did.</p>
<p>As a compromise, can you convince your parents to visit “representative” schools – within driving distance so you can get a feel. If there aren’t schools within driving distance, and you could convince your parents for one ‘road trip’, I’d recommend going to Boston, which has a wide variety of types of colleges. Remember, these aren’t necessarily the schools you’re thinking of applying to, but rather to get a feel for campuses.</p>
<p>Otherwise, some schools do look for ‘demonstrated interest’ as a factor in admissions. Realistically, in such a case, visiting is always a plus. Not visiting may be a minus, if you’re within driving distance and could do a trip in a day visit. I don’t think a school really holds it against you if you don’t fly in – in this economy, it’s honestly beyond many students ability.</p>
<p>As far as the number of applications – you’re in a bind. Many of these schools have sub 20% acceptance rates, although you’re qualified applicant, any one of them are a crap shoot. My view is that you need 4 or 5 (plus a safety) at least. You might get into all 5, but if you only get into one, you’ll be glad you applied to the extras. If you expect to qualify for Financial Aid, another argument for you is that you want to apply to lots of schools to package shop.</p>
<p>If your family is intransigent on this issue, perhaps you can make an agreement that they pay for the first 5, and you split the cost on the next 5 (or you pay the application fees on those).</p>
<p>I know a kid whose dad did behaved like that too. His dad also said that he can’t go to a school within 3 hrs from his hometown of Pittsburgh. However, this kid was able to apply for schools and is now going to one of the SUNYs in upstate New York where he got a scholarship and is living with his cousins. Not the most ideal conditions, but at least he got out of his dad’s restrictions.</p>
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<p>Did he figure out the reason for the restrictions? Were they intended to steer the student away from Pittsburgh, CMU, and Penn State?</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for taking time to reply. The information you all have given me has been very valuable not only in my situation with my father, but also with my college search as a whole.</p>
<p>We both had a very long talk, and he has agreed to take me on visits to three colleges (no matter how far) on his money after I’m accepted, and as many as I want to on my own account. I can also apply to 10 colleges now, but I don’t know now if I will end up doing that.</p>
<p>We sat down and filled out an EFC calculator that I’ve seen commonly linked to on here and it was 35k (Federal methodology) and 24k(Institutional methodology). Does anyone know the difference between these two? Also, does this mean that if I go to a university that commonly meets full need; I would pay 35k and would qualify for aid for the rest?
My family as a whole decided that 35k/year is affordable for us, and I would not be in debt.</p>
<p>That list of colleges has been changing quite frequently for me.</p>
<p>As of now I’m still refining it…</p>
<p>University of Minnesota – Twin Cities
University of Alabama (Just in case something goes terribly wrong financially)
UIUC (I visited yesterday by myself, and I rather liked it. Their wind tunnel facility for aero didn’t seem up to par with their other buildings :(. Still my strong dislike for the party atmosphere keeps me from fully appreciating it. I will definitely keep this on my list, however.)
Penn State
Purdue
Case Western Reserve
UW Madison
RPI
CMU
Cornell
UPenn (considering removing)
Princeton (considering removing)
Stanford (considering removing)</p>
<p>However, now I feel as if I cannot drop the top tier colleges off my list with a good conscious :(. If the EFC calculator was accurate and if my assumption about need based aid above is true, I could comfortably afford them. And If I never apply I would feel like I would always wonder.</p>
<p>Do you all think it’s worth the application fee to keep the Ivies and Stanford considering my stats (below)? I read a poster say that they suspect I may be romanticizing the names of top schools. I very well might be (of course, I haven’t done it on purpose!). Is there anything you could say that may dissuade me from applying to these selective schools?</p>
<p>Here is a summary of my stats again for reference: </p>
<h2>33 ACT, 730 Chem, 750 US Hist ,taking Math II later, Hardest schedule possible, 3.8 unweighted, 4.5 weighted</h2>
<p>There also seems to be some confusion about my trumpet ECs:
-I’ve put in about 9-10 hours a week for the last 7 and a half years (I’m not sure how I can tell adcoms how much work I put into it)
-The state/regional orchestras are kind of a big deal for high school musicians
-First year I auditioned-- I place 2nd out of about 60 trumpet players, and couldn’t go to state because I was too young
-Second year I auditioned --I placed 1st/50, went to state and placed 2nd/6 in that orchestra.</p>
<p>Again, thank you for the help everyone :D</p>
<p>I’m very glad you and your dad had a nice talk and that you were able to reach some compromise.</p>
<p>Do some more digging on the internet, contact the schools and if you can communicate with some current students so get a better feeling of where you want to apply. I think it’s great that you found UIUC better than you had thought. Just remember that all schools have kids who party but that doesn’t mean you have to hang out with them.</p>
<p>Glad to see your dad changed his mind! This sounds like a much better – and far more reasonable – situation than before. :)</p>
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<p>Unless you are an URM, your stats are just not “high enough” to really say that it’s worth your while to apply to these schools. It’s mainly your GPA and ACT. I think for it to be smart to consider the big schools on your list (namely Stanford and Princeton) you should have a 3.9+ GPA and a 35/36 ACT. Those schools are just way too hard to get into, even with stats like yours. I had a solid list of consistent, time-consuming ECs and similar stats to you and was rejected from both schools.</p>
<p>There are probably some prestigious schools you should look into that aren’t so wacky in terms of admission – like Cornell, for example, which I think is a solid school to have on your list. If you want to pick one more “big name” school, look at the schools ranked 10-25 on lists.</p>
<p>I’m a cheapskate Mom and told my son he’d have to wait until he had acceptances in hand before we’d visit colleges. Why spend money visiting schools he might not get into?</p>
<p>What a dumb idea! Turns out, he was accepted at 9 out 10 schools he applied to, so we had to scramble like crazy between April 1 and May 1, including prom weekend where our son had to be on a 6 am flight the morning after prom, as well as traveling during the critical time period when he should have been studying for upcoming IB exams.</p>
<p>The worst part was the long awaited visit to a superb LAC we all thought would be the perfect match for our son. Had we made a campus visit earlier, he’d have never even applied as it wasn’t a good match, as much as we all struggled to love or even like it on our visit. Not only was it was a waste of an application, but his spot might have gone to another well qualified student at his high school whose dream was to attend this particular LAC and did not get in. </p>
<p>I didn’t buy any of that fit nonsense until I experienced it first hand. </p>
<p>In fact, our son might have eliminated 3-4 schools from his list had we visited before he applied.</p>
<p>Yeah for you! Glad you and your dad talked and glad he agreed to let you go see three after your acceptances. Sounds like a great compromise. Your “list” looks like its shaping up nicely. I’d keep Cornell on your list…everyone should have one great school that’s a reach. I’m curious why you kept Penn State and dropped Michigan which is a stronger engineering school?</p>
<p>Yeah, I would definitely remove Princeton or Stanford in favor of Michigan!</p>