<p>OP, I am glad that he is still open to looking, and glad that he is willing to look at Oberlin again. I am not one that frets about prestige and whether one school is significantly better. I think Brandies is a great school and seems to have a nice mix of diverse, thoughtful students as well.</p>
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<p>The proper time to have the “money talk” and set appropriate expectations is well before the application list is made. Changing the expectations at a later stage after commitments have been made (e.g. application deadlines have passed) will cause unnecessary arguments and resentment that could have been avoided had appropriate expectations been set early on.</p>
<p>Having the “money talk” may also sensitize the student to the family financial situation and give incentive to be more cost effective, both in making the application list and in choosing a school after admissions, financial aid, and scholarship decisions are out.</p>
<p>Also, NC Mom’s parameters in [post</a> #225](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14202133-post225.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14202133-post225.html) ensure that the student has some “skin in the game” and incentive to consider cost in the choice of school.</p>
<p>OP, sounds like your S will make a thoughtful and good choice. It’s great that Oberlin is willing to host him again and show him other aspects of campus that he may not have seen previously. Have heard great things about it & Brandeis. Wishing your S & family well in choosing what will work well for all.</p>
<p>Thanks for the update, esmerelda28. Sounds like a great idea to visit Oberlin again. I wonder what makes you think Brandeis might not be as good a school. It would offer different benefits and different drawbacks than Oberlin would, and the experience would be different because of the type of school it is (small university vs. LAC).</p>
<p>"It is a sweet dilemma, but we are a little surprised by how difficult it is to sweep Reach School off the table. "
-It is as difficult dillemma as it is very predictable. If certain school is out of reach financially, why apply? Applying to school like this will only create tension and will make very enjoyable process very stressful. This stress is artificially created, it is completely avoidable. It is up to parents to make sure that family celebrates college admission instead of breaking apart and remembering this period as one of the most stressful in their history.</p>
<p>The best reason to apply is the possibility of merit aid. If they don’t give any, I agree with you, Miami, 100 percent.</p>
<p>Miami - the whole point of the thread is that the school wasn’t financially out of reach but unexpected merit aid made another school enough less expensive to have 2nd thoughts. It sounds like an “all’s well, that ends well” situation where a second visit made DS of OP fall out of love with the now more expensive school and he’s ready to look around a bit more. However, as presented by OP, it was always a dilemma of financial priorities not hardship.</p>
<p>In a perfect world a family would know exactly how much each college would cost so that their student could apply only to those that they could afford.</p>
<p>It is not set up this way at all. Varying financial aid packages (some loan heavy, some grant heavy) and merit scholarships can change the cost of an education dramatically. You do not know how much any school will cost until you get your final package in April. </p>
<p>I would not want to pass up winning this lottery by not playing.</p>
<p>Johnnys parents can afford $120,000 for Johnnys college.</p>
<p>Johnny doesn’t apply to Duke because he cant afford to pay $220,000.</p>
<p>Johnny applies to Duke and receives an unexpected $100,000 in scholarships. Yippee!</p>
<p>Johnny applies to Duke and gets $40,000. Now what.</p>
<p>As a parent you want Johnny to go to Duke, you are so proud of him, he has worked soooo hard, he deserves to go, etc… You just can’t afford $180,000 but…</p>
<p>…and this is the dilemma that we all face. Well, some of us face.</p>
<p>Now throw in a few other schools and their packages. Johnny can go to Case Western or Tufts or JHU for $140,000. Still out of range but closer. Of course if we can come up with that extra money now Duke is only $40,000 more than those schools …</p>
<p>aaarrrgghhhhhh…the reality is so very difficult</p>
<p>I’m not sure how to enter this thread, but I have a similar issue re my son. I see that many people have responded to esmerelda so I wonder if it is ok to request advice about my family’s situation?</p>
<p>My son did not get into his first choice–U of Chicago. He was always taken with Franklin and Marshall and it is now his top choice. He was also accepted into NYU, BU, and Stonybrook. </p>
<p>It is the latter school that is giving me issues. Stonybrook offered him a Provost scholarship (half tuition) and a place in their highly selective (3,500 applicants for 60 spots this year) Honors college. My feeling is that this would serve him incredibly well in the future (he is interested in archaeology but does not want to be committed to it yet; Stonybrook has a very strong dept). THe Honors College appears to appeal to premed and other science students, with a small representation of social science and humanities students. So it seems the spot offered to him is even all the more impressive. Problem is, he only applied at last second, never saw the school, and does not want to visit it. He has worked himself to the bone for four years, did not get his first choice, but feels he will have a rich and classic college experience at F&M. </p>
<p>I feel I must let him make his own choice about this, but I hope F&M will work out. Anyone with any knowledge of F&M for a top-tier student (22 SATs, 3.85 GPA, editor of year book, etc) would be appreciated</p>
<p>Is the issue about paying for F&M? </p>
<p>From heresay, as a NYer myself, I am concerned about the college experience at Stony Brook. It has a great academic reputation, but a poor quality of life reputation, which will cause me to think twice before having my daughter apply. I think you have to visit it.</p>
<p>In looking at the F&M CDS, it appears that about 20% of their students have stats basically equal or better than your son. I don’t see what the problem would be.</p>
<p>My point is that while nobody knows exact amount, close predictions are possible. There is statistics on internet and there are people who have applied recently. Do not underestimate your own research and do not overestimate your counselor’s advice. It pays off to predict as closely as possible and it is more possible. Another approach is to put every school on spreadsheet with numbers and other criteria attached. Then, it is clear from the beginning that “A” school is OK as long as “X” money is awarded. If not, then go down the list to check if “B” school is possible, did it award “Y” amount of money. The process is enjoyable and not stressful.
I can only contribute from our family experience. And we did just that, although criteria was not money but acceptance to very competitive programs. However, it has happened that all schools that were on a list would award Merit, which we knew before D. applied, again from very extensive research over period of at least couple years.</p>
<p>Miami, your experience was enjoyable and not stressful because you were lucky enough to have a daughter with a very focused career goal (MD) and straightforward finances.</p>
<p>People whose kids have many more career options to explore and who have complicated finances (self employment, a special needs child, supporting an ill parent, non-custodial parent issues) aren’t lucky enough to be able to use your spreadsheet method to accurately predict what will be affordable and what will not be.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose kid is deciding between two “peer” institutions. One of them decided that all the money being used for a special needs sibling is “off the table” for college, and awarded them a very generous need-based package. The other is now reviewing their appeal.</p>
<p>Don’t be so dismissive of other families issues- you are lucky that you were able to closely predict the amount of aid. My friend had no precedent to rely upon, only the kindness and professionalism of a harried financial aid officer who is trying to distribute the limited amount of funds in the most equitable and generous way possible.</p>
<p>You can do all the research in the world- it doesn’t tell you what Emory or Brandeis or Vanderbilt or Rhodes is going to think about your 12 year old autistic child who attends a 30K per year private school and needs 15K of speech, occupational, and physical therapy on top of that.</p>
<p>It is also difficult because sometimes the money may be physically there, but would put a huge hole in retirement savings. How much is enoug to have? How much will you need for the other kids? This is particularly true if your own parents have no real assets so you know there will be no future inheritance.</p>
<p>For Suzy, there are schools that specifically state they offer NO merit money (BC is an example) so applying if you need some is waste of energy and money. There are schools that offer merit money only to the very tip top candidates and so are unlikely to offer your child merit aid so applying may be worth a shot. Then there are the schools that offer merit aid to attract top students where your student would likely do well. With my first, I knew the Ivys did not offer merit (although their need-based aid goes to fairly high income levels) but not that other schools did not. I also did not realize that almost all the scholarships offered from our high school and town had need-based criteria. Thus, even though we had the financial talk, there were some applications we probably should not have even bothered with. He ended up with good merit money and had a great experience, but if money were no object would have picked a different school. </p>
<p>For the OP, for the most part kids end up happy where they go. I don’t think there is one “perfect fit” school, although I do think some schools can be wrong for some students. At this time of senior year, it all seems so critical, but once the kids leave high school and get to college, they tend to bloom where they are planted. Good luck.</p>
<p>Sounds like the OP is doing all the right things. My Oberlin D’s good friend is at Brandeis and loves it. Again, I think you’d see a lot of overlap between the two student bodies. Hard to see how he could make a wrong decision between the two.</p>
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<p>I don’t know about now…but the perception when I was applying to colleges in the early-mid '90s was that it was great for pre-med/law, math, Near-East Studies, English, and US/European History. </p>
<p>Very pre-professional student body and at the time…one of the 3 most expensive universities/colleges in the entire country. Liked the campus, but was concerned with the lack of faculty coverage in the areas I was interested in studying. They offered me 50% scholarship…Oberlin happened to offer me more, had more faculty, and was known for strengths in my fields of interest. </p>
<p>Also, knew a few classmates who transferred from Brandeis to Oberlin because for East Asian Studies/related fields…they felt Brandeis wasn’t nearly as strong because there wasn’t enough faculty/resources devoted to it. They also felt the rigor of the courses taught and the academic caliber of the non pre-med students to be slightly lower than those at Oberlin. </p>
<p>Granted, a lot may have changed since the '90s so YMMV.</p>
<p>If keep your head cool, what is “straightforward and focused” was not so all by itself. It was made “straightforward and focused” by family. There are factors that absolutely cannot be controlled, there are others that could. Start talking to kids in JH, investigate and plan…it will result in “straightforward and focused” enjoyable situation. However, some unpredictable event might derail entire plan. Then, focus will change. As long as everybody understand and involved with what is going on…I cannot contribute beyond my experience, but path was NOT “straightforward and focused” from the beginning at all, we made it so, luck did not happen all by itself, it was a ton of efforts…in both career path and financial side.</p>
<p>Kiplinger’s database is a great tool for figuring out how schools use merit aid as part of their enrollment management. The chart below shows that Kenyon really doesn’t play the merit aid game. Their model is much more full pay for folks who don’t qualify for need-base aid.</p>
<p>In contrast, Oberlin and Denison (similar schools in many ways) use a lot of merit aid. Go ahead and ask Kenyon for more money, but it probably won’t yield much. Its just not how they operate. </p>
<p>[Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts)=OH&id=none</p>
<p>I think Brandeis is the equal of Oberlin, and he might like the proximity to Boston.</p>
<p>Miami…could you write your post so it is a bit easier to understand?</p>