<p>Off topic
Pregnancy - at least a woman could decide whether to keep the baby or not, a man could become a father whether he wants it or not. Just think about that. If I had a son, I probably would be more nervous in that respect.</p>
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<p>I am a bit confused by this statement and by the opening post in general. </p>
<p>1) Are you okay if she is out at night with friends as long as she gets to her friends’ house by 3 am?</p>
<p>2) Are you simply saying that IF she comes home at all, it should be before 3 am?</p>
<p>3) Would you be okay if she calls you before 3 am to say that she is okay and that she won’t be coming home tonight? </p>
<p>I’m trying to see things from the girl’s point of view. If she leaves home at 10pm she probably doesn’t really know how things will go in the next 5 hours, so I can imagine that it would be very hard to commit to returning by 3 am. I don’t know if she is in a relationship but I could imagine that she doesn’t always know at 10 pm where (and with whom) she plans to sleep that night.</p>
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Gender does make a difference IMO in one key respect. A young female out and about at 3am who might have had a flat tire or other issue such that she’s ‘stuck’ somewhere is definitely more at risk of assault by some weirdo than a guy is. It’s unfortunate but that’s the way it is. Just read the papers or ask a cop. </p>
<p>However, from the ‘respect’ for house rules perspective, I agree that gender shouldn’t make a difference.</p>
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[QUOTE=belevitt]
Is there ever a time when parents are able to view their children as adults capable of making their own decisions? Does this depend on age of the son/daughter? Maturity of the son/daughter? Age and maturity of the parents?
[/quote]
It depends on when the children cease to be dependent on their parents for the essential costs of living. Self-sufficiency == autonomy.</p>
<p>On the thread topic… The biggest problem I would have with a 3am curfew is that this puts her on the road home when the bars have closed and the serious drunks are out on the road. Not good company, especially for someone with limited driving experience.</p>
<p>I have to say, I’d have laid down the law much more firmly from the start in this case. Now, I’d suggest having a frank, unemotional discussion that explains where mom’s motivation comes from: daughter’s safety. It’s not a question of trust; it’s a question of risk management.</p>
<p>I completely agree with marite’s post 16. The bottom line: I love her (we all love them), but they are not paying mortgage or the rent – at least mine isn’t. And even when they work, I don’t insist on them ‘paying rent.’ I ask them to use their earned money wisely, to save for college expenses, and to rely on that money for extras/luxuries (instead of asking me for those). For the privilege of board & room, I ask them to do very few things: to respect their surroundings by helping to clean, contribute to the cooking efforts & other household matters, and most especially to respect my own house rules: respect for property, no excessive/loud noise, and reasonable bedtimes and returns in the evening from social engagements. Why? Because I work, even if/when they don’t. Need a good night’s sleep, which, as others point out, they will soon come to understand if they haven’t yet.</p>
<p>I ask my D’s to be home by midnight or at the latest 12:30, both because of safety and because of my work schedule. When they live on their own, they can live by whatever lifestyle is legal and doesn’t antagonize any of <em>their</em> roommates. :)</p>
<p>It is also good to have a lot of rules when they live at home. It’ll be a great incentive for them to move out as soon as they graduate. What’s the point of moving out if they don’t have to cook, do laundry, pay rent and could come and go as they please.</p>
<p>We were discussing this issue at dinner last night with my D, a 20 year old junior, and my stepson, now 33. It is amazing how a childhood experience of worrying about a person who did not come home at night can create responsible, sensitive and respectful young adults.</p>
<p>For me, the experience occurred when I was 10 or 11. I awoke very early on Sunday morning to find the hall light still on, which was unusual since my parents would turn it off when they went to bed. I walked down the hall to their bedroom only to find the bed made and unslept in. I woke up my brother (one year younger) and we were both terrified. (The housekeeper was there and still asleep.) Keep in mind, this is long before cell phones, email, text messages, etc.</p>
<p>A few hours later, my parents called to say they had taken a midnight flight to Las Vegas with some friends. I was furious, but I never forget how frightening worrying about someone you love can be.</p>
<p>Fast forward 30 or 40 years. My stepson is just 21 and we took him to Las Vegas. We told him he could stay out as late as he wanted so long as he stayed at the hotel. My daughther, than around 7 or 8, awoke early to see her brother’s bed was still made. My H and D were terrified when we could not find my stepson downstairs. Finally, a few hours later, he sauntered in, tired but fine. I think that experience trained both my stepson and my D to be considerqte of those waiting at home.</p>
<p>my children seem to react more to the ‘risk management’ argument and respond better to the ‘being courteous and respectful’ of others argument. for them, taking risks is what life is about–it is part of their education as they develop into adults. they’ve certainly listened to me, enough, telling stories of life and adventures at their age to throw it right back at me when i try to impose my ‘less risky’ thoughts on them now. being sensible is something i trust they are capable of and while i still lose sleep if they are not home at midnight, when i prefer, i at least have discovered that they are learning to give me a call to reassure me and let me know what’s up. each family is different and each must find a solution which best fits their personalities and history, i’m just suggesting one can make the problem worse if respect isn’t shown by all parties. they will do what they want no matter what we think. one’s hope is the ‘what they want’ includes consideration for parents who they love and respect.</p>
<p>vicariousparent,</p>
<p>I feel its okay if she is sleeping over a friends’ house. Meaning she should be in someone’s home by 3a.m. The clubs and/or casionos (n Canada) closes at 3a.m., which gives her plenty of time to make it home in time. We live n Michigan approximately 40 mins from the Windsor border. She is the youngest of 3 children, and we didn’t have this problem with her older siblings. They either didn’t have a desire to stay out all nite or respected our wishes. She feels she shouldn’t have any curfew and should be able to go and come as she pleases. </p>
<p>As to her having a job, she does as well as taking 1 class during the summer. Although, I am sure how well can she be doing in her summer class when she comes home around 1-2a.m. during the week. However, in her defense she does get up to get to her class on time. Her class starts at 8 am on Tues, Wed and Thurs. However, from Thurs nite til Sunday nite she doesn’t come home before 3. Last nite she didn’t come in til 4:30 a.m. and I txtd her to make sure she was okay to just receive no response until my second txt to which she replied she didn’t see she had a message. She did say “sorry”. Since we didn’t experience this with the other 2, I just wondered how others parents are handling this situation w/ their college students or rules if any are being enforced.</p>
<p>Well…when your kids were at home, they were also using OUR cars to get from point A to point B. We asked that they be home by 1 a.m. (and the cars too)…so that we would not be up worrying about them or wonder if we were going to have transportation.</p>
<p>If our kids were spending the night at someone else’s home, we asked that they let us know IN ADVANCE (not the night of). Again…there was that car issue.</p>
<p>Our kids understood that this was our home and that they really needed to try to “fit in”. They didn’t give us any trouble.</p>
<p>They DID spend some nights sleeping at friends (we had kids here too). Our kids didn’t do this on “work days” (either ours or theirs)…and YES…the kids had full time jobs.</p>
<p>Our kids have not had this issue as they have stamina/health issues and know that it’s important for them to get enough rest. Their friends also have jobs and need to get to work. We have never had to figure out any curfew but do have our kids let us know when to expect them as a courtesy. They know that mom will wait up for them until they come home & that makes them very conscious that they are on our mind. They also know that their dad has to wake at 5:30 to go to work every morning. I guess they also rely upon us for transportation, so they do keep us posted.</p>
<p>It is interesting to read how everyone has handled this issue as I suspect it may come up at some point “down the road.”</p>
<p>In our home, we have no curfew. Its a flexible arrangement depending on the circumstances. </p>
<p>Our rules are that we need to know what her plans are, not all the details, but the general plans. Both my daughters have seen my husband and I tell each other, they hear me calling my mom (who lives with us) and letting her know what we are up to, my husband calling me to tell me if he will be late.</p>
<p>They see the telling us what they are up to as something that is done out of courtesy. It is just something that is done. Period. Sure sometimes they forget, but we live by the text.</p>
<p>I just send a text “plans?” and they let me know. I do the same for my mom and my husband (I am the center of the wheel). And I tell them what my plans are.</p>
<p>I prefer them spending the night at a friends house if they are hanging out there. Being on the road when the bars close is a very dangerous time of night. </p>
<p>I think the OP might have better luck with her daughter is she approaches the issue as one of courtesy and respect.</p>
<p>What does mom do at home for her daughter. Just stop doing those things. And I recommend going one full day without being in any kind of contact. Disappear.</p>
<p>It has only taken a few times of my not reacting to my daughter’s texts or calls for her to see that its not fun to not be able to reach someone when you need to, and that it really simple to text back “i am okay xo!”</p>
<p>As I told my daughters, their dad lets me know what’s happening and he’s over 50, so its not an age thing, or smothering thing, its about manners/</p>
<p>I like your approach ILTQ! It’s basically what we do but w/o texting. Our kids do see & hear us all checking in with one another & hear us talking about plans so it has been working OK for us so far. Have never disappeared on my kids yet, but that’s a thought. <grin></grin></p>
<p>What goes on in my family is very similar to ILTQs family. I think I’ll be texting my mom where I’m going when I’m 30, because I see her tell her parents where she’s going still today. It makes sense. Of course, it doesn’t work for everyone. My mom won’t freak out that I’m at a party because she knows I am responsible–in turn, that encourages me to be honest and stay in touch with her.</p>
<p>When I was in high school, my parents asked that I come home by 0030 or 0100 so they could stop worrying and go to bed, unless I let them know I was staying over at somebody’s place. It made some sense and I tried to respect it. When I’m back at home now from my college residence, I tell them that I will be back after any reasonable time for them to go to sleep and that they should not wait for me any more than they would wait for me when I am residing at school. They accepted this, grudgingly. </p>
<p>Your policy is inconsistent. You want her to be home at 3, unless she is staying over at people’s houses. How do you know she isn’t? When I’m back in my hometown, I’m not at bars late–I’m usually drinking at friends’ houses and talking. Ask yourself if you trust your daughter when she is away at college. If you do, then you should bite the bullet on this. If not, that’s a completely different conversation–it’s not about the curfew; it is about her lifestyle?</p>
<p>okay, just thought i could tell my story. i have an older brother (i am a freshman in college now) who had the same problem as your daughter. My parents are strict immigrants, especially my dad, and we grew up with a lot of rules. I am not complaining; i actually found these rules easy to follow. I’ve always had a curfew, and so has my brother. You know how kids who are kinda stifled growing up go crazy in college? That’s what happened to my brother. The summer after his freshman year in college, he suddenly thought he could come home whenever he wanted, do what he wanted, disrespect our parents. My family didn’t know what to do, and to tell u the truth, he’s now a grad student and nothing has changed. He stays out all night, and on the nights he doesn’t stay out all night, he plays video games, or watches TV, or goes on the computer. My dad can’t sleep with all the lights blaring. And so he gets very angry. my dad resorts to the “my house, my rules” cliche but it doesn’t work. and then dad gets madder, to the point where he tells my brother that if he can’t respect his rules or his father, to move out and take care of himself. My brother doesn’t even pay rent (and we were paying for his gas until just recently). Sometimes I am just confused and I yell at my brother for causing us so many problems. Nobody needs to be hanging out with their friends until 4 am. Not only is it unnecessary, it’s just stupid and dangerous. And i am sick of the fighting in my house.</p>
<p>do i sound bitter? sorry, just stressed</p>
<p>My kids know I have trouble sleeping if they are out of the house at night, and they do their best to keep me from worrying. We have a technique that works for us: if they are going to be out late, they text me a message, so that if I wake up and they aren’t in the house yet, I’ll know where they are. (They text messages such as; “spending the night at xxx’s house” or “will be back at 2 a.m.”) They often choose to spend the night at friend’s house if the only other option is to drive home really late… .</p>
<p>I think is absolutely inconsiderate for any adult child to disrespect their parents home and rules.</p>
<p>Though I do see the side that your daughter is trying to portray. My parents never instated a curfew once I reached 18 years old. Instead, they’d have me call them when I was going to be late and tell them where I was. I don’t know what anyone could be doing after 3am because most clubs (with the exception of huge party towns like Miami and Las vegas) close by 3am. I highly doubt that she’s outside at 3am. It’s more likely that she’s at a friends house, which is safe and reasonable. Maybe telling her to keep in contact with you while she’s out will give her the freedom she desires and the comfort that you need?</p>
<p>Just another data point–curfews seem artificial to me. Not sure what highjinks kids can get into at 3 AM that they can’t at 3 PM. I wasn’t raised with a curfew–the only rule was our parents always had to know where we were. My siblings and I turned into remarkably responsible adults. As my kids began driving, I asked them to be home 11-11:30-ish so they wouldn’t wake me up when they came in, not because I was concerned about what they might be doing. My oldest graduated hs last year and I would ask him what his plans were when he headed out at night and to text me if he was going to spend the night somewhere else. I thought I had come up with this brilliant idea but have seen it mentioned often on CC. No late-night phone call to disturb everyone’s sleep but a simple check of the cell phone in the morning. If he’s going to be home late, he comes in the back door. The same deal has worked remarkably well this summer after his first year of college.</p>
<p>I really do not get fighting over something like this. Although I must add I trust my kids.</p>
<p>My concern with coming home at say 2am or 3am when the clubs close is just that, all those drinkers on the road at the same time, in the dark. You can be sober as a judge, but just as dead if you are hit by a drunk driver, and when clubs close. </p>
<p>If I am out, I want to be on the road at least an hour before the clubs close or half an hour after.</p>
<p>If you are worried about drinking, I would rather they stay at sonmeone’s house, if its sex, well just as likely sex is happening during day when parents are at work.</p>
<p>For me, its the driving with drunks on the road that scares me, not so much what they might be doing in someone’s home.</p>
<p>I told my daughters that at this age, they don’t need to ask permission to do someting, just see if there is a family conflict.</p>