@drjmom Visiting campuses is very important. The prospective student has to feel that a specific place could be his/her home for the next four years. My daughter was accepted into 8 top schools, three Ivies (Columbia, UPenn and Cornell), and she chose UChicago (for Economics and Political Science) because, after visiting three times and attending many informational sessions with current students and professors, she realized that that was the right place for her. She is a very strong and dedicated student (top student in her class from a very prestigious prep school, 15 AP’s and post AP"s with high A’s and 5’s), not a party girl at all, but very social at the same time. She loves city life (museums, concerts, good restaurants, etc) and being close to a great city was a very important fact as well. Many kids follow the brand name of a specific university and, if it is not the right place, the consequences could be devastating.
One thing to keep in mind about college is that there’s more to the academic atmosphere than just the quality of the faculty: the quality of the student body has at least as much (if not more) influence on the intellectual vibe of the school. There are lots of schools with good faculties (pretty much all top 50 unis and colleges hire from the same pool of PhDs) but not all of those schools will have students with the same passion for learning. There’s something to be said for being surrounded by smart classmates who take their work seriously and are capable of performing at high levels. Not to say you won’t find that at a place like Belmont, but I can pretty much guarantee that the average Belmont student will be less intellectually driven than the average student at an Ivy (or equivalent). Your classmates in college will have the most impact on whether you’re happy and challenged.
If she’s looking at “lower level” schools, ask if they offer an honors program. If they do, find out if she’d qualify. It’s a way of getting some of the more elite level school intellectual experience at a school that’s not super elite.
My D was given hard time by some HS teachers for not going to a “better” choice college, but strangely none of them offered to pay! She had no interest in Ivies. She did get accepted to some top (by some people’s measure) schools including Duke, UVA and Davidson - but no money. So don’t feel bad if you D is just not interested. Mine ended up at flagship honors and did great (now at Ivy grad). She needs to go where she is comfortable. Belmont is beautiful - maybe another visit to sit in on classes and to explore academics more.
What does she want to study? I know several kids at Belmont that love it. It’s appeal for them is the music, music tech, and music industry degrees in a big music town. It’s a Christian school that was once very aligned with Baptist but has moved away from direct relationship to having no specific denominational ties. (Kind of same story as Furman actually, but may have retained more Christian feel in course requirements). One very talented kid from our church transferred there from Tulane because of music program.
I think there are different kinds of stress for college age kids. One kind comes from being overwhelmed by choices without a lot of mentoring (typical of large public schools). Social stress is another. Still another comes from academic stress, especially without support. That is where the upper tiers schools excel - both public and private - they have challenging classes WITH a lot of support, which might be workshops, tutoring, counseling, study and review sessions, extended office hours etc. and even smaller classes sizes with more attention.
As other have said, it is the quality of her student peers that will make the difference in her college experience. The actual subject matter taught at different level universities may be similar but the pace and level of discussion can be a lot different. The upper tier schools are usually research focused which might open new and unexpected areas of interest. Honors colleges at large publics also offer the same concierge experience at a lower cost.
Carino, your child sounds very similar to mine. Mine is also social but doesn’t go to parties and is home most weekends. I am happy to hear that your daughter has done well. Thank you for the message!
@scmom12, Belmont is beautiful but I don’t think she will actually go there. She has made it perfectly clear that she will not be attending Ivy schools like Harvard and Yale. Her one friend lost a great deal of hair due to stress:( I think she would be happiest at a good university with an Honors College. We shall see! We are looking at U of Mich next week. My friends are suggesting Notre Dame and Northwestern but I think she wants to be further away from home. LOL! Other friends are recommending Washington U in St. Louis but she doesn’t like St. Louis. So many factors to consider…
Is UofSC too far? Top ranked public honors college and smart, nice kids. D attended with full ride. Top scholars (McNair and Horseshoe for OOS) would be a possibility. Great friend group from freshman year. Keeps you out of lots of large auditorium classes. D got close to several professors. Magellan grants for research no matter what your major. Honors requires senior project but it can literally be anything from research to a paper to art pieces to music videos. My D was not the only one that chose it over more “prestigious” colleges that were expensive.
Would your daughter be comfortable in Belmont’s religious environment? I know that is an asset for some applicants, but a liability for many more. It is known for its excellent Music Business program, with connections in the Nashville industry, but a lot of young, hipster, musicians don’t want a conservative, religious-affiliated institution.
@woogzmama, that is precisely why I don’t think she would be a good “fit” there. She is liberal in her views. I think yo wrote it well!
@scmom12, it may be too far for me!
You might want to consider Rice in Houston. It is excellent academically (currently ranked #15 in USNWR, tied with Cornell), but has a more relaxed, less stressed-out environment than many of the other top universities. Rice is often ranked #1 in Princeton Review’s annual rankings for “Happiest Students.”
@drjmom My daughter graduated from HS this year - top student, great test scores, deep ECs in the performing arts. She did not apply to any Ivies and has not second guessed that choice. It was not so much “Ivy vs. not Ivy” (of the ones we visited, she liked Brown the most). She ended up finding other schools that she preferred.
Here’s my first piece of advice. If possible, have your D sit in on classes at schools of interest - ideally before she applies, but if not, then at her top picks after acceptance. As my D got further along in the process, she realized how important it was for her to have peers that took their learning seriously and were intellectually curious. Yes, you will find students like that anywhere, but she favored LACs and smaller universities so overall student vibe ended up being very important due to the smaller student population. At an honors program at a public research university, the academically ambitious usually will find their tribe.
Second piece of advice, perfect the “smile and nod.” Fellow parents, family friends, teachers, and classmates of your child will probably question her application choices. Come up with some standard response, it doesn’t matter what, anything from “she’s hasn’t narrowed down her choices,” to “she’s identified so many good schools, it will be hard to choose,” or my personal favorite, “so tell me about your child’s dream school…”
Third, as you well know, top 20 schools reject far more qualified applicants than they accept. I know lots of deserving, qualified young people that were shut out of their reach schools and it was emotionally tough all around.
Vandy is a great reach option. Also, has she visited Wash U? The surrounding area is really nice. My D also liked Case Western and LACs in or near the Twin Cities.
It sounds like she does not want the stress of a pressure cooker college like an Ivy. (My kid, while not Ivy material, avoided schools with students whom he perceived as very competitive.) Her friend’s experience at Yale is not unusual (although not the norm.)
I’m wondering if her attraction to Belmont (where I know only one student, but a very happy one) is that it is not such a pressure cooker. If that’s the case, perhaps based on her interest you could find some other more “middle ground” schools - ones where the academics are very much the focus but the competitive vibe is toned down. In that area, Davidson or Wake Forest for example? Or as mentioned, the honors college at UNC?
She will be smart wherever she goes as will other students.
It sounds like she needs to be able to articulate what she wants; at this point she has only rejected what you want. There are tons of good schools out there, and with her stats, many will be options for her. The question is, which one is a fit?
I would also consider how she feels about rejection. Some kids, especially ones who have experienced little of it, really can’t handle it. She may be saying this as well.
Lastly, I know a lovely young woman who just graduated from a not highly ranked college. She had better options but wanted to be a bigger fish in the small pond. She absolutely blossomed in every respect -intellectually, socially, in confidence. She is deciding between a number of great options now. In other words, this path can work…
Wow! You were spot on with everything you wrote! It is as if you seem to really get what my daughter is feeling. She has said that high school “sucked” BC it wasn’t fun so now she wants to have fun and get a decent education. I agree about big fish in a small pond. Makes sense to me. Thank you so much for your comments! You truly seem to get my question/concerns.
@mamaedefamilia, thank you for the comments about others not understanding her college choices. I had a friend say “if I were you, I would make her go to Harvard. She can afford it and has earned it.” My response was that she simply isn’t interested in going there to which I got a look of disgust. My son was a B student and not in EC. He is at Purdue and doing well. No one ever had major expectations or input on where he should apply. I feel bad for all high achieving students. People expect too much from them and they expect them to conform to where they should apply!
We have been to St. Louis but not the university. She wasn’t a fan of the city so we disregarded it. But, our friends’ kids love Wash U so maybe she will check it out?
What are your budget constraints? Have you run NPC s? Can you afford your EFC?
(An aspect to take into account is that Ivy+ schools typically have the best need based aid).
For good music without a conservatory but less conservative than Belmont, check out St Olaf.
Check out “colleges that change lives” (website, book, and if possible fair or visit) - the top ones, beside at Olaf, sound like what your daughter wants: academically serious but not cut throat, down to earth students, good opportunities. They’d include Whitman, UPuget Sound, Reed, Rhodes.
Add Earlham and Wooster + explore good honors colleges (USC Columbia, PSU Schreyer, ASU Barrett for instance). Watauga+Wilson scholars at AppState?
For humanities, UChicago, Columbia, Kenyon, Hamilton, Pomona, Carleton would all be excellent.
@MYOS1634 , thank you for the message. No budget constraints. What is an NPC? EFC? I am new to all this lingo…I will definitely have her check out colleges that change lives. She will love that:)
Net price calculator : how much that specific college would cost your family based on your income and assets.
Must be run for each college since each college has its own formula and may include non need based merit.
EFC : estimated family contribution. The minimum colleges will expect you to pay. Only HYPSM Williams Amherst may expect less. If you cannot pay your EFC, you need to find merit aid (based on test scores and other “impressive” criteria, NOT on your income.)
If you or your spouse work at a college, check out if they have tuition exchange (te).