I am a professor at Purdue and my son gets 50% off tuition so I get that part. She can go wherever she chooses. Budget is not an issue for her.
Is part of the issue for you rather than her? Do you want her to go to an Ivy so you will be able to tell people who ask she is going to an Ivy rather than some “lesser” school?
Not an issue for me. Reality is I don’t want her that far from home. East coast West coast are too far for my liking but she will go wherever it fits best for her.
Hi there. I wanted to add that there are many, many schools that are on the spectrum between Ivy and Belmont. Pick schools that appeal to her but also where she fits in academically and socially. My daughter was similar and applied to no Ivy schools (didn’t want the pressure that existed in her high school) and loved Notre Dame for its great education and fun-loving students. Find your fit!
@naviance , my daughter felt same about Ivy schools. ND is a great school! Best of luck to your child:)
Also, not all ivies are the same - there’s a world between Dartmouth and Columbia, or between Cornell and Brown.
She could also look into Barnard, she could take some classes at Columbia but wouldn’t have the same pressure and could “dose” it as she wishes.
@drjmom Wash U’s surrounding area is lovely. It’s on the border of St. Louis and St. Louis county - surrounded mostly by upscale, well-established residential neighborhoods with mature trees. On one side is Forest Park, larger than Central Park, and great for biking and running. It hosts a wonderful zoo and museums - all free. Another side has the Delmar Loop - a commercial strip full of restaurants, fun shops, music venues, etc. It’s a far cry from some of the depressed areas of St. Louis. There is also light rail access to downtown right from campus.
The campus is stunning, the dorms are modern and pleasant and the campus food is astonishingly good.
My D already graduated and loved every single day at ND! She never looked back on her other great options!!
I don’t think your daughter should feel pressured to attend a school where she doesn’t feel she fits in. I encourage you and her though to visit a variety of schools and form your own opinions. Anectodal stories from friends are helpful but specific to them. My son is st Yale and is happier than he has ever been in his life. It actually ranks pretty high in student happiness - sorry I can’t remember where, it’s been too long since I’ve read the articles. Anyway, sounds like she is a great student and will end up with great choices. Good luck finding the best school for her.
@Musicmom2015 , thank you and best wishes to your son! I am happy to hear he is happy:). My friend’s daughter is struggling, socially, not academically. Makes me sad for her:(. This can happen anywhere. She just worked so hard in her education but never realized there is more to life than just the GPA.
@MYOS1634 wrote:
This is misleading. There is no significant difference overal between academic standards and expectations at Barnard v. Columbia-- while there are a variety of advantages to attending Barnard (as a woman’s college & LAC), it is definitely not a low pressure environment… So taking courses at Columbia or not has absolutely no impact on academic pressure – it would not be a good plan at all for someone to attend Barnard with the expectation that the academics on the west side of Broadway are somehow easier.
And I don’t see Barnard as a good fit for a student who wants to stay close to home in Tennessee and is attracted to Belmont because of the lovely campus. (I am very proud of my d’s Barnard experience, but it is not a fit for everyone - and definitely not a low-stress environment. So not really a good suggestion in this particular case.
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To the OP – you might also look at Rhodes - just one other excellent LAC in your home state.
I think your d. should apply to Vandy even if her heart says Belmont now, just to keep options open in the spring if she decides she wants more challenge – but if she develops a college list with Vanderbilt as the most selective on her list, she’ll be fine. Vandy has a national reputation as a US News top-20 university, and should be prestigious enough for anyone. Plenty of students choose Vandy over the Ivies, often for financial reasons.
And of course she should apply to Belmont if she would be happy to go there – it’s just that as Belmont is probably an admissions safety for her, there is no reason for her to make a decision until next spring. Your d should go where she will be most happy in the long run.
I will differ with those who say that a beautiful campus doesn’t matter. For some students, it absolutely does. An aesthetically pleasing campus can be very restful and even restorative in times of stress. (My D remarked on this many times during her years at Wellesley.) There is a reason why people vacation in national parks and why we are drawn to scenic views.
D was also a top student (salutatorian, 99+ percentile SAT) who didn’t even look at the Ivies for undergrad (although she did apply to Stanford, her dad’s alma mater, and was rejected there.) She is headed to an Ivy for grad school, and this is what a lot of her peers choose to do–go to a small LAC for undergrad, and then to a larger university for grad school.
I don’t think this is so much about wanting to be the big fish, but about wanting a more intimate educational experience during the late teen and early adult years.
I didn’t mean that Barnard classes are less academically demanding, but rather that the ‘vibe’ is not the same, in part because Columbia students put a lot of pressure on themselves (Barnard students are overachievers too but there’s a distinct, different “vibe”) and in part because they have the Core whereas Barnard students have a bit more flexibility in their choice of classes.
I’d agree that there is a somewhat different Barnard “vibe” … but it is still a very high stress environment and I don’t think the core or lack of core is a factor. Yes, Columbia students have a specific set of requirements to complete, but Barnard students have their own set of distribution rquirements, and the flexiblity means that many opt to choose more demanding upper-level courses with the intent of laying the foundation for a double major or major/minor. I think the key difference is that Barnard students feel more supported and appreciated by their faculty and administration-- but again, still a very high stress & competitive environment. Plus it is NYC, which itself can represente serious culture shock from anyone coming from other parts of the country. Fine for the kids who are dead set on coming to NY, but again, it doesn’t seem like a fit for a student looking for a more laid-back atmosphere.
The whole point is fit. We know from the OP that the mom and (apparently) daughter prefer a spot closer to home, and that “home” is close to Nashville. (I misinterpreted the original post as meaning that the family was in Tennessee, but I see now from another thread that the OP teaches at Purdue, so that opens up a wider geographical range. ) For another top-20 U, the daughter might look at Washington U in St. Louis, or she might consider Northwestern. (I’m assuming that Chicago is not a good option for less-stress criteria). For LAC’s she might look at Kenyon, Oberlin,or Denison (more selective) or Earlham, Centre, Ohio Wesleyan, Hope, Kalamazoo, Hillsdale (less selective). Plenty of good choices within a reasonable driving distance, and certainly enough to assemble a good list of reach/match/safety schools.
I’d add that the college admission process itself is far more stressful for students who aspire to Ivies. If OP’s daughter is content to attend a school like Belmont, then she can probably assemble a good list of safeties with rolling admissions and secure some spots early on – she can still apply to more selective schools like Vandy, but doesn’t have to stress out all year worrying about whether she’ll get in.
Vandy now has an admission rate of less than 10%. Anyone who tells a kid who is considering Vandy that she ought to apply to an Ivy instead simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. The schools are academically equivalent.
@Massmomm, agree. Our track/xc DD had the chops to get into an Ivy, but had zero interest in what she perceived as an overly stressful environment. Separately, she did a recruiting OV at Swarthmore and left the next day feeling like the stress could be cut with a knife - a great school, but not a great school for her; she’s headed to a highly selective NESCAC LAC to study poli sci/international relations and compete as a varsity athlete - she couldn’t be happier as a smart AND nurturing environment was the right fit for her :">
@calmom, agree. Sometimes when I hear aspirational comments, I am not certain whether it’s the student’s voice or the parent living vicariously through their child - with the number of Ivy acceptances thrown around on CC one would assume the schools have 5,000 students per class. Regardless, life is much more than about attending an Ivy or a top-20 university/LAC.
@drjmom
I think a lot depends on what her plans are for a major, and also for graduate school. In general, I think that attending a top school matters more in humanities than in other majors. If you are an art history major, I think it helps your employment chances if potential employers respect the school.
U of Chicago is a great choice if she’s committed to grad school. Getting kids into good grad schools is what they do best.
Penn could be a good choice if she is determined to work after undergrad, and isn’t interested in grad school immediately. They have generally strong humanities programs, and students also tend to be practical, sociable, hands-on, and planners. That leads to a fair amount of discussion among students about what each others plans are after graduation and the students learn from one another’s experiences.
If she doesn’t want a pressure cooker, two things: try to check your assumptions (not just how stress affected one or two acquaintances who may have had other personal or family issues, could be in a different academic sutuation, or who knows what) and research other sorts of colleges.
That simple. But try to get an accurate picture, for yourselves, not someone else’s experience.
Is she a rising senior? Cuz if she is, some of this exploring seems late in the game. Get the Fiske Guide and dig in to dept strengths, student activity opportunities, internships, campus size. And all the rest, including what it really takes to get an admit (that’s more than stats and lots of activities.) You’ve visited some, but it takes more than that snapshot.
Btw, some college suggestions here are simply not low pressure/low competition. If she doesn’t want what she thinks HYP is like, why suggestions like Penn, WashU, Chicago, etc?
I thought OP is a Purdue prof? Start by running the Net Price Calculator on a few schools’ website. Unless the other parent is a seriously high earner, most academic families cannot comfortably write a $70,000 check every year for 4 years (speaking as an academic family . . . ). So figuring out the financials is the first step.
Look at the instate Honors programs at the public flagships (not sure if that is Indiana/Purdue or Illinois). Then look in the region – Notre Dame loves high stats kids, and is generally a community of “nice” kids, but is quite selective. Same is true of Northwestern. The kids at ND and NW are not dramatically different in stats than the kids at Harvard, Yale etc., so thinking that ND and NW will be dramatically lower stress is not necessarily true.
Being a big fish in a smaller pond can be a huge relief to high achieving kids who have pushed themselves through high school. Loyola or Depaul in Chicago, might be ones to look at. University of Wisconsin is not far from Chicago area and is a superb academic institution with great student life. Hard to be a big fish at UW, but the opportunities for students, from research to internships, are robust. Or Minnesota Twin Cities for a more urban university experience and again, great academics, especially in engineering and sciences. If a student is looking for a smaller school environment, then there is Grinnell (one of my favorite all time schools), a highly collaborative, non-competitive community with excellent academics, or Oberlin, Kenyon and Denison in Ohio.
Bottom line – Ivy league degrees are not “rewards” for the deserving. Many many superbly talented kids do not apply, or do not get in, or choose not to attend, for all kinds of reasons. Finding a community where a student will flourish and have enriching academic, and social opportunities, is the priority.
Only in CC-crazy land.
My kids started developing college lists in the fall of their senior year. Worked out fine, for both.
I’m not recommending waiting that long… but the point is that there’s no particular need to rush.
Calmom, I was referring to some of the core knowledge that helps define directions, not the final lists. Exploring, not deciding. My D1 didn’t visit the school that became her #1 until much later. But we weren’t seeing mailings as vying, were aware of college guides, knew some of the components that would ‘make her happy.’ Other friends’ experiences weren’t altering our views of schools; we were researching various schools/depts and developing her own ideas.
Sorry if that seemed (or seems) harsh to OP. But Sept 1 brings new hs challenges and Dec 31 comes fast.