Need help (long story, sorry)

Parents Forum
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<p>I am a parent of 9th grader in Minnesota and somewhat ignorant about college system in US. I was not born here, went to (a really good) school for 2 years back in my home country and then immigrated to United States with my parents (legally). </p>

<p>I am not sure if I would have made the same decisions now (knowing a little bit mroe about school ranking system in US), but when I immigrated I applied to University of Minnesota School of Technology (which I think is called something else now) and got in right away. I completed by B.S., M.S. and PhD at of UofM. Upon graduating I realized that I probably should have tried to apply to a better graduate school but in the end I got the same job as those graduating from Cornell, MIT, etc. I have to say that luck played a little bit of role in getting the interview in the first place. </p>

<p>Anyway, now is the time to start thinking about what to do with our son. He has ADHD, which is not controlled by medications (there were undesired side effects with medications we tried). He is open-enrolled in one of the best high schools in Minnesota (Minnetonka school district), where he is taking all X (honors) classes that are available as X. He is taking full load at school. He also attends UMTYMP Calculus component program at University of Minnesota (which is very prestigious math program here in Minnesota). Currently he is involved in debate and math teams. He is also a very good piano player (private lessons). He is also involved in parkor (outside of school, new "sport"). During last two summers he volunteered at the local library and he is planning to apply to be hospital volunteer during next summer. He is doing OK in school - he struggles in honors civics class (B-) because he has a hard time expressing his thoughts in the right terms, but everything else is A or A-.</p>

<p>Because of his ADHD, it takes a lot of MY time to get him to do well in school. Thankfully almost all assignments and test dates are available through his school website and I can remind him when the homework is due or when he has to study for a quiz. He has no problem with concentrating during his tests, he usually does significantly better on those than the rest of the class. </p>

<p>Eventually he wants to become a doctor, so his college choice should be the one that makes it easier to get accepted to a good medical school. If he keeps his GPA up and continues to improve his ACT and SAT scores, I think he can get into pretty nice undergraduate schools, but ... here comes the dilemma. </p>

<p>He will not qualify for any financial aid and we will not be able to afford to pay 50K per year some of the better schools would cost. While on paper we look pretty well off, there are certain circumstances that make us less so. </p>

<p>Given how much effort it takes for me to make sure that our son knows when his homework is due, I am afraid that he will fail college if he is out of state.</p>

<p>So the plan is/was that he will apply to PSEO option at UofM in 11th and 12th grade and hopefully get 2 years of college taken care of prior to graduating high school. He then was planning to apply to college of biology at UofM (and try to get in into Honors college). Depending on how he is dealing with ADHD at the time, he might or might not live in the dorm while at UofM. He is planning to get some research internships (paid or unpaid) while at school. I promised him that if he does not get any scholarship money I will cover UofM tuition and living expenses.</p>

<p>We know that admission to medical school is competitive, so we are afraid that even if he does all of the above he will not get accepted to medical school and he stands better chance if he goes to a better school.</p>

<p>In addition, he really enjoys high school life and the clubs. Attending PSEO option would most likely (but not necessary - he is recruiting his friends to apply to PSEO with him) separate him from his friends and make it hard for him to participate in school clubs. If he does not do PSEO, he can go through IB program as 11th or 12th grade to boost his chances in being accepted at better schools.</p>

<p>So here are my questions.
Should he or should he not think about going to a school other than UofM? </p>

<p>If yes, can someone recommend good schools (for pre-med students) that are not very expensive and/or provide some merit scholarships (and where he stands a good chance of getting the scholarship). In addition, it will be nice if the credits he can get at UofM as a PSEO student transferred to a new school. I know Ivies are not going to accept UofM credits, but we are not aiming at Ivies here. </p>

<p>If he tries to apply to a better schools, should he forgo PSEO option and instead pursue IB option (to boost his chances)?</p>

<p>I know that many people are of the opinion that I should let him decide, but apart from his ego telling him that he should try to get into a better school, he told me he is fine at going to UofM as long as he can get in to a decent medical school.</p>

<p>P.S. I forgot to mention, that if goes to a school other than UofM, we are open to both costs and midwest. For some reason I have seen many students from Minnesota going to southern states and transferring out within the first year. (no hard statistics, just anecdotal evidence). I think maybe the cultural differences play some role, but I am not sure. What I do know that we don't want take chances for the same thing happen to our son.</p>

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<p>If your thread title mentioned ADHD, it might attract the attention of parents experienced in those issues.</p>

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<p>Graduating from a public university is not a handicap in applying to med school. I’m sure lots of easily available statistics are out there to reassure you. One of our NY state u’s (Binghamton) sends 12% of its grads to med school. Save the money now, you’ll need it later.</p>

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<p>University of Minnesota (Twin Cities) and University of Wisconsin (Madison) are both excellent schools with relatively low cost for residents of Minnesota.</p>

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<p>lerkin, I’m glad your son is only in 9th grade. After you remind him to do homework through 4 years of high school, 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and his residency, you should have no problem reminding him to to update patient charts, research a new medication before prescribing it, and stay up to date on new medical procedures. </p>

<p>Sarcasm aside, it’s time to start weening him. ADHD or not, you have 4 years to get him ready to handle college on his own. No time to waste.</p>

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<p>You need to slow down. It is waaay premature to be worrying about medical schools! Your son is only in 9th grade–he may think he wants medicine now, but who knows what he will think in a few years? Who knows if he will even be able to get through a pre-med curriculum? Colleges are full of once-intended med students who had to choose another path, and given the apparent severity of his ADHD, med school seems like a far, far, reach in his case. Planning your son’s life around med school admissions at this stage is very unwise. In fact, he shouldn’t make a determination about post-graduate work until after he has spent a couple of years in college to determine his strengths and capabilities and explore all career possibilities. </p>

<p>As a mother of an college student with ADHD, I’ll add that you have no idea how he will function over the next few years–many improve with age (my D was medicated all through high school but now functions well without meds) or whether he can benefit from professional coaching. In addition, the thought that he would have have to attend college instate to successfully cope with his ADHD is an odd concept. Like every other college student with ADHD, he will likely need support from the school’s disabilities office, and when the time comes to look at colleges, strong disabilities services, not location, will have to be your first criterion.</p>

<p>I think you would benefit greatly from one of the organizations focused on children with learning disabilities. This is a great one: <a href=“http://www.smartkidswithld.org/[/url]”>http://www.smartkidswithld.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Kids change enormously from 9th to 12th grade. Don’t assume that your son’s issues and challenges are going to remain constant, or even that he will still want to be a doctor in 4 or 8 years.</p>

<p>If he likes school clubs and doing things with his friends, I question the wisdom of separating him from those, especially if an IB option is available to him in high school. Time is on his side and he may well mature dramatically and develop coping strategies for the ADHD in the next couple of years.</p>

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<p>“He has ADHD, which is not controlled by medications (there were undesired side effects with medications we tried).”
You and he have lots of time yet to find a medication that he CAN tolerate. That should be your priority, as his HS classes will only continue to get harder. His ability to focus and manage his time needs to be improved asap. You will NOT be able to manage him once he is in college.</p>

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<p>Barfly,</p>

<p>when I posted I knew that I might get replies like yours.</p>

<p>I guess you are not familiar with ADHD, because if you were, you would have saved your sarcasm for something else. </p>

<p>To give you an idea… When my son started school, for the first 5 or 6 years the school could not make him sit down during classes. Eventually they gave up and let him stand behind his desk and not use a chair. He now sits at his desk, but he cannot stop moving (although he is trying). As you can see, his condition is pretty severe and we cannot use medication to control it. Having that handicap I think that he does amazingly well in school without any special arrangement or treatment (other than me trying to remind him about his homework). As I mentioned before we are open enrolled and in order to remain in this school district we cannot use their special services.</p>

<p>When he did take ADHD meds he told me that the effect was that everything calmed down in his head and he was able to concentrate on one thing at a time.</p>

<p>Hard as it is, he is trying to be more responsible. As I mentioned he volunteered at the library during the last two years, he did great there - they would not have allowed him to return second year if he was irresponsible during first year.</p>

<p>Where he excels is at UMTYMP program at UofM - it is very structured environment with homework due only once a week. It is his 3rd year, during the first two years he received either A or A+ (the only one from his school who ever got A+ in UMTYMP according to his guidance counselor). He is on track to receive A for Calculus class this semester (which will become A+ on his high school transcript because it is honors college class). Knowing what I know about classes at U of M, he might not need much hand holding during his college years there too, because the homework is not due every couple of days like it is due at high school.</p>

<p>Quiet frankly, if you were walking in my shoes, you would find your post very offensive.</p>

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<p>menloparkmom,</p>

<p>finding a different medication is not possible. According to his doctor, the last medication we tried was the best medication to avoid side effect he was experiencing. </p>

<p>I know that it will be hard to manage him while he is in college. Even if he stays in Minnesota, I would like for him to experience dorm. He, knowing his limitations, said that he will be OK living at home if necessary to keep his grades up at school. </p>

<p>We have several years to evaluate his situation and we know that there is no way he can go to out of state school if his ability to control ADHD does not improve. Living at home gives me more control over the situation.</p>

<p>We also know that while he might dream of becoming a doctor, it might not be possible. He will be getting a degree that will make him employable out of college. He might also go to graduate school instead of medical school if he finds that he enjoys research.</p>

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<p>NJSue,</p>

<p>I understand your point of view completely. The only problem I have with IB program at his school is that academically by the time he reaches 11th grade he will be ahead some of the classes they offer (such as math and physics - he took high school honors physics online through Northwestern University while in 7th grade), yet IB coordinator told me that he still has to take those classes through IB in order to graduate (instead of simply taking IB exam).</p>

<p>IB program is the reason we open-enrolled into this school in the first place. I think it is a great program. On the other hand, the selfish part of me likes the idea of 2 years of college to be “free”. (I know it is not free, but as taxpayer in one of the higher tax brackets here in Minnesota I don’t feel too guilty using that option).</p>

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<p>Despite the sting you may feel from Barfly’s sarcastic description of a future scenario, there is certainly a reasonable lesson hidden in it. </p>

<p>That is, if your son’s ADHD is so severe and untreatable due to side effects, it might be time to start adjusting your expectations. If your constant intervention will be needed for him to keep up such grades through high school, and then college, an illustrious medical career might not be possible for him to attain. </p>

<p>You cannot expect, or want, to have the influence on his study and work habits as a 19 year old as you do now. If he cannot learn to manage his work load by himself, he will not have the grades and skills for professional schools. Right now it seems his grades are a result of your close supervision, which is fine for a ninth grade boy. If he is not able, by the first year of college, to transition into self-management of time and deadlines, he will need your support in examining what sort of career he is capable of handling.</p>

<p>Hopefully, you will find an effective medication he can tolerate and thrive with. Hopefully, he will mature emotionally and be able to independently meet his academic goals sans mom. </p>

<p>Until he does, it might be a bit unfair to burden him (and yourself) with the expectations of medical school admissions. There will be a myriad of other challenges in college besides the demands of academics, such as the distractions of partying, girls, the freedom to skip class or stay up all night playing video games.</p>

<p>Perhaps take one step, and year at a time, and see what he is able to handle on his own. Best of luck.</p>

<p><strong>Crosss-posted with the last commenters–.</strong></p>

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<p>If you can’t afford private tuition and your son needs your help in dealing with his ADHD, then it seems to be a no-brainer that he should go to UM. Their University Honors Program is highly regarded; if he graduates with honors from that program and does well on his MCATs, he should have as good a chance of getting into Med School as someone else from a tonier college. You yourself know that degrees from UM are well-regarded and seem to have gotten you where you want to go. I myself have a Masters degree from UM; I felt that I got a great education that has served me extremely well for the past 20+ years since I graduated.</p>

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<p>I hope he is being seen by a psychiatrist or other specialist who is expert in youth and college age kids. And, I hope you are aware that there have been many recent developments in meds- incl combinations. D2 needed the bumpy, uncomfortable period to find the right solution. Her doc is so on top of the meds that she knows when a change should be expected. And, as well, is qualified to counsel her. The improvement in D2 (now at a great LAC) is confidence-inspiring- we are now nearly entirely hands-off. </p>

<p>I agree that 9th grade is too young to predict. At that age, kids are still developing a sense of self, perspective and their ability to manage on their own.</p>

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<p>Fauve,</p>

<p>I absolutely understand (and agree) what you are saying (and have Barfly not been so sarcastic, I would not have felt compelled to reply the way I did). </p>

<p>It is not my dream for my son to be a doctor, it is his. I want to support him anyway I can, hence my close involvement in his school work. Meanwhile I am trying to ensure that there is a fall back plan (hence requirement to enroll into a degree that will make him employable right of school). </p>

<p>By the way, while my son still attended school in our home school district (we open enrolled in our current school in 8th grade), I had plenty opportunities to allow our school district to specially treat my son (through their special education services because ADHD is considered a disability). I was told that he would have a paraprofessional assigned to him that will be in the class with him, helping him. I was also told that he would be given special considerations during tests. I always refused because my position was that when he grows up nobody would offer special treatment to him. </p>

<p>I realize that it sounds like I substitute special services offered by school with my services in reminding him about his schoolwork. But, it is not exactly the same because I am not there at school helping him during the day. Believe it or not, he used to not turn in his completed homework. There were many occasions where he would fail to follow directions to complete in-school class activities. This is not the case anymore. Either because my son ADHD became less severe with age, or he became more responsible.</p>

<p>We will take one year at a time, however there are some choices that will need to be made in a year or so and I’d like to get as much info as possible now.</p>

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<p>I think that your son is like many kids his age, and thinks he wants to be a doctor. As a parent, I would respond that it is way too early to think about a career, that these things change, and that there are many jobs that he does not even know about. Very young kids want to be fire and police, then in middle school it becomes doctor and lawyer, and they outgrow these stages. It is not a good idea to plan prematurely, especially if it affects stress levels. Maybe you could tell your son to relax about what he does after college, and concentrate on enjoying high school (and later college) years as much as he can.</p>

<p>For high school, I would choose a path where he gets the most support and understanding at school. There are all kinds of ways for a kid who is advanced, to take classes that fit his talents, such as online courses, continuing education courses, college courses and so on. But the general environment of his school home base should be understanding (especially if his ADHD was severe enough to warrant and aide). It would probably be unwise to accelerate him through high school and college with the program that gives 2 years of college during high school. His brain and self-regulation will need the time to develop, no matter how gifted he is in some areas.</p>

<p>As a parent, it helps to understand that accommodations are not really “special treatment,” but that they ensure a level playing field for your son, so that he can do his best work. These accommodations are available at the college level, though at a lesser intensity. Once facing employment, your son will have matured quite a bit, but in the meantime, he has a right to whatever supports help him function best. And having that support at school helps him (and you) wean a little from the support you give.</p>

<p>Medications are a complicated issue. I wonder what the side effect was that prevents him from using any. There are specialists around who use meds that are not often used, for kids who have problems with the usual ADHD meds. For instance, anticonvulsants or even thyroid meds like T3. Has he tried the non-stimulants?</p>

<p>I have, unfortunately, some experience with this in my own family. I will tell you that I like the newer “strengths based” approaches to ADHD. WGBH had a good series on this. Rather than try to fit the ADHD square into a round hole, encourage him to find a hole that fits his shape better, so to speak. My family member is in performing arts, and is at a college that lets all students take classes they want to, so it is possible to balance different types of work over a semester so that it works. It also helps to work with an MD and adviser at the college. A single room may or may not be helpful.</p>

<p>Good luck, and I hope you can focus on what is important in the present. Your son’s brain is still under construction, literally, at this age, and lots of things can happen.</p>

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<p>My S is currently a junior in HS. He has been diagnosed with several conditions that interfere with his ability to concentrate at school - ADD, OCD, anxiety disorder, Aspergers. We also choose not to medicate, except for the anxiety. We have taken advantage of every support the school district has to offer since kindergarten and every day is a struggle. However, it is amazing the leaps and bounds that he has taken since 9th grade. After working with an executive function coach, he now has complete control over his assignments and, to my amazement, seems to be getting them done and turning them in on time. </p>

<p>I remember telling his therapist when he was in 8th grade that there was “no way” that this kid would be able to go away to college, or even live in a dormitory. He couldn’t even dress himself in the morning because he was too distracted. BUT, somehow, something clicked" and now, I am starting to see the possibility of him living independently on his own. </p>

<p>I realize that every kid is different and your experience is unique. But I also think the difference was when I handed over responsibility to the executive function coach and quit micromanaging myself. I had been WAY overfunctioning and S was able to (and had the desire to) learn all the skills and techniques that he needed to survive. He recently got his drivers license and we all (including therapists, coaches and doctors) celebrated!</p>

<p>Good luck with your S. It is a long journey, but it is so rewarding to see the independence.</p>

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<p>Parent of a 9th grade S with ADHD and executive processing issues. Very similar stats to your S. He attends an elite public IB school, takes AP courses, and like your S wasnt even given a chair in grade school. :slight_smile: Still does his HW standing up. My S does not have an IEP- family choice. </p>

<p>S is no longer medicated. His choice. He discussed with our family dr and we are 6 months into a trial period. Puberty hit last year, monster growth spurt, and S has begun to mature. </p>

<p>I do not manage S’s work this year, although he will tell you I nag. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>These are the years to begin handing over control to your S (it is so hard). S is not on his own to get HW done, projects done, and manage all his work. This was an agrement we made when he started High School. He is craving independence (AMEN!) and so far has earned us keeping his work at arms length. The expectation is A’s with maybe a B. </p>

<p>Like MegP, I have been amazed at the transformation in my S this year. I hope to continue to be dazzled. </p>

<p>The way I see it is his performance in HS has to be owned entirely by him. Yes he has this diabillity, and that is a bum deal, but it is the hand he was dealt. It will be harder for him to succeed, but I 100% expect success. </p>

<p>In the end the college he attends will be entirely up to him and will be determined by his efforts this year.</p>

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<p>Why have your son complete two yrs of college in HS? </p>

<p>Barfly had a great point (though sorry you did not agree). Your son is still young. Focus on strategies he can carry over to college. Set him up for independent success, or at least attend a U that will guide him as well.</p>

<p>Sounds like you are doing a great job at keeping your son on target. Aim for more independence by graduation.</p>

<p>MCAT will be a big factor (along with college grades) as to being accepted to med school. A back-up plan is advisable for many.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

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<p>I would also encourage you NOT to have your son complete two years of college while still in high school, particularly if he thinks he might want to attend medical school in the future.</p>

<p>Being young (under age 22) when applying to medical school will put him at an extreme disadvantage. In fact, it will almost guarantee he won’t be accepted. The trend in medical school admissions is toward accepting older applicants with some life experience under their belts who can better relate to their patients (Average age of a MS1 is now 25 and change; and the median age is not far behind at 24.6 years.) </p>

<p>Medical school admission is numbers-driven (MCAT +GPA) and the prestige of the undergrad school isn’t that much of a factor. (BUT, and here’s caveat–MCAT+ GPA will only get him considered for admission. It won’t get him accepted. Once past the initial screening, soft factors: interview skills, LORs, leadership roles, writing skills and the ability to articulate one’s life goals, research & publications, community service–all become much more important than the numbers. And it usually takes more than 2 years of college to acquire all of these.)</p>