Need help navigating "follow your dreams" vs. "follow the money" dichotomy!

I agree with ucbalumnus that if your daughter is frugal enough and can manage money well, she will be “comfortable” and certainly be able to travel, on even a modest income. There is always a cheaper way to do something, and still maintain a comfortable, happy lifestyle.

We had also hoped my D would go into STEM, as she’s historically done well in math and science. She’s also done well in her other subjects. She was pushed pretty heavily into advanced math and science in jr high and high school - mostly by the school counselors’ suggestions - and, of course, now wants to pursue humanities more in college.

As long as she is happy about her own pursuits, and she graduates without debt, I believe she will be fine.

I agree with others that your D may still change her mind after a couple years of college, to go ahead and pursue something in STEM. But, she might not. And yes, your H needs to wrap his head around that. It’s her life.

She can also apply to a liberal arts program with a declared major if she has picked out a tentative area of interest. She’s not making an irrevocable commitment.

In the U.S. system, you can’t take two or three sciences every year without neglecting other subjects that are equally important for college admissions. One science per year is standard. A few students may take two sciences in one of their high school years for special reasons. For example, some students who anticipate that they may want to apply to medical school after college may try to arrange their high school programs so that they include both AP Biology and AP Chemistry. They want as strong a background as possible in those two sciences. Doing this often requires taking two sciences in one year – but only one year.

This is commonly true, although some majors may require starting sequenced prerequisites from the first semester of frosh year in order to be able to declare them. Also, some schools may have some majors filled to capacity, so that declaring them if one is not directly admitted as a frosh to the major may be difficult.

Still, even in the scenario where she applies to schools where one has to indicate a major on the frosh application, that decision is still a few years in the future, if she will be going to a US university (as opposed to one in the UK or India where earlier specialization is typical).

What two or three sciences every year in high school would she be taking? Highly selective US universities typically have the expectation of completing biology, chemistry, and physics in high school, plus one or more advanced (e.g. AP or IB HL) courses according to the student’s interest. Taking eight to twelve total science courses in high school (if the high school even offers that many) is way overboard. More typical is one science per year.

Math should be at least through precalculus; if she completes precalculus before 12th grade, taking calculus if available is preferred.

Of course, substantial humanities, social studies, and arts in high school are also expected to be completed by highly selective US universities.

There are MANY occupations that enable an independent, comfortable life, w travel:

  • foreign service/ diplomatic corp
  • school teacher working the int'l school circuit
  • merchant marine
  • airline industry
  • hotel industry
  • oil industry
  • NGO
  • finance

If the student isn’t especially interested in science, it isn’t even necessary for those advanced courses to include science courses. Nobody’s obligated to sit through AP Chemistry if they consider chemistry the world’s most boring subject.

@GMTplus7 that is a great list.

Here is another thought…by the time this kid graduates from college in seven or so years, there will be career options that are not even available right now.

I think your husband might find it interesting to read about what some well-known colleges have to say about how students should prepare in high school. Some of them have rather extensive discussions of the topic on their Web sites. For example:

http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/prepare.html

https://www.wellesley.edu/admission/faq#course%20preparation

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/preparing-college/choosing-courses

http://admission.williams.edu/apply/

My main point here was to show that if your daughter was to neglect social studies or foreign language (taking only the minimum required for graduation) in order to take the maximum possible number of science courses, she would actually be hurting herself in terms of her chances of admission to these highly selective schools.

I deliberately included two liberal arts colleges here – and they’re among the most distinguished in the country – so you can see if your husband freaks out at the sight of them. Their names are not likely to be well known in India because they aren’t places where people go to get graduate degrees. It might be interesting to see whether this bothers him.


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it is genuinely for her well being. He wants her to be independent. He wants her to be comfortable. He wants her to be able to travel and do all the things she wants to do in her life. For him that means earning a high salary becomes a top priority.

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I think as parents, we all want our kids to be happy, comfortable, and financial secure.
However, there are so many ways (especially in this wonderful country) to achieve this.
Getting a STEM degree from an elite U is not the only path.
As for happiness, in our case, we let our kids decide to do what they love.
As to question of comfort and financial security, I think that’s where we come in.
Both my spouse and I agree that when push comes to shove, we can lend some financial help to our kids if they really need it.

As to GMTplus7’s list, I think we can add high-skilled trade professions too.
Believe me, I don’t think STEM professions are be-all end-all.
Years, ago, my entire engineering team is local. Fast forward to today, the team is mostly in India.
I suspect that my corporate master is probably plotting to ship my job oversea too - we will see.
(why should they pay me good dollars when I am mostly tr*olling CC board )
However, I don’t think we are going to outsource our very competent plumber/auto-mechanic anytime soon.

PS: When I was 14, I wanted to be Ultraman.

I agree with all the comments that go in the direction of understanding there more than one way to do this. With double majors, interdisciplinary majors and the persistent fact that non-stem majors have a big upside potential while most stem majors top out, you may be able to encourage him to be more flexible. I recommend Steve Jobs’ Stanford 2005 speech for him.

OP, your husband is being a good father: based on his culture and experience, he’s pushing your daughter into fields he believes will give her the best shot at a good career with good financial prospects.

So now it’s your turn to be a good mother: to educate HIM on how American universities work, with their preference for well rounded applicants, their general education requirements and the possibilities of double majors. Once he realizes the sheer number of options and possibilities in the American system he may lighten up on your daughter. Or at least turn down his vocal recommendations she focus on STEM and STEM alone.

You could also hint that in this culture, children are expected to make up their own minds about such issues as schools, majors and careers.

Too much parental pushing often results in the kiddo’s rebellion - rebellion that is often culturally applauded as signifying independence and self-direction.

Post #29, let’s not exaggerate, most STEM majors do not necessarily top out. 30% of CEOs have undergraduate degree in engineering, and that just the E in STEM. However I think this kid is too young to narrow down her career choice at this age.

Adding to @Marian’s great list of links, here is what MIT says about how to get in:

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/there_is_no_formula
http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways

What did most of your husband’s friends major in college, and what are they doing now? One issue for my parents (who are also Indian immigrants) is that they literally do not know anyone with a successful career that majored in humanities or social sciences. The vast majority of their friends are software engineers and professors, and their kids tend to major in STEM subjects, and are usually pre-med. So even though they “know” that one does not need to major in STEM to gainfully employed, it’s hard for them to believe it since they don’t actually know anyone who took that path.

Also, I don’t think you need statistics that show that three science classes a year will close off options. This is pretty much impossible to even do at most schools.

A little more background -

We live in India.

My daughter is in an IB/IGCSE school.

In 9th and 10th she will have Biology, Chemistry and Physics as well as advanced Math.

In IB she only can take six subjects. She will most likely do HL - Math, English, Theatre and Economics with SL science and SL Language.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to answer…many of you have given me lots to think about!

Will your daughter be applying as an international student to U.S. colleges, or does she have U.S. citizenship?


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while most stem majors top out, >>>

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What does this mean? top out at what?

@myyalieboy

I don’t think it really matters whether she is in a British system or an American system. There are just too many careers now that it’s just not reasonable to expect all smart 14 year olds (or even all smart 18 year olds) to know what they want for a career AND to be passionate about it.

I think the first good thing is the man agreed to forgo doctor. I think he knows how things work in the US and reasoning with him prabably will not work. You need to conquer his heart.

Eh. She’ll probably do what she wants to do ultimately anyway, or make herself sick trying to be something she’s not.

Just a datapoint: I’m mom of a 2016 HS grad. I work in tech, Fortune 100 company, pretty senior position with a comfortable salary. (No need-based aid coming our way.) I love my job. My undergrad degree: History. When I’m interviewing and hiring people, I look for liberal arts majors, because they invariably write and think in wildly different ways. STEM grads are great, but the diversity of thought and approaches to problems that come from our liberal arts folks can’t be beat.