Very good points, @JHS (yeah, the overtone of cultural chauvinism in this thread really bothers me).
Since we are talking about money, here is an interesting article on yahoo today:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/want-wall-street-banker-heres-130052367.html
i bet most of those IB’s (different from the kind of IB discussed here :o) ) has non-STEM degrees.
However, they probably graduate from tippy-top colleges, though.
And the more likely / greater chance to change your mind and/or be unhappy with what you’ve chosen at age 14.
He is raising an American child in the United States. That alone should tip the scales in favor of the way American students typically approach college. It is very hard for an American child to oblige the immigrant parent in ways that are counter to what the child has absorbed in the environment she grew up in
This. I have nephews who are in their late 20s. They are both in careers that did not exist when they were 14. And are doing very well, I might add. And travel a lot.
“He is raising an American child in the United States”
If you are referring to the OP that is not correct.
they are all currently living in India. The Dad is from India originally and the mom and daughter have American citizenship.
They hope to send their DD to America for her college education.
@JHS - first time I have been called a pussycat! Thank you for your response. Yes, you have put your finger on the crux of the problem. HOW to have that discussion without falling into the traps of the overgeneralization of cultural stereotypes. What are the productive arguments that can be had regarding allowing a child to delay choosing a path? What are the ways that it is beneficial? Emotionally healthy?
I will continue to try and puzzle this out!
@brantly not quite. We are raising a mixed culture child in India. She will return to the US for college but for now we are in a very international community and she is in an international school.
“What are the productive arguments that can be had regarding allowing a child to delay choosing a path?”
Most American universities dont require Freshman applicants to designate a preferred major. In fact, at many college, students often don’t have declare a major until the beginning of their JUNIOR year, when most will be 19-20 years old! So there is NO need to decide 5-6 years in advance. To force a 14 year old child to do so is completely unnecessary [if not ridiculous].
“What are the ways that it is beneficial?”
As many have pointed out, teenagers can and often DO change their minds, depending on the week, who they have talked to, what they have read, which way the wind blows, etc,etc.
The INTEREST to pursue a path, and pursue it WELL, needs to come from THE STUDENT, not because a decision was imposed on them at an early age because of how their parents were raised.
Again, if she will be getting her college education in the US, then let her decide, in college, what path she wants to take, like her classmates are allowed to do.
Interestingly this popped up today
I think it explains the trouble I am having - the utility vs. utopia roles of higher education.
All of life is that same problem of trying to feed the mind and soul while still feeding the body.
Why we think college should be any different is a complete mystery to me.
Going to school without a solid 4 year plan is basically a luxury good. If there’s money for that kind of luxury, then super!
Mostly, though, the money doesn’t support that kind of luxury.
Sorry. I wrote that after only reading the first page or so of this thread, before it came up that you live in India.
I always wonder about this: Why can’t an interest-based major drive the career, instead of backing into a major by choosing a career first? In other words, if a student loves English Literature, why not major in it and then choose a career that values that major? I can name dozens of jobs that an English Lit major can do: corporate communications, advertising, public relations, sales, publishing, journalism, web content creation, paralegal, ad sales, book promotions, nonprofit management, et al.
@brantly, I do agree with you to a certain extent. For English Lit type majors, it really helps to be at a college with a well-respected department that attracts some recruitment and assists with placement. Otherwise, you are pounding the pavement and resume-sending with lots of other people. Whereas the STEM kids tend to get more on-campus recruiting. OTOH, can’t make a horse fly, right? If English Lit is your thing, then that’s probably what you need to be doing in some fashion.
Agree^^
I’ve done a lot of thinking about these types of topics. In general (although not in 100% of cases), I like the idea of choosing what you want to study based on how interested you are in studying that subject for four years. Then choose a career for which that course of study would be valuable. OR study whatever you want to study plus take prerequisites for a profession-based grad school, like med school, business school, speech therapy, or whatever you think is practical and interesting.
However, if the student is in an IB school and will attend a US university, commitment to specialization (college major) need not be made now. The utility versus utopia question may be relevant in the choice of academic path, but does not require an early decision.
As of now, the only thing close to such a decision would be selecting which IB courses to take HL versus SL (as I understand it, a IB student is limited to 3 or 4 HL subjects and 2 or 3 SL subjects). But even SL would not leave the student “behind” if she decides to change major to something based on one of the SL subjects instead of one of the HL subjects (she would be at normal frosh level instead of possibly having advanced placement).
Decision points that require more commitment come later:
Note that only the last of the above is really a commitment to the major. Even then, some students change major later than sophomore year in college. But that is more likely to come at the cost of needing extra semesters to graduate in the new major.
@ucbalumnus makes an important point here.
For an IB student who is going to attend a US university, the selection of subjects doesn’t rule out any future college majors. This is quite different from the situation for an IB student who is going to attend a British university, who may have to take a specific set of HL courses to qualify for a specific program of study.
It can and it often does, @brantly. In fact, everyone in my family (my husband, myself, and our two kids, both of whom are beyond college now) chose our majors this way (math, biology, computer science, and economics, respectively), and we all found ways to earn a living.
But there are some careers that require specific majors. Engineering, nursing, and accounting come to mind. If you think only about your interests and how they fit into majors, without also taking into account the link between majors and career paths, you may accidentally rule out some careers you might have liked to pursue.
What I meant by STEM majors topping out is that while many start their career with higher salaries than non-STEM majors so, the many of them do not stay equally ahead throughout the span of a career.
Unless a student is seriously considering a STEM career that requires a STEM undergrad degree and not just a STEM grad degree, it can be a solid approach to aim to come out of college with the gen eds, management, marketing, media skills, some artistic skills, and the basic office skills. With the right internships, a student can head in many different directions for a career with that educational background.
Most college graduates of any major (STEM or non-STEM) “top out” in pay at some point in their careers. Vanishingly few of them (STEM or non-STEM majors) keep going upward to “CEO of large corporation” pay levels.
Really, this is not something that distinguishes STEM and non-STEM majors, though some specific majors in each category may be unusually high or low Gini.
Are you suggesting that it would be desirable for people with an interest in STEM graduate degrees to major in non-STEM subjects as undergraduates?
I know that this happens sometimes, but I’m wary of the idea of doing it deliberately. The student would need to make up a huge amount of missed coursework before being ready to apply to the graduate program, and this takes a lot of time and money.
With regards to the cultural issues surrounding college choice, it can be more difficult to have that dialog living in India as OP’s husband may not be exposed to the pre-college thinking prevalent in American high schools (my guess - but I could be wrong). If the student can gain admission to a good liberal arts college, and can find good internships, there is no reason to decide on a career track now. Growing up bicultural, and perhaps bilingual, OP’s child has advantages in a global economy. Summer work in areas of interest can solidify a career track after one is in college.