Need Parental Advice- mine are crazy

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>I'd like some help seeing things my parents' way in this "dispute". So any advice from the parents here is very appreciated. (:</p>

<p>A little background: my parents used to push me academically, A LOT. Until last year, junior year, I'd get lectured for any grade under a B, often for grades under an A- as well. A common line in these lectures was "your grades are only good enough to get you into X State College" (there is a state college the next town over; X State in this thread for privacy reasons). Last year they stopped lecturing me about my grades, I assume because they finally realized I was trying my hardest and I'm just not a straight-A student. Now, despite this, they've always been supportive of me. I plan to major in musical theatre in college, and they pay for voice lessons, dance classes, etc. </p>

<p>I'm a senior now and I don't know why, but all of a sudden they're putting immense pressure on me to apply to X State College. I think it has a lot to do with money- I'm a National Merit Commended Student and I won the Adams Scholarship, which means I get free tuition at most state schools in Massachusetts, including X State. This school actually has quite a good theatre program- I often go to their shows. I just do not want to go there. In my mind, it's associated with failure, for two reasons: first, because my parents would always tell me that I was going to end up there when I did poorly in school, and also because I know several theatre majors there who only matriculated there because they were rejected at the big theatre schools. It's also way too close to home. I don't want to go far away (the farthest school I'm applying to is six hours away) but I also definitely don't want to be five minutes from home. </p>

<p>I have a little brother. He's a freshman. But he's also a great baseball and hockey player, and is a better student than I am. And he doesn't have any qualms about going to state school, because the parents didn't push him the way they pushed me. I can understand if they're a little worried because obviously he's a freshman and they have no idea whether he'll get the Adams Scholarship or be National Merit too (I bet he will) or whatever, but I've made it clear that even if I get accepted into, say, NYU or Boston Conservatory, if I don't get enough financial aid, I'll go somewhere more affordable. I'm financially responsible- I've been consistently employed since fall of sophomore year, and I fully intend to work during college as well, provided I have the time.</p>

<p>I just don't know what my parents are thinking right now. They know I have no desire whatsoever to go to X State, or even UMass. I applied to a state school, just to shut them up, but I'm afraid that they'll give me tons of aid and I won't be able to turn them down with a guilt-free conscience. They're just making me absolutely crazy, and I don't know what to say to them. Advice?</p>

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<p>I think that you should apply to the financial safety, which you did. See if you can find some more financial safeties. Sit down and ask what they are willing and can afford to pay for your education. Apply to schools where you might get merit aid, if money is the issue. You don't need to decide which school you will attend until May 1. Just make sure that you have options that you can make work for you come this spring. Once your financial and merit awards are on paper, it might make your decision easier. Also, apply to your dream school, but don't fall in love with it. Wait until the financial info is in.</p>

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<p>Perhaps they just want you to have a wide range of schools so you won't be disappointed with "no place to go" next September. There are stories like that.</p>

<p>Advice: Try to take a deep breath and walk through this year one step at a time. If you are a theater person (I have 2 kids going into this field professionally, I hope...) you know that it is essential to learn to live in the moment, and be present.</p>

<p>You don't have to know the entire outcome. You may or may not get in to some of the big theater schools. The X state school may or may not give you lots of finaid. </p>

<p>You can't know much until all the acceptances come in, and the financial aid offers, so your parents can see what's in front of them.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, they might have financial worries they aren't sharing with you because parental jobs go up and down like a rollercoaster, and you might not know the half of it. </p>

<p>So, what if you came to them in the most mature way possible. I tell my kids, "If you feel like you're in a conflict with someone else pulling a rope like a tug-of-war, drop the rope and get them to come over to the same side with you. Put the problem on the other side of the rope and look at it together.</p>

<p>Say, We both recognize that there's a lot of uncertainty in the coming year. I need to keep my focus on my auditions, applications and schoolwork. We're not understanding together what is the goal here. Can you share with me more of what you are thinking on finances? Are you just wanting to make sure I have a true safety or are you planning to not let me go if I get into someplace incredible? What am I not understanding here?</p>

<p>Then listen, as every good actor must learn to listen to the others in the scene.</p>

<p>See if you can find ways to understand what is on their mind, ask them to listen to you about what's on your mind, and say you really need their honesty and support this year to concentrate well on the best RANGE of choices.</p>

<p>I think they'll be knocked over by that maturity, and decide maybe it's time to work as a team with you (not against you) on this project of applying to colleges. </p>

<p>Tell them this is HARD for you and the hardest thing you've had to do yet, and you need them to work with you. </p>

<p>I am guessing they just know how hard it is to get into some places and want you to have a big range for safety...but if they have serious financial problems, you might want to know about that now, too. Still apply, because there is the possibility of financial aid. If they've never filled out a FAFSA form yet, they're scared, too! There are some threads on this site to help them get a grip on their Expected Family Contribution, so that might also help them rather than to engage in free-floating anxiety.</p>

<p>ALso,,do you have both audition and non-audition schools on your college list?
I'm sure you've studied the great Musical Theater thread (under CC, Majors) but if not, check it out.</p>

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<p>Why not look at other theatre programs, leaving out the finances, and see what the positives and negatives are. If you look at your state school and other schools objectively, that might help you make a good decision. If school "y" will offer opportunities that you won't get at your state school, you can calmy sit and explain what y is offering that UMass is not. Your parents might agree with you that Y might be the best choice, but might not be worth 10k/yr. more, but might be worth 2k more. You might just find that you can get a very good education at UMass. Maybe you can strike a deal with your parents not to show up unannounced, or too often if you go to school close to home. BTW, there are advantages to being close to home too. You can have your parents take care of you when you are sick, get that home cooked meal now and then, and you can do your dirty laundry at home to save money, etc.</p>

<p>I cross posted and agree with paying3's post. I just wanted to add that when you apply to other schools check to see if they are profile schools and get that form completed on time. Also, look to see if there are any scholarships that you can try out for as a theatre major.</p>

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<p>Take a look at Hampshire College in Amherst, as a place where you could pursue a senior capstone project in theater, participate in productions on the campus of Amherst College, UMass, Smith or Mt. Holyoke. </p>

<p>They have a black box theater on the Hampshire College campus, and many creative people there. You might be able to get IN and then you're in a fine
region with five colleges and shuttles connecting them all. Lots of stage opportunities, althoug perhaps more in drama than musical theater UMass has the musical theater strength, actually. Amherst is strong in Theater, Smith and Mt Holyoke in dance. But anyone can audition for any of their shows. You can enrol in any of the 5-college-consortium courses. There might be limitations from UMass students to go to the courses on the othe 4 campuses, but Hampshire was created in order to promote the 5-college experience. Plus, they have their own courses and stageset.</p>

<p>I also hear good things about Muhlenberg for MT, and Ithaca College...but you probably know all of this already.</p>

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<p>My cousin went to Carnegie-Mellon for Musical Theater. She got the maximum amount scholarship based on non-need. They have an excellent program and there is a lot of need-based aid if your parents have financial difficulties (which is not that rare when you consider $50,000 per year college costs at many schools). We are in the same quandary where state-school will cost close to nothing with all the merit incentives as opposed to Ivies with little or no aid. Need to have a down to earth conversation with your parents.</p>

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<p>I, too, would highly recommend the MT forum. If MT is your dream, then there are so many more variables that will impact where you go than location and finances. If you are set on being financially responsible and staying within six hours, you are limiting yourself if you want to attend a place that provides excellent training. You really need some non-audition safety schools as options. Remember that being accepted into most MT programs is weighted more heavily on auditions than academic achievements, especially the conservatories. The ones that are more equal on talent and academic achievements are UMich (farther away than you want, so it doesn't matter) and NYU. I don't think your grades will get you any merit aid at NYU, unless you have a need base. My D is at Muhlenberg training for MT; if you have any questions about it, please feel free to PM me, but (not knowing the East coast all that well) I think Allentown might be beyond the six hour range from Massachusetts (depending on where you are).</p>

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<p>I've been reading the MT forum- and Muhlenberg is actually on my list (it's about 5 hours and 45 minutes from here). (: I have a good mix of schools, I think- two non-audition schools (one a match, one a safety), and of the audition schools, I feel very confident about getting into two of them, and the rest I think could go either way, except for one, which I doubt I have a popsicle's chance in hell of being admitted. I know my performance strengths, and I built my list accordingly. Nobody in my family is artistically inclined at all, and my parents both think I'm the best (I'm certainly not- not even in my school) and they're not worried about me being rejected because of my audition. (I am, but I have a motto: "whatever happens, happens for a reason, and everything will turn out for the best.")</p>

<p>I mean, I understand why they'd jump at the chance to pay only $7,500 instead of, say, $32,500 a year for college. I'd definitely go to state school if I was paying my own way, but I'm not. (And now I feel like a selfish brat for saying that).</p>

<p>I've told them multiple times that I don't want to go to X State. They mostly stopped bothering me about it, except for remarks when I get things in the mail from the school, but every time we drive by it, they'll make a joke like "Look, there's your future school!" I feel like they're telling me that I'm a failure and I should just give up and go to X State because at least then when I spend however many years trying to get paid work in the theatre and am living in a box, I won't have to worry about paying off student loans.</p>

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<p>First, If you have a place you really want to go to and your parents for what ever reason legit or not, don't see that way, then be willing to do it yourslef..If you can fullfil your wants by yourself, you need no one's blessing to do so. </p>

<p>Could some of your feelings about the school where you could basically go for free be a way to poke your parents? Could you be cutting your nose off to spite your face? As I read your post I got that strange vibe. </p>

<p>"I think it has a lot to do with money" Bingo! most things do in this world. </p>

<p>"my mind, it's associated with failure,"</p>

<p>entirely up to you. People succeed and fail at every college and university in the world. Your college experience is entirely up to you. </p>

<p>I don't know if I am just reading you wrong, but I would suggest you reflect deeply as you make decisions. 10-20 years from now, is evening the score with mom and dad going to be worth it?</p>

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<p>My other advice (remember I have a son who really does live in NYC, acts off off Broadway, and all that)...equally important to how much you'll get to work in theater after you graduate is having a marketable skill to turn into a day job.
It can be professional photography (work for a wedding photographer, newspaper...), dental hygienist, tax return specialist, computer-related.. anything but while you're in college take some coursework or do jobs that will let you do something for a living other than wait tables when you graduate. </p>

<p>You will last much, much longer in the post-college world and get to explore opportunities in regional theater, etc. if you can make a living with some flex-schedule, high per hour wage type situation. That's what has really helepd my S as much as his talent and training (he was a theater and music major). His two day jobs are language teaching (Hebrew) and commercial photography. He doesn't have to work too many hours per week and can always find a classroom to teach the Hebrew to kids. He started doing this as his offcampus job as a sophomore. The photography, well, I don't think he took courses in it but just worked with it a lot and found outlets for this work in NYC when he got there. Sometimes he goes into a bar and shoots couples and sells them the photo, whenever he needs an infusion of cash. He also bought himself a nice camera upon graduation from college. </p>

<p>So that skill training for your dayjob is equally important to the MT courses, IMHO. You might, for example, minor in a foreign language where there's need for translation work; Spanish or Arabic might have lots of employment in translation, but check it all out at your college's career cetner early enough to do coursework in it.</p>

<p>I think the theater profs will also tell you this at college, too, but believe it: the day job is essential. It will let you explore being in theater post-college.
Waiting tables actually works because it is flexible hourly and they don't schedule far in advance, so if you get a show you can bow out of a wait-job. But it's not the only kind of day job, it's the one everyone's heard of.</p>

<p>Another thing that helped my S is not buying a car. And continuing to have roommates after college, just basically living much more frugally than others in his graduating class need to do. He embraces it.</p>

<p>Does anything on your parents mind have to do with how hard it is to earn a living in MT? Some parents recognize it's a delightful college major but don't expect the student to pursue it afterwards, which is fine. It's a great way to go through college, nuff said. </p>

<p>Other parents worry about the life of the actor, "living in a box" etc. If that's on their mind, reassure them that you're working up a marketable commercial skill for your day job, so they know you're thinking sensibly.</p>

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<p>Can you just sit down with your parents and say, "All my life you've been threatening me that if I fail at academics, I'll have to go to School X. Now you're pushing me to go to School X. It makes me feel like you think I'm a failure. So that colors my view of School X. Can you tell me why you want me to go there so strongly?" See what they say. </p>

<p>It may be as simple as, "We know that life in musical theatre is iffy, and it's hard to make a living. We don't want you to be saddled with a lot of debt that will require you to give up your dream just to support yourself and pay off your student loans." It may have nothing to do with your abilities. But you'll never know if you don't talk about it.</p>

<p>(And by the way, if you're tops academically, Muhlenberg can be very generous with merit aid.)</p>

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<p>You've gotten some great advice on this thread already. It is very hard to know what's going on without hearing your parents' end of it. Paying3tuitions gave you some questions and ways to approach your parents and also Chedva made a good suggestion about asking them why they want you apply to the local state college. </p>

<p>I can't tell from your post what the issue is for your parents. It may be financial but I can't tell, since they are letting you apply to all these other schools (which is a good sign for you as perhaps you will get need or merit aid). Ask them if you'd be allowed to attend these other schools or what the financial parameters are.</p>

<p>However, I am not positive if this issue with your parents is financially based on what you have shared thus far. It could be....but I am guessing....that they know how HIGHLY competitive BFA in MT schools are and they feel less anxiety by your adding a safety net school, which they feel should be local state. Or, could they possibly be not so supportive of the BFA in MT path itself? Do they support your pursuit of a BFA in MT? I don't know enough to comment on what's going on here. </p>

<p>If they simply want to make sure you have a safety....discuss how the safety for you, needs to be a non audition BA that still has good theater, and preferably MT, and this need not be local state. You did say you have two non audition BA schools and one IS a safety for you .....GOOD! I don't know your qualifications and which schools you mean but that sounds wise. </p>

<p>Also, while not a total safety since there is an audition, but have you looked into Salem State for MT? While there is an audition, it is not a competitive BFA school and I imagine the price tag is better than the BFAs on your list. Same with Plymouth State, and audition-based BA. Either of those would be good to add to the list.</p>

<p>In any case, you need to talk to your parents to find out the financial parameters. Also, find out if they support your college list and the BFA in MT path. Are they just rightfully anxious at the long odds and want you to have fall backs? Can you discuss appropriate fall backs? Fall backs don't have to be local state. Ask them why they want you to add local state? Do they just want you to have options or are they not supportive of the rest of your list? Have a heart to heart about your list....the odds of admissions, the financial parameters (though remember you may get need based or merit aid so the price tag alone is not the thing to go by yet), and if they support the MT major, etc. They may want the state school ONLY as a back up and will not make you go there if you have a better or more suitable option. Don't assume they'd make you attend. They only asked you to apply. You really do need to find out what's behind their pressuring you to apply to local state and once you understand their concerns or reasons, go from there. You can come back here once you learn more from them. Right now, it is too hard to advise you without understanding the issues on their end. So, take the advice of others here about questions to pose to your parents.</p>

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<p>I think your parents simply learned a tough lesson. Don't diss (or threaten with) the state school. It might be the only one you can afford when it's all said and done.</p>

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<p>Opie ofMaybery2, I'm not trying to "even the score" with my parents. I'm trying to figure out why they're all of a sudden putting pressure on me to apply to this particular school. If they were pressuring me into applying to a UMass, I would KNOW it's a money problem, but since it's this particular school, I have no idea what the heck is going on. It probably is partially financial, I have no doubt, but what else? Do they want to keep me close to home, despite their threats of "if you go to college close by, we won't let you come visit very often because we don't want to do your laundry"? Do they just think they're being funny by telling me that I should go to this school? I'm not a parent; I don't know.</p>

<p>my parents have always been supportive about everything I do. We've had brief discussions about me majoring in theatre, and they've never once expressed anything negative about it. Rather, they're excited (or my mom is, anyway- my dad's not really into the arts) to see me on Broadway someday (when my mom said that, I laughed). When we toured my first choice school, my mom was really enthusiastic about me potentially going there... and it wasn't just her being generally pro-whatever I want, because we toured another school I really liked, and she was quick to say she didn't like x and y and z.</p>

<p>ETA: soozievt, I tried to PM you but your inbox was full.</p>

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<p>chelly...ASK them why they want you to add the local state school. Without knowing the reason, it is hard to advise you further. Ask if you got in there, would you have to go? Is it just a financial and admissions fall back? If you need a financial or admissions fallback, are they willing to look at others that appeal more to you? Sounds like your mom is supportive of your going into MT and even likes your first choice school. This may not all be as bad as you think. Find out their reasons and their wishes and any restrictions and go from there.</p>

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<p>We may be parents, but we don't know why, either - each person, each family is different. </p>

<p>Maybe it's your parents' way of trying to protect you from disappointment if you don't get into your first choices? Maybe they're trying to cushion a blow - "Look how good this school that you're sure to get into is". They may be going about it the wrong way, but isn't it better to give them the loving benefit of the doubt? At least until you actually ask them?</p>

<p>Asking us why your parents act a certain way isn't going to get you very far. Only they know why, and only they can tell you.</p>

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<p>"I won the Adams Scholarship, which means I get free tuition at most state schools in Massachusetts, including X State"</p>

<p>dearheart, this is probably a big factor in what's going on. Unless your folks have money lying around the house, an offer of a free undergrad education is very, very and I mean very difficult to turn down. </p>

<p>Even if you have money, an offer of a free education is.. yada yada yada..</p>

<p>You may not be privy to your folks finanical situation or their fears and they simply may not tell you directly. But if you have a scholarship that pretty much gives you a free education in your home state.. it's gotta be a great offer to beat it out. </p>

<p>I have no idea about your relationship with your folks, you've said they've been supportive, but at the same time you say they are pressuring you.. is it supportive when it's your way and pressure when it's not? </p>

<p>It would seem to me, given your adams scholarship that you could find something instate to make the best of the situation. Who knows maybe if ma and pa are freed up from undergrad costs, post grad might get some help...</p>

<p>Before you get all defensive about my comments, go back to my first sentence.. "If you have a place you really want to go to and your parents for what ever reason legit or not, don't see that way, then be willing to do it yourslef..If you can fullfil your wants by yourself, you need no one's blessing to do so. "</p>

<p>If you had to pay the way yourself, would you or would you use your scholarship? If yes you'd pay your own way, what's the problem? go for it. If you'd use the scholarship, why would your parents be different?</p>

<p>A peer of my s, was a nmf (1590 2nd try) turned down tons of free rides all over the country to attend his dream school with some merit help.. folks took on 100,000 in debt for him to do this.. follow his dream and study choices...</p>

<p>At the end of the four years my S, and the other part of the trio had their undergrad pretty much paid for and they each started med school with almost zero debt.. the dream follower graduated, couldn't really find work in his area of study and has taken an entry level job for an insurance company in mass. Meanwhile his parents are paying off 100k, kinda kicking themselves now because they should have said something then... </p>

<p>I am not saying that your dream choice will end out like his, but I am saying if you feel strongly enough to walk away from a generous scholarship to any school in your state, they you should also feel strong enough to do it yourself. Then you don't have to worry about blessing... only debt. </p>

<p>Is a long term debt, worth more than a free undergrad education? If it was your money........... would you? Yes? then use your own money and go for it.</p>

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<p>Make sure you check out that Adams scholarship carefully. It is only for TUITION. At UMass-Amherst, tuition only accounts for about 15% of annual costs. </p>

<p>UMass has huge mandatory fees, including a "curriculum fee" that sounds suspiciously like tuition to me. The Mass state legislature controls tuition, and won't raise it for political reasons. The universities can't survive on that low tuition, so their trustees raise the mandatory fees.</p>

<p>I don't know which Mass state college you are referring to, but check their website carefully for "TUITION" as opposed to all their other fees. The Adams Scholarship will only pay the TUITION part, not the other mandatory fees. It's not worth nearly as much money as former-gov Romney would have you believe. (I just checked the UMass website and they've gotten sneaky, they list "tuition/fees." Last year they listed them separately, tuition was about $1500 and the fees were $8000ish. This year they've combined them for a total of $9921. I find that pretty misleading.) Last year I figured out my son's Adams scholarship would have saved us 11% of the cost of him attending UMass annually.</p>

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<p>Opie,
I do not know what the situation or thoughts are of chelly's parents. While what you say about a free ride vs. tuition, makes sense in many ways for lots of kids, this young lady is pursuing a BFA in Musical Theater. Most colleges do not offer a BA in Musical Theater as there are very few BA degree programs specifically in MT. As well, saying to save the money up for grad school doesn't entirely fit the situation for someone aiming for MT. There are hardly ANY grad school programs specifically for MT. There are MFA programs for straight theater. I am not saying this girl must get a BFA in MT as there are many paths to going into the field. But there is no comparison of going to local state U that has no MT program and a school that has a BFA in MT. The situation you describe is different. If a kid wants to major in English, they can weigh a free ride at X state school vs. a big price tag at Y school. Both will yield a BA in English. If a kid wants to study engineering and local state U doesn't offer that but parents want kid to attend for the free ride, that is apples to oranges from the kid getting an engineering degree elsewhere. I don't know what chelly's local state U offers and I think she said they have theater and maybe that will suffice. It won't be MT and it won't be a BFA. She doesn't HAVE to get a BFA but that is the kind of degree program and training she appears to be seeking. So, attending a cheaper school to study the same thing is one thing but to attend a cheaper school to not really get to do what you are seeking and for which there are no grad programs, is another.</p>

<p>Not even nearly the same as what Chelly's situation is....my older kid was automatically offered a free ride to our state flagship which is a darn good school, by virtue of this scholarship being given to every val in the state. She had no intentions of applying. Not even dealing with the type of education or appropriateness of fit, I can say that the school does not offer her intended major, nor could she participate in her main EC passion/sport. It may have been free and many would say hard to pass up, Honors College and all, but it not only was not a good fit for her for many reasons, but she could not have studied what she wanted to, nor participated in her main EC passion. </p>

<p>In Chelly's case, she cannot put MT off to a grad school degree. She can still go into MT but she is looking at an entirely different type of degree program at local state U from the kinds of programs she was striving for. However, I don't blame her parents for wanting a non audition safety school (I have no idea what their concerns or reasons are for this school as she has not been able to articulate or know what those are, however).</p>

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<p>I was also going to mention the value of the Adams Scholarship. For example, someone mentioned Salem State College. 2007-2008 in-state tuition for Salem State is only $910 out of an estimated COA of $16,000. Not exactly a "free ride". With the merit aid she ultimately got, my d could have gone to a private school for less (she also qualified for the Adams).</p>