No Bullying Policies and Protecting the rights of "different" students

Parents Corner
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<p>My DS told me that an openly gay male student attended a Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting last week. I asked what sport the student participated on. The answer was none. Being an athlete is not a requirement for attending the before school meetings. I don't have a problem with that. </p>

<p>DS also shared some "rumors" about this gay student's "protected rights". I quickly reminded my DS that what he heard were rumors not facts. If there is any truth to these rumors, I don't think I can sit quietly and turn a blind eye. </p>

<p>Rumor:
1) this male student is allowed to use the girls restroom to put his make-up on. </p>

<p>2) if any student is caught teasing/bullying the gay student, the bully will be issued a 3 day out of school suspension.</p>

<p>3) the gay student has supposedly made "hits" (flirted) on other hetorosexual male students in front of their peers. </p>

<p>I support punishing teen bullies. Policies are enacted to protect our children. But where do administrators draw the line? The "No Bullying" policy did not protect my DS this past spring. Both my DS and the bully recieved 3 days of OOS suspensions followed by 3 more days of in school suspension. Here is what happened:</p>

<p>My DS has tourettes. He has been mocked by his "friends" and peers from time to time and my DS has tollerated the teasing for years.<br>
DS says his friends have imitated the "tic of the day" at the lunch tables and open commons. This scenario may last a minute or two. On the particular day last spring, DS's friend (also a teammate on the Varsity Wrestling Team) would not let up. Keep in mind my DS weighed 120# dripping wet compared to the bully who was a 165# stud! The mocking continued for five minutes. My DS had had enough! DS picked up his pencil bag and flug it (like a frisbee) toward the bully. The pencil bag hit the guy in the face. The bully just reacted. He stood up and punched my DS in the nose. They are guys - no hard feelings - point made right? The problem did not become a problem until my son had to go to the nurse to clean up his bloody nose. The blow to the nose was bad enough that my DS left a trail of blood from the lunchroom to the front office/clinic. My son did not have any intension of reporting the friend or the incident. When the nurse asked my DS how he got the bloody nose, DS told the truth. The Dean of students was called in to the clinic by the nurse. The Dean called for the friend to report to the front office. Both boys stories relayed the same chain of events. BOTH boys were issued the same punishment. When I got the call from the Dean of Students I was beside my self. I asked the dean to explain why the "victim" is not allowed to protect/defend himself from a bully. Technically, my DS violated the "unauthorized contact" policy. The school followed their policy. We on the other hand did not punish our DS. We told him we were proud of him and treated the 3 day OOS suspension like vacation days. DS and the bully are still friends and teammates. DS has gained the respect he deserves. DS may be small and have weird tics but he is bright, funny, strong and self confient. The school's "no bullying" policy did not protect DS. DS defended himself in a manner he saw fit. Three cheers for the underdog!</p>

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<p>I don’t get this. I feel bad for your son- I recall being taunted as a kid at school as well. However, I don’t think his response should be acceptable either. While I understand his response at an emotional level, and can appreciate a teen responding that way, I also think it shouldn’t be condoned and should be punished. That is why there are rules in place and adults in authority. Or else it just becomes a free for all. </p>

<p>Physical abuse should have a repercussion at school, regardless of the provocation (with the exception of one physically defending themselves in an altercation). Report them yes, retaliate no. They should both be punished. Just like if my neighbor harasses me and threatens to kill me I have every right and should be calling the police, but I do not have a right to physically hit or hurt him (or else I get arrested). Or just like if an employee is harassed at work, they should report it through appropriate channels, not go vigilante. </p>

<p>What this has to do with the gay student I don’t know. Students who harass the gay student should have punishment and likewise if the gay student were to physically retaliate, that should also have a punishment.</p>

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<p>You are correct about DS’s punishment. I didn’t make that clear. DS had a variety of alternative non-physical solutions to defuse the bullying. After the emotions of the situation settled, everyone saw that clearly. We accept the punishment as just.<br>
In the “REAL WORLD” teens do not want to be known as a tattletale for many reasons.
Emotions and pride cloud our judgement. We are no less proud of our DS for defending himself. Had DS not gone to the clinic to address the bloody nose, the issue between the boys was resolved. This is very cliche but “boys will be boys”. </p>

<p>The subject of the gay student’s “rights” relates to “no bullying” as it should be. </p>

<p>If these rumors are true, do you feel the male student should be permitted to use the female restrooms? How are the rights of female students being protected. Why should the female students be subjected to having a male is their restrooms? Our public schools have gender specific restrooms. Until the restrooms are identified as “co-ed” or “family”, the gay student should NOT be allowed in the female restroom. </p>

<p>It is not uncommon to hear men being charged with sexual harrassment by women who feel threatened after rejecting repeated advancements are egnored. Put the shoe on the other foot. Is it equally appropriate for a male student to claim sexual harrassment if he feels threatened or humiliated by the unwelcomed advances of the openly gay classmate?</p>

<p>I may be opening a can of worms but a politically correct/gender neutral agenda does not sit well with me as it relates to my children’s public schools.</p>

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<p>I think you should find out if the “rumor” is true before spinning your wheels on it.</p>

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<p>I am appalled that your son would be expected to tolerate “tic of the day” teasing. His so-called friends need to be taught pronto that that is not acceptable. It sounds to me as if some kind of group session would be in order.</p>

<p>Regarding the gay student, </p>

<p>A) IMHO, boys should not be in the girl’s restroom in school. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. If this student is in fact transgender/transexual, then perhaps the school should consider offering to have her use a single-person rest room of the type that is often reserved for staff or visitors.
B) People caught bullying anyone for any reason should get a 3-day suspension if that is the school rule.
C) The gay student has the same right to express interest in fellow students that everyone else has. He should also be held to the same expectations regarding respectful behavior: when to take no for an answer, for example. The mere fact that he is gay does not make an advance by him inappropriate, IMHO.</p>

<p>It’s hard to tell whether this is a case of adolescents spreading homophobic rumors–probably stoked in some cases by familial attitudes suggesting that simply being who he is without fear of condemnation and bullying constitutes “special rights”–or whether the gay kid is in fact deliberately trying to push people’s buttons. Since simply existing all too often results in gay kids being beaten up or humiliated, it seems unlikely to me, but anything is possible.</p>

<p>It would appear to me that this school has totally failed to protect your son. But that does not mean that someone else should be allowed to be bullied also. Sounds like they have a lot of work to do. Perhaps the “Christian Athletes” should spend some time thinking about exhibiting christlike behavior such as kindness and compassion. :)</p>

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<p>Yes, please confirm these rumors before getting aggravated about them. Then, if you’ve got the time and inclination to fight a “politically correct/gender neutral agenda” - well, it’s a free country, I guess. I don’t see much of an agenda here. I will be very surprised if “this male student is allowed to use the girls restroom to put his make-up on.” Really, doesn’t that sound like the high school rumor factory operating on all three shifts to you? </p>

<p>I can’t see any connection between your son’s situation and a gay student’s rights being protected. No one should be bullied. Your son solved his problem in a way all of you are satisfied with. The gay student may not want to solve his in the same way.</p>

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<p>From the start I made it clear that this conversation was dealing with “rumors”. I will look into the matter this week. </p>

<p>I posted this subject to see if parents know first hand if their school district has adapted special considerations/policies for openly gay students.</p>

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<p>It seems pointless to debate rumours from teenagers. Given you care much about this issue, and rightly so, why not use it as an opportunity to find out the policy of protecting your son and all the kids in your school from mistreatment in its various forms? </p>

<p>I’d bet a lot of money on this being nothing but rumors. Being gay and being transgendered are two entirely different issues. Of course I might not expect teen boys to know this, which is why I would entirely suspect this is a teenage rumor. </p>

<p>As for hitting on boys, same thing. Probably a rumor and nothing more. But if he does so, they ask him to stop. End of story. What’s the issue then? If he continues to hit on the same boy, it’s called sexual harassment and should not be tolerated. And likewise should involve adults, not a bunch of kids taking it into their own hands (or else one can just see where this is going, right? 'we had every right to beat on him ‘cause he was hitting on us!’…sorta like how your son had every right to hurt his offender…?). That should apply whether the actor is a boy, girl, straight or gay. </p>

<p>If parents stopped encouraging or applauding their children for solving problems with violence, refrained from using derogatory terms such as ‘rat’ and ‘tattletale’ to describe kids with guts and maturity to stop bullying the right way, and didn’t participate in hearsay, rumours and veiled judgments about other children, all of our kids would be a heck of a lot more safe, secure and respected. IMHO.</p>

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<p>A boy would not be allowed in the girls restroom, just as a girl would not be allowed in the boys restroom. Schools can have designated “gender neutral” bathrooms - you see these in public places all the time with a boy/girl figure on the front. It is usually a single restroom, not a restroom with stalls.</p>

<h1>2 seems valid, if the school has a no bullying policy and someone bullies a student (gay or straight) then they are subject to the suspension.</h1>

<p>I am confused about the OP’s #3 “rumor” - that a gay student had flirted with someone in front of other students. Maybe I don’t understand the purpose of the orignal post - OP, when you say “where do administrators draw the line?” what do you mean?</p>

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<p>My son is gay. I had to walk away from this post before answering. I find your speculation to be off-putting. You are an adult. Find out the facts first, then proceed. </p>

<p>I have so much I want to say but I cannot even speak to you except to say that I do NOT join in your “hooray” for the underdog who stoops to the level of bullies. You can support boys being forced to use violence, I will not join you. At all.</p>

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<p>Thank you to everyone who gets it. It means more than I can say.</p>

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<p>Pug, I, too, had to wait a while before responding. </p>

<p>The business about a gay male high school student being allowed to put on makeup in the girls’ bathroom sounds to me like homophobic rumor based on stereoptypes of gay male behavior that should have died out 40 years ago. Leaving aside the fact that most gay male high school students are no more likely than straight ones to wear makeup or even to want to wear makeup, at school or elsewhere (assuming that they’re not transgender), I’ve never heard of a non-trans boy in high school being permitted to use the girls’ bathroom for any reason. It is, unfortunately, almost impossible in most circumstances even for trans kids to be permitted to use the bathroom of their desired gender in school (except perhaps in the very rare circumstance when they’ve already transitioned in the sense of presenting as their target gender 24/7). Never mind how much fulminating, baseless hysteria goes on about the “bathroom issue” for adult trans people, both in the workplace and in places of public accommodation. </p>

<p>Also, a gay kid has the same right to flirt with someone as a straight kid does, and the same obligation to stop when asked to stop. It isn’t “harassment” for a gay kid to flirt with a straight kid – which, for all I know, means nothing more than being friendly, interpreted as “hitting upon” only because the kid is gay – unless he doesn’t stop when asked to. After all, straight boys and girls don’t necessarily investigate the sexual orientation of every person of the other sex they talk to before flirting with them, and gay kids are no more obligated to do so. Keep in mind, please, that sometimes a gay kid will flirt with a straight kid who’s been tormenting him, as a way of getting back at his tormentor and embarrassing him in front of his friends. That’s what apparently happened with poor Lawrence King, the 15-year old gay kid in California last year. The result was that he was murdered, shot in the back of the head while sitting in a classroom. See this story, among hundreds of others: [Lawrence</a> King, 15 and gay, killed by fellow student | Oasis Journals](<a href=“http://www.oasisjournals.com/2008/02/lawrence-king-15-and-gay-killed-by-fellow-student]Lawrence”>http://www.oasisjournals.com/2008/02/lawrence-king-15-and-gay-killed-by-fellow-student)</p>

<p>Sadly, there have been those who’ve claimed that it was Lawrence’s own fault, that he brought it upon himself by being too “out” and by flirting with a straight kid. Because it’s always the gay or trans kid’s fault, of course. Trying to claim “special rights” and all that. Like the right to live, and be oneself, without being bullied and tortured as a consequence.</p>

<p>Like pugmadkate’s, my son (now in college) is gay, and was out as such at school from about 8th grade on, although fortunately he was never bullied because of it even though for years he was the only “out” gay kid at his school. A “zero tolerance” policy for bullying at his school – instituted after the famous, horrible incident there in 1989 when a mentally handicapped girl was sexually assaulted, with a miniature baseball bat and other implements, by a group of guys on the baseball team – made a huge difference, I think.</p>

<p>And a lot of people here know about my own history. </p>

<p>So I have some personal knowledge of all this, although I’m not going to go into my own high school experiences right now.</p>

<p>PS: Perhaps needless to say, I do not like the “boys will be boys” concept, when used as an excuse for winking at violence or for suggesting that violence is the appropriate response to bullying. Even though I admit that when I was in my teens, I got in fights more than once with kids who were bullying me, even though they were usually twice my size.</p>

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<p>starbright and DonnaL - absolutely stellar posts! Thank you. Especially this:

On point #1, which really is ridiculous - gay men are not “really” women. They do not all wear makeup (hey, even some straight women don’t wear makeup - did you know?). They do not harbor secret desires to invade the girls’ room. :rolleyes: There is nothing “special” about being protected from bullying. All of us should want that, for all children.</p>

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<p>If you accepted the punishment as “just” why did you treat the suspension as “vacation days”?</p>

<p>As for the rest?

  1. This is almost certainly a rumor.
  2. All bullying should be punished.
  3. Gay students have a right to flirt, straight students have the right to say they aren’t interested. (and vice versa of course)</p>
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<p>I don’t think he has. He might have the right to express interest in fellow openly gay studentes, nothing far from that. What the hell is he thinking about hiting hot heterossexual males?</p>

<p>If it happened to me when I was in HS (I’m now just starting Grad School straight from B.S.), I’d overreact to the extent I legaly could, including going to the Dean and pressing charges of sexual harassment, if applicable. Hell no, uncloseted gays have their rights as individuals, they can meet and greet fellow gays, but no one of them every dare to approach me with sexual/flirting/dating intentions. He is surely being received with harsh words, and, if happened now is HS, with a formal complaint with the Graduate Student Affair’s Office.</p>

<p>I respect gays rights, and respect them as individuals and citizens with voting rights as far as they don’t even think about approaching me with second intentions. And I like to make my policy stubly clear when I’m an environment where there are public gays. They respect me and don’t include me in their hit list, we’ll be good coleagues. They do it otherwise, angry and calculated overreaction will follow.</p>

<p>I do not tolerate excessive gay-rightism fuss and all. Right to harass other hetero males? It would be like giving carte blanche for people who like to do threesomes to hit couples in the mall without being confronted back.</p>

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<p>Europegrad, wow…just wow. I hope that you are able to get over your extreme homophobia some day.</p>

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<p>I can’t wait for the day that some female who isn’t interested in you files sexual harrassment charges because you DARED to indicate your interest. You have a very strange idea of what constitutes harrassment. </p>

<p>People who are secure in their sexuality and identity do not see a need to repulse those who approach them with “harsh words” or “calculated overreaction.” What are you so afraid of?</p>

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<p>Eurograd-- the post did not say “harrass”, it said “hit on”. If you support straight males speaking with straight females in the high school setting-- greeting, flirting, asking for a date, then I can’t imagine how a gay male engaging in exactly the same behaviour is “excessive gay-rightism”. Your post is extraordinarily homo-phobic-- you seem to think that being spoken to by a gay person somehow calls into question your own sexuality.</p>

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<p>It does not, but I draw a line. People living in homossexualism has no bussines flirting heteros of same gender. Gays can date/flirt other gays. Lesbians can do it likewise. Both have no right to approach straight males and females for flirting.</p>

<p>I talk to gay ppl on a daily basis, as probably I don’t even know who’s gay or not in majority of social sitatuions (not all open gays are flamboyant or dress with a revealing fashion choice). However, gays don’t have to bother us, the regular guys, with their intentions or desires. They ought to use their own gaydar to find other gays they can approach.</p>

<p>I make a comparison to a typical family (man and woman age-like looked, children resembling parents): do you think a single woman or man who happend to be on her/his errand in the local mall have any business approaching the couple to propose a threesome or approaching the husband/wife to flirt with? How would a wife react if such a woman approach his husband, in front of their children, to flirt and “hit on”? That’d be disgunsting and appaling.</p>

<p>So is gays hitting hetero males and lesbians hitting hetero females. They have to do their sexual/romantic actions without involving straight people unless they want to take part.</p>

<p>That’s why I’d react harshly to any gay who knows me (from school, neighborhood, gym club, Univ. department) and happens to come asking me for a date (!). I’d not punch such a subject, but I’d make sure he got social consequences for his harassment.</p>

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<p>I still don’t see how merely asking for a date (or greeting, paying attention to) is harrassment. The very idea of it must seem like a threat to your own sense of manhood. It makes me sad for you.</p>

<p>I note that there has been no response to europegrad from pugmadkate. I fear her head must have exploded at about 9:37 am.</p>