Northwestern vs. Tufts vs. Bowdoin

College Search & Selection
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<p>I'll echo what Sam Lee said about engineering and pre-med - mainly, don't do it! Generally, music, classics, and anthropology majors have the highest admissions rates into med school. Med school is very GPA driven, and my understanding is that they view GPA as a number. They don't look at it like they might look at a GPA coming out of Phillips Exeter when applying to colleges; they don't really look at it much in terms of major; it's just a number. </p>

<p>If you want pre-med (very badly, and know that it is for you), I would suggest a liberal arts college with a lot of academic support. Consider going to one which might give you some merit aid or academic honours programmes. It could help med school admissions to be at or near the top of your class, have had small classes, and lots of faculty support. </p>

<p>As for the organic/bio thing - right on. As an engineer, you will invariably get worse grades in orgo than your liberal arts classmates. As a chem-e, I took orgo alongside thermodynamics, electrical engineering, differential equations, poetry, and materials science. When my roommate took organic, she was also taking psych, first year foreign language, and I think something like fine arts. She was doing the pre-med route - and all of the pre-meds clear out their schedules for orgo. The class is often based on a harsh curve, so you are being graded solely in relation to your classmates - who are taking easy courses. </p>

<p>Just my $0.02.</p>

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<p>I agree! I cannot tell you how many of my bio/ engineering friends ended up at lesser places than my liberal arts friends, largely due to lower GPAs! You can do liberal arts at Northwestern though, and its great. Once again my vote for ED</p>

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<p>I'd like to mention more about Northwestern's "engineering first" because I think you may want to become aware of it esp if u want to do premed at the same time. Northwestern's "Engineering First" curriculum is an ambitious curriculum that exposes freshman to real engineering early. Introduced in 1996 as a pilot-test program, it's one of a kind in the nation. Before it was introduced, engineering students usually just took the calculus, chem and physics sequence (you can probably delay some physics to the 2nd year but that's unlikely an option for a premed because you still have bio/orgo AND other engineering core/basics) just like engineers in most other schools. Now on top of that, they need to take engineering analysis I, II, III (fourth one is taken in the fall of sophomore year) and engineering communication/design I, and II (winter/spring quarter) during the first year; that's 4 additional "must-have" courses (not 5 because the "engineering first" covers what used to be a course in computer programming) for a freshman, leaving you no room for easier electives. In engineering analysis I, II, & III, you learn engineering fundamentals (physics/mechanics/linear algebra..etc) and problem solving/programming using MatLab. Engineering design and communication is about working on real world projects (most likely you'd work with couple others in group). They actually have projects submitted by industry clients outside, so you get to work on real world projects while the clients get the service for free (of course the product may not be the complete one..LOL! After all, they are just freshman; but as NU would tell them in its homepage, it would be very close if not complete! Haha). It's a great addition for an engineering major and I wish they had it while I was there but it definitely an extra burden you may want to think twice as a premed.</p>

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<p>Engineers often have the hardest time in applying to med school just by the sheer balance and nature of the courseloads they have to take. The music and theater majors have it best :)</p>

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<p>I believe you! In fact, school of music has highest GPA of 3.7 at Northwestern. I was shocked to learn that. They study less and look like having loads of fun during practice but still have much higher GPA than you. It's pretty unfair. LOL!</p>

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<p>well going into engineering pre-med, you need to know it makes it 10x more difficult than other pre-med majors. more engineers switch majors than any other major, and usually it's too a science, but less stressful, like bio or chem or biochem. Also, music students work their butt off, music is something you have to be serious about, but it can be fun. It's not like taking a test is ever exciting, playing in a concert can be very exciting. But, i wouldn't assume that music students "have it easy"</p>

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<p>Bowdoin is an amazing college!</p>

<p>I attended both the Washington and Oregon prospective student receptions this past week. I learned alot about Bowdoin. And, I'm excited to apply. I did not have a good handle on the college before the presentation, but was impressed by their facilities and special programs (i.e. Kent Island and the Coastal Studies Center).</p>

<p>The Assistant Director of Admission, Wendy Thompson, was approachable as well as personable--smiling and answering questions with aplomb. I also got the chance to meet area alumni, who spoke of the many opportunities at Bowdoin, and were straight forward with their impressions. Bowdoin, I learned, has a 3-3 program with Columbia for Law school. Although I probably won't take advantage of it, the program is awesome for aspiring judges and lawyers.</p>

<p>In all, I got the impression that Bowdoin values applicants who are active learners, who use their education for social good. Wendy encouraged applying ED, I or II, if the college is a first choice...even if you have financial need, as Bowdoin does not give RD applicants a better package than ED. The average loan debt is about 12,000 to 13,000, while 40% get aid. Most awards, it should be noted, are heavily biased towards grants, rather than loans or work-study.</p>

<p>Bowdoin, compared to its near rivals, seems more diverse at least with respect to students of color. Currently, the admissions office is trying to attract more students who are socioeconomically representative of the general population. A definate plus in my book. Wendy did mention that some students do, indeed, shop at L. L. Bean for winter gear, however. And, it does get a bit cold.</p>

<p>There is a certain fresh-scrub, proactive, and friendly vibe about Bowdoin which I did not get from Wesleyan, Vassar and a few other liberal-minded schools. It was evident during both the Seattle and Portland receptions that Bowdoin students, alumni and administrators are quick to share their reactions (both good and bad) about their time at Bowdoin. Most bad reactions were to the cold and to the fraternity system that was in place before 2000 (there is no greek system at Bowdoin anymore). The good reactions to the college involved its small class size, reputation, friendships that developed, the journey of self-discovery prompted by peers and professors, as well as the location of the college in Brunswick.</p>

<p>In any event, the reception was a success--more personal and conversational than many of the other presentations I've attended for other colleges.</p>

<p>Hope this helps a little.</p>

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<p>Well thanks for the response about Bowdoin. For all of you who have not heard of L.L. Bean, well, it's awesome. I get all of my clothes there. And speaking of friendly students, the one student from last years class that went to Bowdoin was probably the nicest kid in the school.</p>

<p>Anyways, I'm seriously thinking about applying to Northwestern ED. I'm already working on their essays (Haha, I know, I should be done by now. I've written the common app personal statement, but the northwestern essay is unique). The one thing that is appealing to me most right now, is the integrated science program. It looks perfect. As I read the web site, it was as if they created this major for me. So rather than engineering, I would prefer to do ISP. The only thing is, it must be very competitive to get in. I can't find any information anywhere on the admissions standards. If anyone knows anything about ISP, I would love to talk to you.</p>

<p>As for engineering and pre-med, it seems as if the general consensus is: don't do it. Thanks for warning me now, before I found out the hard way.</p>

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<p>You are rolling the dice a bit by going ED at the most selective of the three schools you highlight. That, plus the number of kids that are admitted ED at Bowdoin (and Tufts for that matter), does mean that you should have some very good less-selective schools on your list for RD apps, in case Norhtwestern does not admit you ED. Fortunately, there are plenty of them.</p>

<p>If you do apply ED to Northwestern and think the ISP program could have been created just for you, make sure you communicate that fact somewhere on your application, along with your reasons for thinking that way.</p>

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<p>Skyhigh5,</p>

<p>There are students' homepages on ISP website and you should email some of those people. I am sure they'd love to help you. People tend to like talking about things they are passionate about. This group of students are particularly passionate about science and their classes and I think they'd love sharing (maybe bit*hing) lots of info to you.</p>

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<p>Skyhigh5,</p>

<p>In case you haven't done so, look into the requirement carefully. It looks like you will have to apply to NU/ISP separately, meaning admission to NU doesn't guarantee admission to ISP. </p>

<p>Also, it looks like you need to have 3 SAT II (Math 2c, Phys or Chem, second science).</p>

<p>"Your high school preparation should include four years of mathematics, including one year of calculus, and four years of science, including chemistry and physics. Students with outstanding high school records who fall just short of these standards may still be considered for ISP."</p>

<hr>

<p>What if I am interested in medical school? </p>

<p>Northwestern attracts many students who are interested in premedical preparation. We'd like to offer some comments to help you decide whether you should apply to ISP or choose a traditional pre-med path at NU.</p>

<p>About 20% of ISP graduates enter medical school. In general, pre-med students who pursue ISP instead of the traditional premed program have substantial interests in academic medicine or research. Students interested primarily in clinical practice are encouraged to pursue a traditional pre-med program.</p>

<p>The ISP curriculum is very different from, and goes well beyond, the curriculum required for admission to medical schools. The standard premed curriculum includes one year of calculus, two years of chemistry (general and organic), one year of physics, and one year of biology. ISP begins its math sequence where the pre-med requirement leaves off. ISP chemistry places more emphasis on physical than on organic chemistry; and the program requires two years of physics, instead of one. ISP biology tends to be more quantitative and focused than the standard biology curriculum and it does not cover several topics tested on the Medical College Admission test (MCAT). In addition, ISP students take courses in geology, astronomy, and computing.</p>

<p>It is possible to complete the ISP requirements and graduate in three years. Pre-medical students attempting to do this will have to consider some timing issues. Most students take the MCAT during the spring of their junior year. Students graduating in three years typically have to take the MCAT in the spring of their sophomore year. At this time, ISP students have taken only one quarter of Biology. This means that the student needs to do independent MCAT preparation or else defer second year physics to third year in order to fit more biology in the schedule. Students can also defer the MCAT until the summer after the second year, but this may place them at a competitive disadvantage when applying to medical schools. Timing is not an issue for students taking four years to complete their degree.</p>

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<p>I know I'm rolling the dice by going ED to the most selective one, but it's better than not going ED at all (which is what I was previously planning on doing). I don't know if I could get into the ISP program (or even northwestern at that), but it just seems like the perfect fit. There's only one problem. I've taken three sat II's in math IIc, chemistry, and writing (I did well on math and chemistry, but not in writing). One place I read said that you can substitute writing for the second science if writing is required at a different school, or something along those lines. I guess I should email northwestern about this. Maybe I could take physics on the november 6th test date (I'm in my second year of physics right now). And Sam Lee, you mentioned emailing current students. I think I just might do that.</p>

<p>Sam Lee, are you a current Northwestern student? Or are you a prospective high schooler, like me? Or are you simply an unusually kind onlooker who enjoys helping others out?</p>

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<h2>One place I read said that you can substitute writing for the second science if writing is required at a different school, or something along those lines. I guess I should email northwestern about this.</h2>

<p>I think you read it from <a href="http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/academics/weinberg.htm#isp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/academics/weinberg.htm#isp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Base on my intuition, I think if SAT II writing is required, it would have to be by Medill (school of journalism). But that scenario can't happen because I think you are required to apply to Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences in order to apply to ISP. For Weinberg, 3 SAT II are recommended but not required. So it looks like you do need to take the physics. </p>

<p>Note from that page, looks like you can take dec test even for ED. The don't have SAT II in Dec? </p>

<p>For RD, you have until Jan to take it. Now that's a tough choice because while ED may increase your chance to NU, you have very little time to prepare for the SAT II physics. It's doable however because I did mine 10 years when taking SAT II wasn't the norm nor expected.</p>

<p>I am a NU alumnus and hanging in the US as a "legal alien".</p>

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<p>skyhigh - being in the middle of your second year of physics should put you in a pretty good position to take the SAT II. If you do, you will want to grab a practice book though, to help you focus on the test and to give you more confidence.</p>

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<p>I recently found out from the Tufts health professions department that within the past 3 years (no GPA cutoff), 86-89% of all who applied to medical school got in - there was no screening by the university.</p>