Not THAT dorm!

<p>Any comments/suggestions are welcome... D just got her housing assignment for her 1st year at Northwestern; she was a little disappointed because it's on the wrong end of campus for a Music major and she'll be walking/shuttling more than she'd like. Anyway, I started looking for info to cheer her up and I'm finding all negatives instead - the only positive is that it's very social - and that could actually be a negative. There's heavy Greek infulence, HEAVY partying, can't sleep or study because it's so loud, DIRTY, vomit in the halls... It sounds like the negative comments are coming from the serious students which scares me. Now, I do realize that there's drinking, partying, late nights, etc wherever they go, but this sounds EXTREME. Comments on other dorms are not so bad. I found most of it through this ink: </p>

<p><a href="http://asg.northwestern.edu/services/dtecs/browse.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://asg.northwestern.edu/services/dtecs/browse.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(McCulloch Hall which is connected to Bobb)</p>

<p>The information is old (2002-2003) so that's a plus - maybe things have improved? I've already decided not to share any of it with DD and I'm not usually one to waste time worrying, but this is bothering me...</p>

<p>After reading the link, I can see why you are worried. Have you considered posting this concern on the Northwestern site to see if the information is still accurate? Can your daughter call the housing office and request a quieter dorm?</p>

<p>Thanks, proudmama. The link actually came from the Northwestern thread of cc, but I think I'll ask the "sophomore taking questions" if it's really all that bad. North campus still seems to be the frat/party area based on the current NU discussions, but maybe there's been an improvement in the dorm situationJ?</p>

<p>Mary:</p>

<p>I sympathize with your D's housing situation and hope it all works out.</p>

<p>In the hope that your situation may be of some small service to next year's applicants:</p>

<p>This is exactly the kind of "big picture" characteristic that students should be considering BEFORE they apply to colleges. In my opinion, freshman housing AND the "party scene" should both be explicitly considered in putting together a college list. When a student chooses to go to a college or university with a disruptive drinking culture, it's difficult to complain about it.</p>

<p>Party all the time, no one does homework, too much noise to study, drunks destroying furniture...</p>

<p>And yet somehow great kids with 4.0+'s, 1400+ SAT's, AP's and exhausting lists of EC's get rejected on a regular basis from schools just like this. </p>

<p>Makes me wonder about the admissions process in general. These don't sound like the same kids who did 1,000 hours of community service rescuing puppies from trees and heading half a dozen student organizations.</p>

<p>I think a lot of kids after spending 13 years working to get to college are going to get there and release some pressure.
Freshmen especially may overreact to the fact that there aren't any "adults" supervising them and that actually they * are * adults now.
I don't think strong academics and an interest in socializing with substances are mutually exclusive ;)
However the difficulty of finding a great living situation at a large university is one thing that we considered when looking at schools
Our impression was at many universities, you were lucky to get a two person dorm that was made for two people, let alone have a lot o fchoice about your housing. My niece who was at a large LAC had difficulties with room mates until spring of junior year when she finally got into a single.
My D at a small LAC, had a single from freshman year in a pretty nice dorm.
I would worry about it when you get there, some dorms also change focus from year to year, so what is the party dorm one year might be the lights out dorm the next</p>

<p>I laugh every time I see that "puppies from trees" comment - and I also wonder how that can jibe with the situations described. We'd hoped/assumed that D would be on the south end of campus near the Music Dept and she'd actually done some research on the dorms so she'd have an idea of what to request (McCulloch wasn't her 1st choice, but was on her list.) - but she didn't run across this information.</p>

<p>I thought I'd posted something in the NU section but didn't see it a few minutes ago so maybe I forgot to hit Submit. I hope to set my mind at ease by contacting NU or a couple NU students. </p>

<p>interesteddad: Is NU really THAT big of a party school? I hadn't had that impression. And I'm hoping that it's not as bad as it sounds...</p>

<p>In the for what it is worth:: I have two friends who left NU for the very things you are worried about. I have a friend from a summer camp who is a music major, turned down Juilliard to go to NU, plays in a select group and yet was hospitalized for alcohol poisoning.....not from a one time party experience. The good news is he and his buds are renting an apartment next year. I have heard many comments from current students/families regarding the atmosphere you have mentioned. You might consider contacting the Safety/Police and finding out about reporting or current arrest trends. The stats for safety are public and you can look them up. My main concern other than alcohol consumption are the crimes that come along with it....</p>

<p>interesteddad,
my daughter had a very bad roommate situation last year in the small LAC we both know and love... Sometimes, it's just a bad luck, even if you choose your school carefully.</p>

<p>mary:</p>

<p>I don't know anything about NU, specifically. My comment was more general.</p>

<p>nngmm:</p>

<p>Yes. A bad roommate situation can happen for sure. I know D's group last year reshuffled the deck for 2nd semester.</p>

<p>It's still a matter of odds and worth investigating in the college selection process. I don't think people really understand that even schools with low-key party scenes have more than enough wild and crazy stuff going on.</p>

<p>I know that wild and crazy goes on many places.....I think the difference= services the school provides. Most of my friends who departed schools was due to lack of services related to wild and crazy. If every weekend...and remember that at many schools that means THU/FRI/SAT/SUN nites....you have to step over or thru pools of vomitus or cannot use the public bathrooms for the same reasons....it is lack of service. If there is a regular service staff hired to handle the clean up of the irresponsible party folks it is annoying but far less inconveniencing. How does call in service respond? Do they track the calls....in other words if they are constantly called for emergency service in a specific hallway do they intervene??? These are some things to check on. I know that my friends didn't so much object partying.....if it didn't keep them awake it was the wakes of vomitus that were too much to bear.</p>

<p>The students we know who attend NW report a very prominent party culture. I am certain that there are plenty of kids who are serious students and hopefully OP's D will meet them.</p>

<p>My D eliminated a lot of schools and one entire state (a little extreme, but her choice) because of that very issue. Matching the school culture with the prospective student's is far more important than many kids or parents realize.</p>

<p>There's both bad news and good news in college drinking scenes these days, which emphasize why it is important to choose your school well, if that is a particular concern (for many students, it isn't, even if it is for their parents.)</p>

<p>I'm going to use Swarthmore as an example, because it has a relatively mild drinking scene, much lower than the national average. Roughly 30% of students are reported to be binge drinkers, as opposed to the 44% national average. What this means is that 30% of students report having 5 or more 1 oz. drinks at one sitting at least once in the past two weeks. </p>

<p>This information (at any school) has to be caveated. Recent studies indicate that students underestimate their number of drinks, usually by 1. So the number of binge drinkers is underestimated that way. More important, when they asked students to pour out a standard drink, researchers have found that the average drink poured by college students is 1.75 ounces (range 1.5 to 2). In other words, a student who says he drank 4 drinks in one sitting in the past weeks is not classified as a binge drinker, even though, on average, he has likely had 5 drinks, each with 1.75 ounces, or 8.75 alcoholic drinks. And (another underestimate of campus drinking), it is actually quite rare for a binge drinker to actually do so only once in two weeks - it is usually more than that - and this may vary widely school to school. So the actual binge drinking rate (at any school) is likely 20% or so higher than reported.</p>

<p>It is also, generally speaking, higher for white students, higher for males, and higher for first-year students. This gives you the general lay of the land.</p>

<p>But at residential colleges generally speaking 20-30% of students are total abstainers. So the question really is whether of the rest, there is a moderate drinking culture or a binge drinking one. Here is where the difference in schools comes into play. At Swarthmore, the binge drinking rate of 30% - plus the added factors above, means that the ratio of bingers to moderates is roughly 1 to 1, and with the number of abstainers added in, on the whole the bingeing culture will be heavily moderated. If you did the numbers, you'd find the opposite at, say, Williams, with an uncorrected 52% binge drinking rate. That isn't to say one can't find abstainers, or moderate drinkers (there are actually statistically few of the latter), only that you have to look harder.</p>

<p>NW has most of the characteristics of a high-bingeing school: residential; Greek presence; higher incomes; heavily white; co-ed; big-time athletics (though let's also grant, less than a lot of places); non-religious. The one characteristic that doesn't fit is that it is not rural. What was described above does not sound extreme, from what I know from my professional work.</p>

<p>Best thing to do, of course, is to surround oneself with friends who are not part of that culture, if that is what you want. You do have to work at it: a school with an uncorrected binge drinking rate of 44% (the national average) actually probably has about twice as many binge drinkers as moderate drinkers. But in a big school like NW, they are out there, and in large numbers, and if you involve yourself in activities where drinking isn't prominent, you can find plenty of folks outside the big drinking scene.</p>

<p>I can see what's coming here mary, your daughter is going to be in an apartment soon. That's okay too! I had much anxiety of my child making the transition from dorm to apartment and actually, it went very well. She had the roommates she wanted, and many campuses now have their our college apartments.It worked out fine. Plus, at some colleges once the student establishes their local residency, they are eligible for in state tuition.</p>

<p>Hazmat:</p>

<p>I'm not buying your argument that it's OK for kids puke all over the place as long as the school custodians clean it up quickly.</p>

<p>I agree that this is a prevailing sentiment, but I would rather see a school set an expectation of something a little closer to adult behavior.</p>

<p>Gee if that is the impression I gave please let me take it back and say I am sorry. What I tried to say was it does happen but that complaining and calling it to the attention of the school.....perhaps that will help. I do know that at some schools the maintenance schedules are meager and the problems many. I hate messy, loud, obnoxious drunks. I don't want to be living with them and generally I don't have to. Gee I sure don't want folks to think that i endorse the type of behavior that causes kids to leave schools.</p>

<p>Hazmat:</p>

<p>Have you read Greg Halpern, Harvard Works Because We Do? It shows college life from the perspective of janitors. This includes cleaning up after kids who puke. Not a pretty picture.</p>

<p>I guess I have just opened the can of worms here. I know the book, I am not saying that the janitors are the ones....I am saying that if the problem is presented that hall monitors, Resident Advisors etc. these folks bear some responsibility for reporting and controlling behavior in the housing unit. I don't know why I ever mentioned this......boy was I not thinking.</p>

<p>Hazmat:</p>

<p>I agree that if the RAs and others did a better job of monitoring behavior, including insisting that the pukers clean after themselves, it might improve the living situation; it might even curb the wild partying and drinking!</p>

<p>Hey, lucky when it is only puking!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?view=article&section=news&id=6089%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?view=article&section=news&id=6089&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?view=article&section=opinion&id=5907%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?view=article&section=opinion&id=5907&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>