<p>and major alcohol issues in the past 5 years and maybe more. Big time party hearty....but the sink issue.....ewww, poor taste, very poor taste.</p>
<p>Don't go overboard - there are at least a couple of hundred places, including some of the top colleges and uni's, that are similar.</p>
<p>Well, there sure is a lot to think about... On the positive side, my S will be a sophomore and saw plenty of drinking even among his friends. He and his closest friends are total abstainers. They make an appearance at parties then go catch a movie or something. They join in the activities that interest them - sports, dances, etc, with the larger groups but avoid the drinking. They also watch out for the others - make sure they get home OK, etc. - when those situations arise. He had no problem finding close friends who think as he does. Hopefully, my D will be able to do the same. She's always had good judgement and good friends and has never been in any trouble. I've never seen any indication that she'd been drinking, so with a little luck and a couple students who think as she does, why shouldn't things work out? Upbringing and her past behavior will count for something.<br>
There does seem to be a huge difference between north (frats) and south campuses. I sure wish she'd gotten one of her first couple choices.</p>
<p>Releasing pressure "after spending 13 years working to get to college"? Wow. I don't think you meant this the way it sounds. Seriously, I don't. But it sounds very spoiled bratty. Poor babies, had to rescue all those puppies and take all those hard AP classes in order to get into Northwestern so they should be given sone slack while they vomit in the hallways and break the furniture. No, sorry, I don't buy it. And I have kids of my own, two of whom were partiers in high school and college. But they weren't animals.</p>
<p>Hazmat: </p>
<p>I knew that wasn't what your really meant! It just sounded funny.</p>
<p>I read about one school recently that had a Puke Tax. They fine students $25 per puke cleanup.</p>
<p>If I were a dean forced to implement a Puke Tax, I think I'd be talking to my admissions office trying to get different students.</p>
<p>As the axe-handle weilding former Gov. of Georgia, Lester Maddox, once said in speech on prison reform, "We ain't never gonna have better prisons until we get a better grade of prisoners."</p>
<p>Lot of truth in that.</p>
<p>Great comments as usual from you. I concur with looking for a better student...one thing is certain, few can party hardy 4 nites per week and be a major competitor for high GPA. The tax.....so, can they charge the tax to their bursar account, I mean who carries cash? I say register last if you have paid too much tax.</p>
<p>I would not institute a puke tax. I would insist the pukers clean up the puke by morning, so that the hallways are clear when those who did not party/puke try to make their way to the showers. Cleaning up after themselves would wake them up.</p>
<p>That's just a penalty on those with weak stomachs, and would encourage them to "train" more.</p>
<p>Sure beats merely levying a tax and leaving it to janitors (aren't they allowed to have weak stomachs, too?) to deal with the mess. Speaking as someone who gets nauseous easily. Come to think of it, I better get off this thread if I want to keep my dinner down. :(</p>
<p>I wasn't excusing the behavior of students who look at it as rewarding themselves for working hard for 13 years- but I read several high school LJ sites and several college LJ sites as well as misc articles by and about college students and thinking that one group of students are the ones who are getting good grades and doing good works, and the other group of students are the ones who are partying, is erroneous.</p>
<p>is it a reward to have to live with puke in your home. I mean, what would they say if a family member threw up in the hallway at home? What would their parents say if they relieved themselves in the living room, drunk or not? Our dorms ARE our homes. We have to live there, disgusting or not. And we have to share them with lots of people. Let's try some courtesy, people!</p>
<p>I didn't say there were two groups. That's my point exactly. It's not two groups. 1000 hours of rescuing puppies from trees in high school followed by breaking the furniture and vomiting in the hallways in college. It just makes me wonder, that's all. It seems contradictory to be out campaigning for human (or puppy) rights by day and trashing your dorm by night. I don't get that, I really don't. You either care about the environment and the people around you or you don't. How do you care about strangers (volunteering) but you don't care about the students living in the room next door?</p>
<p>Mary -- My S will be a senior at NW this year. Frosh year he lived in McCulloch and I was concerned because it has a party rep; he often left his room to study at Lisa's Cafe nearby. He and roomie originally were assigned down south but at last minute room assignment changed cuz RA was in first room (go figure!). It worked out fine. Second year he was in Elder which is furthest north dorm. I was disappointed he was not near south campus but it all worked out fine. Last year he rented an apt and will do same this year. He parties on wkends but sometimes works weekend nights in the film lab. Plus he hates the Greek system and all the vomit following big weekends. But he has found a balance and some really nice friends. Hope this helps hearing someone else's experience.</p>
<p>I wish your D had gotten her first choices. Don't they have Substance Free dorms at NU? Although Amherst has a rep for parties, they offer Sub Free Dorms, and kids who requested them are being placed in an additional overflow dorm for incoming freshman class. I didn't influence my D but she said it isn't that she is opposed to partying (though she doesn't go to any because of how drunks act) but she has no intention of taking care of a puking roommate. So, she requested Sub Free. She heard the stories of my Jr. year when I didn't get a single, and was thrown into the general pool for roommates and drew a quiet, little freshman from a very strict, religious home, and thought I was home free. But she had been told what to do for so long, she had a tough transition and had never been allowed to go on a date alone, so she started dating everyone and anyone, drinking to be popular, and then went on a trip through a couple states with friends and stayed in college dorms wherever they could get a floor to sleep on, came back with VD, and I had to take her to the free clinic, because she wasn't going to go to the school clinic, because she didn't want to have the school know, and had to kick her and her boyfriends out at 2 a.m., etc. Luckily, I had friends and was able to quietly move out. Needless to say, she didn't come back after first year - she flunked out. And our campus was religiously affiliated, and not known as a drinking school, but the group that was there those 4 years really created that culture. The years previous weren't like that, and there is much less today. So, it depends on the group. The reps can come and go. Hopefully, the group that will be in your D's dorm isn't the same as the previous years' groups. But if there is Sub Free, I would call the school and see if you could still request that.</p>
<p>I love the folks who suggest that the sloppy drunks clean up after themselves.....these are the folks who pass out, vomit, aspirate and sometimes die from their self abuse. Right.....what do you want sober kids to do.....hold them up and move their arms in a cleaning motion? Maybe you haven't seen a real college FROSH drunken stuper. The kind whose friends pile them onto the hall or bathroom floor...</p>
<p>Exactly what I was thinking, Hazmat. It's been quite a few years, but from all that I remember, it's virtually impossible for an unconscious person to clean---sometimes even to breathe!</p>
<p>Of course you can't clean up if you've passed out. But if the people who puke or s...t in sinks know they WILL have to clean after themselves, they may be less inclined to do so. There are people who think nothing of paying $25, or $50 or even more for some poor Columbian janitor to handle the mess they create. It does not have to be the very people who passed out. It can be the whole frat that organized the drinking till you pass out party that is held responsible. A few times spent cleaning puke and s..t may lead to behavior change in a way that several hundred dollars'fine would not.</p>
<p>OK guys after reading these posts I am having second thoughts about DS#2 taking his time in the fall to attend a weekend up at Williams. I thought it would be a good chance to get a feel of the school and sit in on some classes. They are footing the cost but that wil be 3 days he will be gone and during the school year missing class and sports stuff.</p>
<p>If he even had a hint that the school was as described in the above posts and on the link mini provided, he will not want to even visit.</p>
<p>Mini- is there a "party" atmosphere at Williams? He was interested in their academics, mathematics, economics, history, maybe physics. He is a pretty disciplined athlete, trains daily 6-8 miles, lifting and reads constantly. He spent this summer and last doing cancer research at Duke's and UNC Schools of Medicine. We thought Williams would offer the academics he was looking for with a smaller school feel. </p>
<p>And yes Marite, H has called 5 times this summer while he was gone. He had ruled them out initially, but I guess they are back on the list.</p>
<p>I truly thought he would be the one who was stress-free but I was so wrong.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Kat:</p>
<p>I know students who have gone to Williams and have not experienced the gross behavior that has been described elsewhere. My Ss do not drink, but I would not have hesitated to send them to Williams if they had wanted to apply there. S1 felt it was too isolated and perhaps cold; S2 needs more advanced math than a LAC, however, excellent, could supply. Williams has joined Questbridge and provides excellent scholarships. I would not rule it out. It has truly wonderful programs and resources. It's good in all the fields your S is interested in. And for someone interested in running, the setting is spectacular.
If your S is interested in H and wants to revisit, please let us know. My S would be happy to show him around, I'm sure.</p>
<p>katwittens, bad things happen at good schools and Williams is no exception. Yes, there is a fair amount of partying at Williams, but for sure it's not the nonstop drunken free for all that is sometimes depicted on this board. I would encourage your son to visit and draw his own conclusion. There are many reasons not to choose Williams, but negative exposure to excessive drinking is not one of them. </p>
<p>For serious academics in a friendly and supportive environment, Williams is outstanding. There are plenty of serious scholars who are also topform athletes and decent human beings. If I can provide any further current and firsthand (well, secondhand from my son, that is) impressions, please pm me.</p>