Acceptance into schools in the top 20 (USNWR) without a serious hook seems to be very difficult where just doing better academically than the 75 % of accepted students does not matter much. This is very different from even 10 years ago. My son last year with a 36 ACT, UW 4.0 from top private school (tied #1 in class), 15 APs , 800 math SAT II and 790 Physics SAT II, and multiple ECs including a state championship and top 50 national finishes was rejected from every private school except ND. I am not complaining, he loves ND, but this was a shock to me. Probably his biggest problems were that he honestly indicated interest in a major in which he as a class is highly overrepresented and that his application to ND prevented him from applying ED to any other school. I am hearing similar stories from MANY other parents whose children have applied to college within the last 3 years.
@aspen22 thank you for your kind words. It is always so helpful and encouraging to hear from other parents. Best of luck to your son this year as well!!!
@WLVGirl Your post is so similar to our situation that my own mother called me thinking I had written your post. My daughter, who has great stats, was rejectedâŠmy grandfathers both went to ND, my father went to ND, my brother went to ND, and my husband and I went to NDâŠwe are in Presidentâs Circle and have been very involved with ND. The rejection letter was also not very nice I felt. I understand that not everyone gets in etc, but given her SATâs and grades, as well as the awards she has won, we were shockedâŠnot even a waitlist? Just wanted you to know that there are many Domers out there sharing your pain. On to UVAâŠ
@DustyD This year having my first child go through has really opened my eyes. I figured the ivyâs, Stanford, NW, UChicago, Carn Mell, and maybe Duke would be a crapshoot as far as getting in, but I didnât think it went all the way down to ND. Now ND isnât much further down from those schools, but I thought ND was below the line for crazy tough schools to get in. I knew having a hook would be important, but it seems unless you are perfect you definitely need a hook. Plus the fact we donât have the funds to apply anywhere ED.
@Lulu15 We are here in the same boat. Legacy, both myself and my better half and D19 didnât get in. It would have been extremely difficult to pay for ND, but no one likes rejection especially from a school that you have history with.
My son was just rejected from ND after being deferred from REA. His stats are similar:
SAT 1530
GPA 4.43W / 4.0UW
APs - five classes junior year all 5s on the test. 5 more senior year with all As to include Physics BC and AP Calc
SAT II - Math 800 / Physics 760
Very good ECs, volunteer work and LORs
He visited the campus, attended local AO visits and followed up with every engagment via email with responses
Wrote a very strong LOCI after deferral
Had a letter from the ND menâs crew coach as a recruit.
Roman Catholic from Virginia
His major was computer science which is very competative at most schools.
Neadless to say, he was very disappointed since ND was his far and away first choice. The other tough pill to swallow is that he had a pre-screen admission for ED to row crew at Tufts but he decided to try for ND which precluded that option. Now we are waiting another week for Tufts decision.
At the end of the day, there is no real explaining it. Iâm telling him that he should be proud of his record and accomplishments and reminding him that he will end up at a good school. All that said, it still hurts.
Good luck to your son
So sorry!! We understand the heartbreak. My son was not accepted last year REAâŠthird generation legacyâŠat least 10 family members are ND Alum. Personally, we donât know any legacy kids that have been admitted the past 3-4 admission cyclesâŠof course thatâs just our family and friends but itâs definitely been a topic of conversation and a lot of upset Alums.
Did any legacy get in RD? As a rejected (and heartbroken) legacy myself, I canât help but notice a lack of admitted legacyâs on CC and within my friend group. If you got in RD & you are a legacy â can you post? Im feeling really really heartbroken over this decision, so maybe Iâm just looking for excuses for my rejection.
@VACrew I could understand the shock and disappointment especially after receiving a letter from the coach! Your sonâs stats are very similar to mine, but I would say my sonâs are overall slightly weaker (got some 4âs on a couple o AP tests, and only a 3 in Physics, otherwise all 5âs). SAT 1540; same GPA as yours. No interest from any coaches. He was wait listed after REA deferral. The only difference is he applied to Arts and Letters. I think Computer Science is very restrictive in terms of the number they could admit to that school.
.Hi there, Iâm usually a lurker on the boards as I am still feeling new to CC. DS was admitted to ND and is super excited. Good luck to everyone, admitted or not, as all of these young people move forward with the process of finding their fit and work on starting their next chapter.
Iâm sorry to hear that you werenât admitted. The topic of legacy students is not a trivial one, and during my time at Notre Dame I often caught flack for speaking out against the policy of reserving space for legacy applicants. In retrospect, my opinions have mellowed a bit as Iâve come to realize that legacy students often âgetâ NDâs culture much more than any other student group, and that generational Domers are a large part of NDâs donorship base. But the reality is that ND Admissions is slowly moving in the direction of accepting more and more underrepresented students: first-generation, low-income, non-white, LGBTQ, international, etc. This kind of diversity is obviously a good thing, but itâs understandable that many Domer-infested families feel hurt when their kids donât get in. The most I can say is to consider applying again as a Transfer Student, or consider ND for graduate school. Things will work out for you. I promise.
@bigmamao Congratulations to your son and welcome to the Notre Dame family! Please do not hesitate to ask any questions, and if you could post GPA/Test Scores etc. of your son? Thanks.
@VACrew Sorry to hear your son didnât get in, it he seems like he would be a great asset to any school that he goes too. This year appears to be very competitive. Reading this thread and the Boston College one it looks like several highly qualified candidates are being bypassed by these top schools. My son was accepted to the Honors Program at Villanova so he will probably go there. He is my oldest so this is my first time going through this process. I am doing the same as you telling him to be proud of his accomplishments
@wreather - Hi- Sorry to hear about your denial. We know the heartbreak all too well in my house! I can speak to my daughterâs classmates and a couple of other friends. She only has 115 students in her class and 6 legacies and 3 non-legacies applied, so there was some stiff competition. One legacy got in for crew (although deserved to get in anyway). One legacy and one non-legacy (who of course doesnât even want to go there) were admitted REA. Two legacies were deferred and 2 rejected (including my daughter) and one non-legacy rejected. As for RD, the 2 deferred legacies were denied and one non-legacy (who had lower numbers than almost everyone else and was just waitlisted at BC and Villanova) was admitted. My husbandâs ND roommateâs daughter was also rejected REA, and another acquaintance who is 3rd generation, parents are big donors (season tickets, the works) was denied REA also. That kid was recruited by MIT for lacrosse, so obviously had the numbers. I canât make any sense of it all, but youâre not alone! My daughter was a competitive applicant, a 4th generation legacy, and my grandparents have a scholarship set up there that was attached to her application and she still didnât get in. It still hurts, but Iâm sure my daughter will love wherever she goes, but if not she can look into transferring. Good luck to you. Iâm sure any school would be lucky to have you!
@Horario ~ you touched upon what I hear most from upset AlumsâŠthat legacy students âgetâ ND traditions and are pretty reliable donors.
For exampleâŠthere was an article in the Observer how Sorin was an awful dormâŠwow! legacy kids would probably feel that living next to the golden dome was a very lucky spot to beâŠtraditionally that was a sought after dormâŠthose without the history passed down through generations see it as just an old dorm.
Iâm curious as to when ND may start noticing decreased donations from multi generational legacy families that have now been halted in carrying on the ND tradition.
I hate to say it, but I know quite a families who are done giving to ND. Many of these Alums gave annually and were Sorin Society or higher for over 20 years.
ND is a special place and congrats to those admitted. Go Irish!
OK this is getting a bit out of hand. I get that Legacy folks are upset if they or their child didnât get in. I would be too if I was in your position. There is no vast swing in changes to how Legacy is being handled at ND. I would bet everything I have that the Legacy percentage for this yearâs class will continue to be in the same narrow band it has been for the last 10 years. That is even taking into account the more aggressive pursuit of URMâs to add to the ND family.
From being on CC for the last 3 or 4 years, It seems that the stats for Legacy may be getting closer and closer to the overall stats. That means that the Legacy folks that get rejected with stats that fit within the mid-50 percentile of what ND publishes, will be even more upset and feel that they have been wronged.
The bottom line is that even though Legacy applicants have roughly twice the chance of getting in over a non-legacy, it still means that 7 out of 10 Legacy folks are getting denied. Some will understand, others will not. Iâm sure it has aggravated some individuals to the point that they stop giving. So be it. Do we really want Notre Dame to worry about whether a family will continue to give as part of the admissions process?
ND values the Legacy applicants and they do understand that Legacyâs âgetâ what ND is all about, etc etc. They will still be prioritized, but it still means that a vast majority of Legacy applicants are left upset.
@GraceDad Yes, I personally share your point of view. The legacy admission discussion rages across many campuses and in no way is limited to Notre Dame:
https://tcf.org/content/book/affirmative-action-for-the-rich/?agreed=1
"Many college officials defend legacy preferences as a mere tiebreaker among otherwise equally qualified applicants. Brian Clark, who oversees communications at Brown, said in an email: âWhen it comes to choosing among equally strong candidates, one consideration can be the natural affinity for the University that often emerges among children of alumni from Brownâs undergraduate college. Such a relationship may be one consideration among a great many factors.â
This suggests that, going forward, legacy will increasingly only be considered if and when all other quantitative and qualitative admission decision criteria between applicants are equal, which definitely should things mix up at Notre Dame and other comparable universities.
YesâŠlegacy (99% of the time, absent a name on a building) is a tie breaker, a small feather on the scale. My son was a legacy applicant last year at Georgetown (myself, my wife, older son) and Stanford (myself and older son for grad school). Stanford sent a nice letter acknowledging the legacy application and pointing out that although historical admission rates were about twice normal rates, that only amounted to about a 12% chance - with the overwhelming majority of legacy applications being denied. When the RD deny came, again a nice letter wishing us all well. Georgetown sent nothing upon application. My son was deferred REA and rejected in RD. A very terse rejection letter was received with only a small recognition it is always tough to reject those who are part of the Georgetown family. My son was a totally deserving applicant to Georgetown, and was admitted to Notre Dame REA and other peer schools. I felt, for sure, he would be at least granted a âcourtesy waitlistâ at Georgetown. Georgetown, however, is less legacy driven than many top schools (about 10%).
By the time the rejection came from Georgetown, my son had already decided to go to Notre Dame - which we all felt was the best school for him (in truth, we were not all that familiar with ND as we started the college process but came away unbelievably impressed and thankful that our son could have the opportunity to attend). So while I was not upset about the way Georgetown handled the legacy application from my sonâs perspective, I do feel they missed an opportunity to cement a relationship with a family - completely apart from the admit/deny decision.
At Notre Dame, we felt that our son was âWelcomed Homeâ from the day he got his acceptance - in a very real way, and we felt part of the ND family.
There is a reason that Georgetownâs endowment is but $1.6 billion (which is ridiculously low for a school of its stature), as compared to Notre Dameâs $13.1 billion!
Georgetown will see no more funds from this family, and we have started to give to Notre Dame.
To refer to legacies as an infestation reveals animus towards the people who have traditionally supported Notre Dame. This is especially unfair in the current context where the examples posted here are of students who have achieved academic success that is on par or better than average accepted students. The success of Notre Dame and the experience of non-legacy admits has been greatly improved by the support of these highly devoted legacy families. The fact that schools now have very rich endowments as a result of these legacy donors and donât rely on new donations nearly as much, should not diminish the importance of their generosity. Time will tell how prestige is affected by subordinating merit to identity. Notre Dame came very close to bankruptcy during WWII, hopefully they will have the same support in the future if tough times recur.
accepted! iâm not sure if i will be attending ND in the fall, but iâm excited to have the opportunity.
as a high school senior, i know how bittersweet college decisions can be. i was waitlisted at uchicago and rejected at northwestern, and i constantly wonder why. i think, though, however silly it sounds, i find comfort in knowing that iâll end up at the right place.
for anyone who is curious, hereâs an overview of my stats:
1470 SAT (taken once sophomore year, prefer the ACT)
35 ACT (36 E, 36 R, 36 S, 32 M)
ECs mostly music-related: marching band, symphonic band, percussion ensemble, volunteer instructor at two middle schools. others include a political club at school, part-time job, and tutoring.
awards: national merit finalist, state governorâs scholar (accepted into program, did not attend), accepted into state governorâs school for the arts
essays: pretty strong. wrote my common app about my passion for music.
letters of rec: iffy. one of my music instructors wrote a really good one; my counselor letter was probably dry and impersonal.
i go to a public school of ~2000 kids and am ranked 1 in a class of 470. i didnât take the SAT II, and my APs are negligibleâmy school doesnât offer many, and i take dual credit classes as a full-time college student at my local community college anyways.
sorry for the long post! i hope this helped in some way! maybe not, lol.
@scrunchies86 If youâre into band, you would love ND! But you must know that. 