<p><a href="I%20got%20applause%20from%20audience%20and%20a%20hard%20duck%20from%20the%20Harvard%20admissions%20officer%20when%20I%20probed%20for%20admissions%20rates%20for%20non-athletes,%20non-legacy,%20non-URM%20students...something%20I%20wouldn't%20have%20thought%20to%20have%20asked%20before%20spending%20months%20on%20CC.">quote="TheDad"</a>
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<p>Could you elaborate on that story? Sounds interesting :)</p>
<p>Kassos, nothing really to elaborate: I knew the essence of what I wanted to know, the admissions officer understood the question and didn't want to deal. Now, I admit that it was kinda like a White House press conference where you don't think you're going to get a straight answer but you can always hope.</p>
<p>My sense is that, unhooked--not athlete, legacy, or URM--the straight probability of being admitted to HYPSM is about 5-6 percent. I just wish they'd be a little more up front about it.</p>
<p>As I think on it now, this board was very useful in helping me flip how I looked at things: if I looked at my own D's app, I could say, "Sure, she has a good shot." After cruising this board for a year, I learned to think more in terms of being aware of the nature of the competition. Even so, I was probably more optimistic on her behalf than was warranted.</p>
<p>I agree with those who have said above that a blanket policy of leaving everything up to the student does not provide a level playing field, as the guidance and assistance students receive from their high schools varies greatly depending on the type of school they attend. I helped my daughter by doing extensive research (including the valuable information from this board) to find colleges to consider which were strong in certain specific areas. The college she applied to ED and will be attending (Kenyon) is not one which we had heard of before starting this research process. Her guidance counselor had never heard of it (he has over 30 years experience and we are from eastern Pennsylvania, not the other side of the earth. For a laugh, apparently he still is under the impression that it is a women's college :) ), and is not very familiar with LACs in general, as most good students from our school attend Penn State or apply to highly ranked universities, rather than LACs. I am not sure that my daughter would have honed in on Kenyon and the other schools she found which met her needs without some help from an adult (in this case, a parent). Also, LACs are very big on visiting, as you know, and we made our visits to six schools last spring, as she was away or busy with marching band commitments for most of the summer and totally busy with marching band through the middle of December (unfortunately for the band, the football team was VERY sucessful this year :) ). If she had first realized that she wanted to apply to these colleges in the fall, for example, it would not have been possible to visit until January and the whole process would have been much more complicated and stressful. We need to keep in mind that is the students, not the parents, who earn their college acceptances through their hard work, their academic and extracurricular achievements, as well as their personal qualities. However, assistance from parents with planning and research is often needed to allow these deserving students to achieve this goal.</p>
<p>MotherofTwo,
You support my earlier points, as well. I could not agree with you more that Senior Year (fall) is insufficient for starting the process, on the part of a student -- not to mention the extensive research that was also echoed in my own post. Like you, I spent a long time doing research. Sadly, some students who invested 90% of their time in ED efforts, only to be rejected or deferred, are now hustling big time with virtually no time to prepare, & less to visit or investigate. We know 2 such students -- one deferred from an Ivy, one rejected from a selective school. It is panic city for both of them, & they will be making considerable sacrifices in January (missing dances, etc.) to correct the situation -- not to mention ruining the holidays for them.</p>
<p>But I think an equally compelling point for parents doing their own research is the aspect of maturity & perspective. Been there, done that -- for most of us (i.e., college choices), so some of us have learned from raw experience the good & bad of the process (& even though our own earlier process is not current with today's realities). Adolescents are simply not looking for, or looking at, or with the same critical eye, that adults are. Not to mention that a person of any age "forgets" aspects of one's own personality (i.e., takes for granted) that may be critical in inclusion & selection of college choices. A GC may know the more obvious traits of the student; a parent knows the intimacies.</p>
<p>"Nobody in my parents' families had gone to college. My dad went into the military right out of high school while my mother never finished high school. I know that they were ecstatic for my future and its possibilities, and probably worrying their *sses off, but, thankfully, they never showed it.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, I never felt stressed out at all during the process. I believe it was partly because I'm a pretty laid-back guy, but also because my parents never pressured or prodded. If there is one thing I don't respond well to, it's being prodded."</p>
<p>Am I right in assuming that you are not the child of immigrants? What I have noticed is that ambitious first generation college students who aren't kids of immigrants (particularly Asian/African/Caribbean/Eastern European immigrants) are the type of people who are highly self motivated and independent.</p>
<p>They neither want nor need their parents' help, and in many cases, their parents can't offer much help in terms of information, wisdom about the college process.</p>
<p>The students also can be laid back about the process because whatever acceptances they get -- whether that's the local community college or Princeton -- represents an enormous step up for their family.</p>
<p>My husband was first generation college. His parents are caring, people, who never graduated from high school. In fact, his mom did not finish middle school. My husband, a college prof, says he has never felt pressure about his choice of college or career because once he finished 11th grade, he had gone further in school than his parents had. That made him a success in his own and in his families' eyes.</p>