<p>Welcome to the new board, Jyber. Good to see your phosphors.</p>
<p>Folks, Jyber was one of the most helpful parents for me when I was new on the old board.</p>
<p>Thanks for the gracious welcome, TheDad. Who'd have thought we'd still be posting back and forth so much later? But to me the college selection process is as fascinating as some people must find football games, or shopping at the mall, I guess! </p>
<p>I'm glad things have gone so well for your D. Enjoy her time home!</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I didn't even tell them which colleges I was applying to until the applications were sent.</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'm sure it works for some people, but I find that a little sad.</p>
<p>The process has simply become far too complicated for the typical young person to navigate...I feel for the ones that don't have a parent actively participating...and echo Interesteddad's comment about the resulting "family time" being a added benefit.</p>
<p>Schwaby, I applaud your independence and self-direction, it will hold you in good stead at Princeton. But, as a parent, I want to know a little more about a decision that will cost me 40K/year. If financial parameters are established up front, then your approach is excellent.
Again, as frazzleddad points out, the average 17 year old may have difficulty navigating this process. DD matured through the process, and was much more self directed at the end than at the beginning, which after all, is the goal.</p>
<p>Jyber, that's the best incentive plan I've ever heard of, have to remember that one for the son!</p>
<p>" I didn't even tell them which colleges I was applying to until the applications were sent."</p>
<p>While I applaud independence, I, too, find the above sad. It seems the parents were treated simply as checkbooks.</p>
<p>Thanks for the welcome, Ohio Mom. I've been lurking in several forums for months, I confess. What put me "over the edge" & prompted registration was the lack of realism I have seen similarly communicated from well-intended types other than Sanchez herself. I strongly believe that my assistance to my D., coupled with my experience as an educator, made a difference in her overall presentation to the Ivies, as well as to her general strategy. She has received full scholarship offers from many non-Ivies; she does not want them. An Ivy is HER choice.</p>
<p>I do not think that parents should ever apologize for being involved in the application's process. Some people would like you to believe that being involved automatically translates into added pressure for students. I tend to believe it to be just the opposite. The more both students and parents know about the difficulty of the process and the realistic odds, the better for both parties. Parents who are not involved and play the role of monday morning quarterback can, in fact, bring a lot more pressure than the involved parents. I also think that that the college application process is not exactly the best tool to patch poor relation between parents and students. </p>
<p>Like Schwaby I did the bulk of the work on my own. I did, however, discuss my own iteration at great length with my parents who had divergent opinions. I was steadfastly opposed to my Mom's views on the great merits of an Ivy League education -as I considered her to be a victim of label shopping. I thought I would please my father when I announced my final choice to attend our State school, but only received the advice to seek different horizons. When I mentioned Business School, my dad -a business major- gave me a stack of books about Classics, ethics, and philosophy, and said, "Here, that's all you need for business. Learn to think and write, and you can always buy a CPA course by mail." </p>
<p>My parents did little in the mechanical part of the process, but had a great influence on my final choice -as well as a number of surrogate parents from CC! At the end of my junior year, I thought to KNOW my final decision. It is, however, very unlikely that a 17 year-old can understand everything that is involved in making the best decision. I am glad that I listened to other voices.</p>
<p>Lastly, regarding the crucifix comment ... I remember a little Jewish boy telling his mom about his visit to a Jesuit school: "Mom, those catholics, they do take their math seriously. There was this poor man who probably did not know much about math, and they nailed him unto a giant plus sign."</p>
<p>Hm...Here's what I did:</p>
<p>I wrote my own essays, though I asked my English major sister to read them over. She only changed one or two words, and gave one general suggestion.</p>
<p>I filled out my own forms.</p>
<p>My parents paid application fees and such.</p>
<p>My parents helped me narrow down my list (as I had too many schools on it)</p>
<p>My parents asked me to add two schools which I wasn't going to, which was fine by me, as long as they knew that I probably won't end up going. It's a waste of their $120.</p>
<p>We are in the middle of the process...I have filled out forms - basic clerical work...I have edited essays when asked...I have also made many suggestions on schools as S was flummoxed over what to look at/for when considering LAC's vs. Universities, for example...we have a long list of about 13 schools (four have already been applied to) and will edit list and finalize other apps over the winter break...$$$ play a big role so financial aid is key and S is fully aware that, if he doesn't get considerable aid elsewhere, he will be going to the local campus of our state U. He's OK with that...but is hoping for something more...</p>
<p>emerald kity,
On your "Why would you want to?" rhetorical question: Ditto.
If nothing else, I would never have wanted it hanging over my head, or getting in the way of my relationship with my D., that I changed or decided something against her will. Can you imagine, years later, a grown child confronting a parent: "If only you had let me [write my own app. or essay, choose my own campus.....(fill in the blank) ]. I might have gotten accepted to X college." In fact, another post in this thread answers this question by illustrating the fallacy of a parent overcontrolling the process, resulting in admission strictly to safeties.
For self-protection alone, no parent should invite eventual repercussions in this regard, let alone altering the student's future. It seems to me that families with good communication have nothing to fear; if it is made clear to the student that the college ultimately is his or her choice, the consequences of that choice or choices will also be his or hers to own, including errors in judgment. Such a "bad" (student) decision should not hurt an otherwise good relationship, while an unfortunate decision made by a parent could be fatal to that relationship.
I also think it is perfectly valid to state to a student that a family has just so many dollars (if it has) to support any college choice. After that, the choice should nevertheless be the student's (including the choice to surrender to post-college debt). That is very different, it seems to me, than forcing the student to attend College Y (including an in-state school) because of family finances. Again, I revert to the potential of the parent being forever haunted by the "If only" regret.</p>
<p>NEVERTHELESS, supporting the integrity & respecting the freedom of the S or D does not necessarily suggest parents bowing out of the search process, the sounding board process (per one of the Dads here), the presentation process, and MOST importantly (i.m.o.) the information-sharing. Even a brief look at the ignorance (I'm sorry) posted in some of the EA/ED results threads by disappointed students is all the proof I need that some parents and/or GC's were not doing the jobs for which they are most valuable. Student after student posting in shock about rejection or deferral, based on the When-Did-You-hear-That assumption that college offers are made mostly on quantitative input (scores, rank), or that statistical measurements supercede other factors. I wonder if their parents "left it all up" to those students. Where were those parents of those despondent students when it came time to explain (BEFORE application was made) that Early Decision is the college's trump card, not the applicant's, unless that applicant has a special feature that clearly the college seeks, beyond a fine record & fine achievements? Here's a clue, students: It was the <em>colleges,</em> not the applicants or their families, that originated the idea of Early Decision. This was a business decision that (therefore) the colleges saw as benefitting them, giving them more control over the composition of the freshman class -- specifically beyond the "stats" which are the major commodity of most of their applicants.</p>
<p>I have a lot to say about the ethics of the ED process (on the part of college administrators), which I'll do in another thread, & this is much too long. But to put it another way, how I <em>wish</em> someone -- any adult, including my own parents -- had gone to the trouble to fashion lovingly for my needs a package of options, strategies, & possibilities more suitable to me than the large public university which was so scary that it put me into an emotional crisis at the time. I probably belonged at an East Coast LAC, & I certainly had the brains for an Ivy. But people "didn't do that sort of thing" when I was of college age, unless you were somehow already connected to the East. Overwhelmingly, the parents on the CC board I see as wise & caring & respectful of their teen children. And I think I am optimizing, better than my parents did, the chance for my D to have a positive college experience from the beginning, BECAUSE I listen, BECAUSE I make suggestions, & BECAUSE I am involved.</p>
<p>
Schwaby, I applaud your independence and self-direction, it will hold you in good stead at Princeton. But, as a parent, I want to know a little more about a decision that will cost me 40K/year. If financial parameters are established up front, then your approach is excellent.
</p>
<p>I understand. My parents told me they could afford maybe 10 grand a year, tops. We aren't the wealthiest guys around. I pretty much told them that I wouldn't go to schools that cost too much or didn't give much financial aid. I was strongly looking at a series of "second-tier" colleges that were offering full-rides and stipends and such, but wanted something more. Fortunately, Princeton gave me a very generous grant package, so we'll be paying what amounts to in-state tuition for a top private school in the country.</p>
<p>Anyways, I plan to pay all of the money they used for my college tuition back to them after I get a job and my financial status is set. Maybe finance a couple of cruises for them, stuff like that. It's the least I could do.</p>
<p>Schwaby:</p>
<p>Congrats on doing such a good job of applying and congrats on getting into Princeton!</p>
<p>Thanks for answering Schwaby - I will take a guess after your second post, that your parents weren't as completely out of the loop as it came across in the OP. In fact, my guess is that they played a very important role of chauffeur, sounding board, monetary voice of reason and cheerleaders. Those are quite appropriate roles for parents. I'd add to that researcher and clerical staff as two other reasonable roles for parents, depending on the circumstances - you didn't need them. My daughter was much like you, except she hates researching things and she appreciated some clerical help early on while she was busy at school. When she realized I had sent something off, but didn't remember me telling her I was sending it (I truly did tell her!), that was the end of the clerical help except dropping things inthe mail.</p>
<p>
Thanks for answering Schwaby - I will take a guess after your second post, that your parents weren't as completely out of the loop as it came across in the OP. In fact, my guess is that they played a very important role of chauffeur, sounding board, monetary voice of reason and cheerleaders.
</p>
<p>Unfortunately, no. Your guesses are mostly off. </p>
<p>Chauffeur? We never visted a college. My situation (both monetary and geographic) made it impossible. </p>
<p>Sounding board? I never asked them advice or bounced ideas off of them. I did, however, have the good fortune of having a similar, like-minded friend applying to the same types of colleges to talk to. We bounced ideas and thoughts off of each other. Not to mention that CC and the internet were enormous helps also. </p>
<p>Monetary voice of reason? This is one thing they might have been. I went into the application process with the mind-set that my parents wouldn't pay a cent. Thus I was looking at colleges that had offered full tuition scholarships and stipends, but on a "lower level" than where I knew I could go. Eventually, (after a huge arguement, no less) they insisted on paying some of my college costs, and I could subsequently "aim higher." Still, the main reason I chose Princeton was due to its having the top financial aid in the country.</p>
<p>As for cheerleaders, I'm a pretty focused guy. If I want something, I work and eventually attain it. They learned to leave me alone years ago. The one time they inquired if I had any essays to do... I told them I had finished them all two weeks ago. </p>
<p>Nobody in my parents' families had gone to college. My dad went into the military right out of high school while my mother never finished high school. I know that they were ecstatic for my future and its possibilities, and probably worrying their *sses off, but, thankfully, they never showed it.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, I never felt stressed out at all during the process. I believe it was partly because I'm a pretty laid-back guy, but also because my parents never pressured or prodded. If there is one thing I don't respond well to, it's being prodded.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to sound like a prick or anything, I'm just stating that there are kids who chafe under or dislike parental involvement in an intesely personal process.</p>
<p>cangel,
ah, you were being an <em>executive</em> secretary.</p>
<p>Schwaby,
Hats off to you on Princeton. You're at the tippy-end of the academic and organizational distribution, it seems. Maybe you will do something in the State Department some day - we need people like you!</p>
<p>Heh. I'm looking for a multi-million dollar payout in my future. </p>
<p>Hope the State Department starts raising salary =)</p>
<p>"Hope the State Department starts raising salary =)"</p>
<p>Well, that's not going to happen, is it. Good luck with your own company, then!</p>
<p>Maybe I'll get rich first and then transfer over. </p>
<p>Actually, that's what I always thought of doing. Best of both worlds: Money and Power
=)</p>
<br>
<p>I know that they were ecstatic for my future and its possibilities, and probably worrying their *sses off, but, thankfully, they never showed it.<</p>
<br>
<p>They were exactly where they needed to be in the process. Best of luck to you.</p>