<p>Y'all talk about the trouble ahead... but, until he's put a ring on her finger, I don't think he gets to call the shots. </p>
<p>Then again, I'm the one who can't understand why she's going to have to borrow $190,000 for 1.5 years of school... so maybe I'm missing something.</p>
<p>Clearly he is not calling the shots -- she's doing as she pleases which is fine until which time he does put the ring on her finger and then he's stuck paying off her debt. I have a feeling that ring or no ring, she's going to do what she wants. Whether it's 190,000 or something less is not the point -- the point is that she sees nothing wrong with digging herself into a hole that he seems to think she's not going to be able to get herself out of. I believe he's trying to make her see the light in hopes that, if she does, perhaps he might pop the question! However, I don't see that happening, and I think he should move on if he's really interested in settling down sometime soon.</p>
<p>Per my last post, I meant to say that he SHOULDN"T let her drag him down.....</p>
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I have no problem with me or my future spouse staying at home - as long as there are no school loans to pay. I come from a modest upbringing and can't stomach the thought of going to a fancy school, racking up debt, and not work.
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<p>I think you misunderstood my post. She'd be working, quite hard hopefully, but every cent she makes would go towards her debt, thus she'd be bringing nothing to the table. I did not mean she'd stay at home and you'd pay her debts. It would be a wash, similar to a man taking a wife who did not work. The question is how long would it take to eliminate her debt and could you be okay with supporting her in the mean time?</p>
<p>The thing you have to understand (and it would be good if she also understood) is that having such debt eliminates options later on. That includes where you can live (you will be able to afford much less to buy a house), where you work (many employers are closely scrutinizing credit reports) and how you raise your children (you may not be able to afford to have someone stay home with the kids even if it is what you want. You may also not be able to afford a good private school even if that would be best for your child).</p>
<p>such a large debt takes a long time to pay off and prevents you from saving and investing in retirements accounts when you are young enough to take advantage of compounding interest. Taking on debt to pay for an expensive, top-quality education may cost you the ability to pay for the same quality of education for your children.</p>
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<p>Does she have 3.5 years or 3.5 semesters? NYU is NOT $40,000/semester; it's $40,000/year. Ergo, she'll end up with about $90,000 debt, tops. Yes, that's a lot. If she gets a job making $60,000/year, she'll be able to handle it.....
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<p>Ariesathena: Above is a quote from my first post on how I came up with my numbers. Again, she will have been at NYU for 3.5 years (roughly 7 semesters). Secondly, she has 3 semesters left, but that is central to calculating the total amount of debt. Thirdly, NYU does NOT cost 40K. It costs 47K, which you can see for yourself off of the following link:
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/financial.aid/tuitiongeneral.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.nyu.edu/financial.aid/tuitiongeneral.html</a>
Important to NOTE: 47K does NOT account for summer housing, summer tuition, or transportation, all of which you get financing for through your lenders. Secondly, the 47K assumes the cheapest style of dorms (ie 3 room/suite mates, and my gf has a single which is signficantly more expensive. With all of those adjustments, I would pad the 47K/academic year up to around 65K/calendar year. NYU probably gives her a few grand in grants, so that's why I assume 60K/year. Sure, I could be off a bit - but the bottome line is that the sticker price of NYU is not 40K/year! Not sure how you got 90K of debt. I predict something around 200K +/- 15K. </p>
<p>BTW, I WISH someone can prove me wrong here, and that her costs are 90K I would love to know that I'm missing something major, but just can't seem to find it. Furthermore, even with 90K, I just don't see how she could make it work on an undergrad salary. It may be possible, but you would need to live like a pauper. 200K is just impossible no matter how you see it. Please remember that there is only sooo much you can command in salary after undergrad with no work experience. </p>
<p>I personally feel that undergrads should manage to keep their total debt to <40K for a bachelors degree - but that is my opinion.</p>
<p>Thoughts anyone?</p>
<p>Yeah. Why an extra $15,000 of debt per year? A single costs what, an extra $1,000/year? Summer tuition costs what, $4,000? A place to live over the summer + food & expenses = $3,000, tops? </p>
<p>If she's living in dorms, why would she be paying for transportation?</p>
<p>Wouldn't she also be working during the summer and offsetting some of the costs?</p>
<p>Question for you: you're an autonomous adult. Would YOU put up with the grilling you are giving her? </p>
<p>Frankly, and maybe it's because I'm stubborn, but I wouldn't put up with someone telling me what to do and condescending to me (implication is that she needs you to show her how the big, bad, scary world works). I'm an adult, and if you don't like the way that I run my life, then you're more than welcome to not be a part of it.</p>
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<p>6% would be nice, but this is what I found:
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/financial.aid/loans-payplans.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nyu.edu/financial.aid/loans-payplans.pdf</a></p>
<p>Ariesathena: Looks like most of the federal loans are at 6.8%, and most of the private ones are above 7%. Since she has no co-signer, her rates are even higher. I think she has a signature loan from Sallie Mae, and she pays 1% above the prime rate (which was 7.75% at May 2006) with her "good" (but not excellent) credit rating and having no co-signer. </p>
<p>So my friend, her rates are not as low as 6%. Actually, this was a SHOCK to me as well, for I thought educational loans had a very low rate. My own digging proved me otherwise.</p>
<p>As usual, I hope I'm wrong here...</p>
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<p>If she's living in dorms, why would she be paying for transportation? ...
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<p>Ariesathena: Take a look here.
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/housing/payments/rates.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.nyu.edu/housing/payments/rates.html</a></p>
<p>The dorm rate assumed in the NYU buget of 47K is 9,780 for the academic year. A single is more like 17,820 for the academic year. That is a difference of 8K just there. Plus you have to pay for the 3 months of living for the summer. Even if you live on campus, there are STILL transportation expenses, such as the cost to visit your family a couple of times/year.</p>
<p>Look, I'm not TRYING to sound like a pessimist, but I have learned (through the school of hard knocks) that it takes WORK to be a realist. It is VERY easy to be CASUAL (ie "A single costs what, and extra 1K/year?"). It is much more difficult to spend time and energy to really dig and make INFORMED decisions. </p>
<p>I would hope that other mature adults on this board would agree that this is the responsible way of looking at the situation. It is not meant to be overbearing or controling. Sometimes it is hard to face reality - but if you don't it WILL catch up to you.</p>
<p>BTW, she will finish undgrad at 30 plus my projected 200K in debt. </p>
<p>Not exactly "young" to start your career - unless you are an orthopedic surgeon.</p>
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<p>YES! There are many other areas (obviously) which make the relationship work...but then again there are areas that need a lot of work (like this one).</p>
<p>MG, the only person that thinks you're controlling and misinformed is Ariesathena. Sounds to me like she's been burned in the past! You appear to be a mature and sensible guy who has worked hard for what you have. You don't need to be entangled with someone who is living in a financial lalaland.</p>
<p>Ariesathena is way off base on several fronts, so stop defending yourself. Seems she would have you keep your thoughts to yourself, commute a couple of hours and live poorly while watching your gf make decisions you know will hurt you both in the future. But somehow it would be OK to express your fears if you "put a ring on her finger." Oh brother!</p>
<p>I agree with the posters who are telling you that this woman is probably not going to be a partner you will be comfortable with. She is making a very unwise financial decision and such decisions are likely to continue. I have seen this with many women, they overspend on everything. They have great houses and cars but mountains of bills they can't comfortably pay. Some people can live that way, but it doesn't sound like you'd enjoy it. Neither would I.</p>
<p>Also, it's a bad sign that she's unwilling to discuss this with you. Either she doesn't take your relationship very seriously or she doesn't know how to be a true partner.</p>
<p>Ialso think it sounds like overall her judgement is flawed. While NYU is a good school it's not a great school. She could have gotten an equal or better education for a fraction of the price. Tish or Stern might be worth it, but not arts and science. And choosing a single, which I imagine at NYU is far more than $1000/yr tells us she's just plain out of control and couldn't possibly be rationally considering the future.</p>
<p>Math Guy, I think you'll end up moving on. Sounds like you want to live a nice life, have a home before you're old and be able to give your kids a good life too. Find someone who shares those goals and leads a lifestyle that is condusive to achieving them.</p>
<p>My student loans are 6%. I have a friend who consolidated (a few years ago, granted) at 2.75%. </p>
<p>With some loans, you pay MORE in interest if you have a co-signer.</p>
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<p>I live in Manhattan (in a good area below 96 street) and have a 50 min commute (one way, door to door) !</p>
<p>Most of the execs in my office have a 1.5 hr commute at a minumum as they live in nice areas, have nice homes, kids, etc. My only point is that a 2 hour commute is really not that out of line.</p>
<p>Me personally: I HATE long commuting time. I think I have a long commute now. The way I see it, is that it is almost 2 hours of my waking day, which is about 1/8 of my waking life. That's signficant to me! This will change soon though, and I'm moving closer to work (with a 2 min walk). :-)</p>
<p>I have no beef with fiscal responsibility. What I do have beef with is his attitude, and I would encourage ANYONE who thinks I'm the "only one" to scroll through previous posts. I've been very clear - if you don't like the way that she runs her life - and to all you married folks, it's her life; they are DATING (by his admission, "on and off") - then he can happily get out of it. Has nothing to do with being burned and everything to do with not being a simple-minded ninny who lets her boyfriends act like her parents.</p>
<p>I'm shocked that you cannot tell the difference between the message and the tone of the message, nor the difference between working as a partner and working as a superiour.</p>
<p>Do I think that she's making good choices? Objectively, no, but 1) I'm not her and 2) MathGuy ADMITS that he has no, repeat NO, idea of how much this is costing her. He's guessing. Maybe accurately. Maybe the "small" grants are more than he thinks. Maybe if she pays for one or two years, her finaid package changes and she's independent and gets a lot more. </p>
<p>All I can comment on is his attitude, which is completely controlling and patronising.</p>
<p>Math_guy I sympathize with your situation but your gf is a grown woman. Either you can support the desicions that she makes or you can not. A lot of marriages brake up over each persons different views on debt and money. It sounds like she really wants to go to NYU and thus is willing to take on the debt. If you can not support this decision I would suggest that you do not make any future plans for your relationship. If you do decide to marry her you can still choose to keep your money seperate and thus you do not need to take on her debt. She has somehow made it this far so give her some credit. I know you are trying to help her but you have to be realistic about both of your long term goals if she does not mind a huge debt and you do...</p>
<p>Hey Guys,</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for your advice. Of course, I have thought about what you say about moving on, finding someone else, etc., but that is not always easy to do when you are caught up in the situation. Also, Im trying to get a sense as to how bad this could be. </p>
<p>My GF keeps on saying, Itll be OK dont worry, you just watch. But I think, How? How much can an undergrad REALLY make as a first job? I would say 60 tops. Stern graduates are getting on the average of 52K:
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/careerdevelopment/survey/2005/fulltime.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.nyu.edu/careerdevelopment/survey/2005/fulltime.php</a></p>
<p>I would say she would be VERY FORTUNATE to get a job that pays 60K. </p>
<p>Even at 120K, these loans are crippling (in my opinion). And how many people actually make >120K in their entire life?</p>
<p>What do you guys think?</p>
<p>Maybe I should wait till she graduates and see how she handles the situation. That is over one year away, and I would be passing up the possibility of meeting others. </p>
<p>BTW, she does know that this is a big topic for me. She also knows that I feel that it is important to discuss these issues, for as you correctly point out, many marriages end because of money issues.</p>
<p>I told her that until we can move fwd on this front, I will not feel close to her and will be receptive to other women and/or end the relationship. She is actually quite bold, and says that I can do whatever I like (including dating others). She feels like I am THE one, and that I WILL end up with her. She is NOT worried about me leaving her, and she says that I can date other women. </p>
<p>In a nutshell, she is a nice girl, and is holding on tight while giving me a lot of freedom. It's hard to walk away.</p>
<p>Besides this - I'm a nice person. I care about people that come into my life. Regardless of what happens with us, I think she is headed for a landmine and want to steer her clear of it. I just don't know what she can do at this point.</p>
<p>You already told us she's a science major and not a great student or a go getter. I would not expect her to be in the top range of salaries comming out of undergrad.</p>
<p>Aries, where do you see controlling? MG wants to be serious about this girl and has reasonable fear regarding how she handles money. Money is the number one cause of divorce. A controlling guy would have issued an ultimatum he wouldn't be on line seeking opinions. He would have insisted on knowing the numbers.</p>
<p>What do you do when you have a close friend, male or female, who you fear is making a serious mistake that will negatively impact their life for a long time?</p>
<p>It is totally normal to tell your gf how concerned you are in such a situation. He would be a wimp if he didn't.</p>
<p>Bobby, he has every right to be up front with her but at the same time she has every right to disagree with him.</p>
<p>Math_guy,</p>
<p>Do you ever read the MSN money board...I would go there and ask about your issue. The posters are for the most part very helpful and have lived with both different scenarios. They can maybe offer some ways to cut the debt issue.</p>